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Made in es
Capable VF-1J Valkyrie Junior Officer






 H.B.M.C. wrote:
If Alpha Strike was map based I'd be all over it, but alas, it is not.


Actually Alpha Strike supports both hex maps and mapless games. I have not played it without a map, but it works properly with one.



   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan






State of Jefferson

I played battletech for the first time in 26 years last night. That damn game is so fun. No gamesmanship. No I see you. No you don't. No this happens before that....

Why did I ever stop playing this game?

Our FLGS is starting a campaign. I am looking forward to it!
   
Made in us
Leutnant





Louisville, KY, USA

I'm pretty much in the same boat. Haven't played since the release of the original TRO 3050, but have kept tabs on the game the whole time. Starting to rebuild my collection, starting with the Unseen necessary to field Cranston Snord's Irregulars. Luckily, there's a solid group locally, so it'll be easy enough to start getting in some games.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






 Formosa wrote:
as much as some may disagree, a battletech style xwing game would be the best way to go, £30 for one mech with its cards, quirks, named pilots, variants etc. All lend themselves very well to that format, you could even do £20 for a light, £30 for a med, £40 for a heavy and £50 for an assault, people will pay it, look at 40k, Star Wars armada etc.

This sounds much like the defunct MechWarrior game (pre-painted, plastic, click bases), which almost killed the franchise a number of years ago. I know if they moved totally to an X-wing business model, it would absolutely destroy my interest in the game. Of course, I'm an old-school BT player, so I may not be the current target audience.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
If Alpha Strike was map based I'd be all over it, but alas, it is not.



Huh. My buddies and I almost never used the map, and used 3D terrain instead. I never liked the look of playing on the hex maps. To each their own.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/29 17:25:55


 
   
Made in us
Charging Cold One Rider






 mdauben wrote:
 Formosa wrote:
as much as some may disagree, a battletech style xwing game would be the best way to go, £30 for one mech with its cards, quirks, named pilots, variants etc. All lend themselves very well to that format, you could even do £20 for a light, £30 for a med, £40 for a heavy and £50 for an assault, people will pay it, look at 40k, Star Wars armada etc.

This sounds much like the defunct MechWarrior game (pre-painted, plastic, click bases), which almost killed the franchise a number of years ago. I know if they moved totally to an X-wing business model, it would absolutely destroy my interest in the game. Of course, I'm an old-school BT player, so I may not be the current target audience.


And that is Catalyst's problem. They have a dedicated core of players. Players that have stuff, some of them (like me) have a LOT of stuff. They cannot afford to alienate those players unless their new version is so amazingly good that it is guaranteed to make HUGE money. And that guarantee does not exist in the gaming world. If CGL tried that and it didn't work, Battletech dies. And no one wants that.

27th Member of D.O.O.M.F.A.R.T.
Resident Battletech Guru. 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Gun Mage





Washington State

You stopped playing Classic Battletech because the game is slow. It's non-dynamic. The speed of action is about the same pace as a game of chess. It's typically played on a flat, featureless small board (unless you are lucky and have some 3d hex terrain laying around). You fill in bubbles on a bubble sheet-- a horribly antiquated game mechanic from the 80's that slows the game down even more. You also stopped playing the game because one head shot and your mech was pretty much done. If you play a lance vs. a lance, you'll be playing 5-6 hours, if not longer depending on the tonnage. Player built mechs are far, far superior to anything in any of the manuals- and it always made me wonder why the mechs in the books were so bad, or why the construction rules allowed for such better mechs. The models themselves typically looked boring as with little to no detail and a scale that was all over the place. At least Catalyst is addressing some of that with it's plastic mechs.

You could also be one of those players that thinks Clans broke the game. Certainly stepping into the later manuals with quad mechs and proto-mechs left a sour taste in my mouth. "What do you mean that 4 ton Orc just blew the head off my 50 ton Centurion???" That's when I stopped playing.

What killed Battletech ultimately was inept management, greed, and over licensing by FASA that finally self destructed and declared bankruptcy.

Mechwarrior (Hero clicks version of Battletech by Wizkids) introduced the Battletech universe to a whole new generation of gamers who did more to expand and push the boundaries of Battletech then any other single company in the 00's. What killed Clickytech was Wizkids poor management of the game. Wizkids never plans for a game to last beyond a year or two, and it was obvious Clickytech exceeded their expectations but they failed to leverage it beyond 2006 (the game premiered in 2002). 2007 and the release of the "Action Packs" killed the game.

Battletech is still a fine game, and many of its mechanics can still be seen in other games, so it had a heavy influence in the table top gaming industry. However, with so many companies owning a piece of the IP of Battletech, I doubt we'll ever see an "Official" Battletech game with new mechs anytime soon. Consider: Harmony Gold just loves to sue any company with anything related to the "Classic" mechs, Microsoft, EA, Piranha Games, now Harebrained Schemes, Wizkids, Catalyst Games, Ironwind... they all have a piece of the license for Battletech. And from the way I understand it, they all owe royalties to each other when they come out with anything new. So while we'll see a game of Battletech, it'll never have the "classic" mechs and nothing new beyond what has been already made... Piranha Games startled everyone when it made the first, all new, never before seen Battlemech in the game in close to 10 years, and the hoops they had to jump through, the companies they had to get the approval of (Hasbro? Really? Because they own Wizards of the Coast and Wizards of the Coast owned the rights to the collectable card game from the late 90's???), and to finally get the mech in the game. It's bonkers, and why any company that gets a license for Battletech is walking through a minefield.

Kara Sloan shoots through Time and Design Space for a Negative Play Experience  
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






 Tamwulf wrote:
You stopped playing Classic Battletech because the game is slow.

Its hard to argue with this. Classic BT is slow due to the level of detail in the system. I used to actually love the game for just this reason, but as I have gotten older I appreciate more and more to not needing an entire day (or more!) to finish a game.

Mechwarrior (Hero clicks version of Battletech by Wizkids) introduced the Battletech universe to a whole new generation of gamers who did more to expand and push the boundaries of Battletech then any other single company in the 00's.

All I can speak about is my own personal experience, but at my FLGS MechWarrior and the accompanying Dark Ages storyline killed BattleTech in much less than a year. The models were terrible, the game mechanics were terrible, and the background story was terrible.

I doubt we'll ever see an "Official" Battletech game with new mechs anytime soon.

Not sure what you are talking about here? Alpha Strike, a "new" BattleTech game was introduced not that long ago. New miniatures and new TROs and Source books are released by IWM and Catalyst on a regular basis.

Consider: Harmony Gold just loves to sue any company with anything related to the "Classic" mechs,

Luckily, if nothing else, Harmony Gold's license for the IP is expiring in a year or two and it seems unlikely they will be able to renew it.

   
Made in us
Walking Dead Wraithlord






I always liked the idea of Battletech. I played it in the 90's with the starter box. A year or two ago I got a bug to build my own version of Battletech, and I did. I gathered 150+ mechs and got some games in. It was good fun, but I found myself just lamenting the terrible state of Battletech miniatures. The plastics are horrid, the metals are horrid AND expensive. The 3D printed ones are beautiful but equally expensive and there's a lack of range.

In the end I just dumped it...there simply wasn't enough support to make the game as attractive/engaging as I wanted. Same news unfortunately for Robotech since Siembeda's a crook. I wish someone would take over Battletech, clean-slate it and start fresh - introduce actual good sculptors and give plastic modular kits, etc.

It's a tremendous IP that just sits like a puddle. I will say I've enjoyed the Battletech video game tremendously though - they've done a brilliant job with it so far. An excellent modernized Battletech - though I'd rather have that on the table.

 
   
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Dakka Veteran





I've never quite figured out why mech combat is kind of a non-genre in tabletop. It's like the industry can't move past battletech, but battletech itself can't keep up with the industry. Always been a source of frustration, as mechs in general have so much potential to take advantage of all the best features mini gaming has to offer.
   
Made in us
Charging Cold One Rider






Ah...A lot of good news on the Battletech front just dropped. Here's some info:

New Intro Box hopefully out by the end of Q2. With those new minis. And for those getting ready to ask, no those minis will NOT be sold separately.

New print runs of ALL core books. These will be staggered, starting with Total Warfare.

Alpha Strike Rulebook and Companion combined into one book called Alpha Strike: Commander's Edition. Will be updated with errata. Again, out by end of Q2.

New Mapsheets going to print for those that like that. Additionally, PDF files for printing off terrain editions. Think like the Hex Packs, but you print what you want.

Story line advancement begins in earnest this year.

As with most of this, expect it to all start dropping around Con season.

An interview with Battletech Line Developer Brent Evans will show up on sarna.net in the next week or two. I'll let you know more when I'm allowed to tell you!

27th Member of D.O.O.M.F.A.R.T.
Resident Battletech Guru. 
   
Made in gb
Combat Jumping Tiger Soldier




North Wales

Good news, everyone!

It's great to see things getting into gear, finally. Sure, it's not a massive release of things compared to other game systems when a new edition comes out, but things have to be treated very conservatively - you don't get to mess with Battletech!
   
Made in us
Skilled SDF-1 Pin-Point Barrier Jockey





Mississippi

"New minis" - are those the revised versions of the unseen mechs or something else?

It never ends well 
   
Made in gb
Combat Jumping Tiger Soldier




North Wales

I did save a few photos of prototype models that I'd found, this one has a fair few of the new ones.

Spoiler:
   
Made in us
Shas'o Commanding the Hunter Kadre




Missouri

Those look nice, but won't be sold separately? And will they do any more in the future that will be available outside the intro box or is this it?

 Desubot wrote:
Why isnt Slut Wars: The Sexpocalypse a real game dammit.


"It's easier to change the rules than to get good at the game." 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Gun Mage





Washington State

 Sidstyler wrote:
Those look nice, but won't be sold separately? And will they do any more in the future that will be available outside the intro box or is this it?


Catalyst only makes Plastic mechs, and they come in a box set of Lances. So far, only a few Inner Sphere mechs have been made.

This news is a bit... underwhelming. It's just repackaging of product that already exists. Nothing new except the plastic mechs, which the prototypes look fantastic, but the scale looks wrong again. That could just be the angle of the shot though, and they are prototypes, which are typically made much larger then production (2Ups).

New map packs are like the cheapest, easiest "new" thing Catalyst can make for the game. , anyone with Adobe Illustrator can make a map!

I like the rumor about advancing the story line, but from where? Catalyst has been very cagey about where their timeline is. While they have rules for Clan Tech and the Clan Mechs themselves, it feels like Catalyst would just like to keep the game pre-3050 and forget all about the Clans. Or maybe this will be Catalyst finally stepping into the 3050's and giving us Clan Mechs in plastic, something that a lot of fans have been requesting since the first "new" Introductory Box Set that Catalyst made back in 2007 (yes, Catalyst has had the license for over 10 years now...).


Kara Sloan shoots through Time and Design Space for a Negative Play Experience  
   
Made in us
Skilled SDF-1 Pin-Point Barrier Jockey





Mississippi

Hmm... I notice that the Warhammer, Archer, Rifleman, Wasp, Pheonix Hawk, Crusader and Marauder are not present. Did HG step in and force Catalyst to drop the Macross-style mechs?

Also, no Scorpion or Goliath?

It never ends well 
   
Made in us
Second Story Man




Astonished of Heck

HG did bring in a lawsuit against numerous parties which included Catalyst, Harebrained Schemes, and Piranha Games. Interestingly enough some of the claims were... rather ridiculous in their image relationships.

Some of the comments I have made and seen on the BT forum were:

Comparing the Locust to the Marauder? The Shadow Hawk to the Crusader? comparing the Shadow Hawk to the Archer (which is even more hilarious)? It's the Atlas that's being compared to the Crusader (despite Atlas being a completely original design).

But right now the case is waiting on the judge's decisions on a few motions, one of which is out-right dismissal with prejudice.

Are you a Wolf, a Sheep, or a Hound?
Megavolt wrote:They called me crazy…they called me insane…THEY CALLED ME LOONEY!! and boy, were they right.

Rules assessments I present do not reflect a consideration of any specific group, but only on the written word which we all share. 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






 Mattlov wrote:
New Intro Box hopefully out by the end of Q2. With those new minis. And for those getting ready to ask, no those minis will NOT be sold separately.

Does this represent a stated change? I know previously it was said that the plastics in the new box set would be released by Catalyst first, but after that I thought they said at least some would be released by IWM in pewter.

New print runs of ALL core books. These will be staggered, starting with Total Warfare.

Just new print runs, or updated books?

Alpha Strike Rulebook and Companion combined into one book called Alpha Strike: Commander's Edition. Will be updated with errata. Again, out by end of Q2.

Good news! I'm leaning more and more to playing Alpha Strike over Classic BattleTech so I'll be all over this release.

New Mapsheets going to print for those that like that. Additionally, PDF files for printing off terrain editions. Think like the Hex Packs, but you print what you want.

I'm more a 3D terrain kind of guy, but I know a lot of people like the maps and they are getting increasingly hard to find on the second hand market.

Story line advancement begins in earnest this year.

More good news. Storyline development is fun in and of itself, but it also usually means new 'Mech designs!
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




I recently tracked down an original Battledroids game (aka Battletech Fist Editon) that was in unplayed condition. I wont deny it: it wasn't cheap. The models of the Shadowhawk and Griffin (v1) were assembled terribly, but I actually had extras of the original Dougram kits so I replaced them.

I played Battletech Second Edition a long long time ago, and wasnt a big fan. I knew they were using robot designs from others shows I actually grew up watching when I lived in Asia. But there really was little strategy in the game. It was essentially 'everyone move to the center of the board and start shooting'. But something has stayed with me all these years so I tracked down a nice copy of 2nd edition, and then hunted down all the scenario box sets with the models that TCI released. Managed to get them all. I was more in it for the scenarios than the models.

By the way, if you have never seen these:

https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/8780/battle-stanrey
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/14165/battle-kalnock

They pre-date Battletech, and since TCI was importing them and providing briefly translated rules, I am quite sure FASA used these as a basis to develop Battletech. So no Dougram, no Battletech as we know it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/05 18:56:29


You probably shouldn't take me seriously. I don't even take myself seriously. Unless I am being serious. 
   
Made in us
Skilled SDF-1 Pin-Point Barrier Jockey





Mississippi

Yeah, I *think* I saw one of those games back in a Toys-R-Us in California back in the 80’s, but I wasn’t familiar with Dougram (outside the Robotech Defender models), so didn’t buy into it. Wish I had.

Good news for me though, between the old Robotech defender models, the exo-squad Robotech toys and some Gundam & Pacific Rim models, I have enough gear to run a 1/72 (or is it 1/48?) scale game of Battletech....

It never ends well 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




You might have seen some of the 1/144 figures. Someone imported these, and then put new boxes in English around the original japanese ones. So you had a box in a box. Very weird. Those were sold in Kay-Tee Stores and Toys R US for a bit, but I don't think the Dougram games were. I don't think TCI could have important that many of them for that kind of distribution. But I could be wrong.

You probably shouldn't take me seriously. I don't even take myself seriously. Unless I am being serious. 
   
Made in us
Charging Cold One Rider






Stormonu wrote:Hmm... I notice that the Warhammer, Archer, Rifleman, Wasp, Pheonix Hawk, Crusader and Marauder are not present. Did HG step in and force Catalyst to drop the Macross-style mechs?

Also, no Scorpion or Goliath?


Yes. HG is being a bunch of asshats. This is nothing surprising.

Sidstyler wrote:Those look nice, but won't be sold separately? And will they do any more in the future that will be available outside the intro box or is this it?


They will absolutely not be sold separately. Selling box sets lets more box sets get made. Minis only does not do this. And CGL wants to put out more starter boxes like Alpha Strike and Clan box sets.

CGL does not have a lot of cash available. They have to maximize the amount of money they make from each product to make more product. They don't have a big slush fund to keep production going at a higher rate while sales are low.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Tamwulf wrote:


I like the rumor about advancing the story line, but from where? Catalyst has been very cagey about where their timeline is. While they have rules for Clan Tech and the Clan Mechs themselves, it feels like Catalyst would just like to keep the game pre-3050 and forget all about the Clans. Or maybe this will be Catalyst finally stepping into the 3050's and giving us Clan Mechs in plastic, something that a lot of fans have been requesting since the first "new" Introductory Box Set that Catalyst made back in 2007 (yes, Catalyst has had the license for over 10 years now...).



The timeline being advanced is the current Fall of Fortress Republic and the rise of the ilClan story line. There will not be a "time jump" as was rumored for several years.

The products being put out in the pre-3050 era is to flesh out vague timeline information, and it is also guaranteed sales. Not a ton, but enough to keep money coming in.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/07 22:54:02


27th Member of D.O.O.M.F.A.R.T.
Resident Battletech Guru. 
   
Made in de
Fresh-Faced New User




If you play a lance vs. a lance, you'll be playing 5-6 hours, if not longer depending on the tonnage.


It probably depends on how often you play, how firm you are in the ruleset. I would say a 3025 lance on lance game doesn't take over 2 hours, unless you're using light mechs, those games take much longer if competent players are involved.

But there really was little strategy in the game. It was essentially 'everyone move to the center of the board and start shooting'.


No, really no. BT is all about the manipulation of odds. I hit you on a 6, you hit me on an 8. In 3025 proper movement is key to winning the game as the winner usually gets lower to-hits and melee attacks in that the opponent can't retaliate against (since you can decide with your move which leg you kick. Leg off is a major cause of mech death).

To be fair, the level of tactics drops off a little in the later timelines because the mechs become much deadlier to each other and movement is a bit marginalized compared to shooting. Which is why I don't really play a lot of 3050+. I find it less fun and more prone to plink spamming. You know, fat LB-X cannons, headplinking and Gyro-TACs. That sort of moves the skill from the board to the list, I'm not a fan of that. In a 3025 game you can usually see who the better player is since there aren't so many ways to screw up the game with a freak roll. Also there's no instant beheading at 22 hexes.
   
Made in gb
Been Around the Block




XuQishi wrote:
If you play a lance vs. a lance, you'll be playing 5-6 hours, if not longer depending on the tonnage.


It probably depends on how often you play, how firm you are in the ruleset. I would say a 3025 lance on lance game doesn't take over 2 hours, unless you're using light mechs, those games take much longer if competent players are involved.


I agree entirely with XuQishi. To claim that a lance-vs-lance game will take 5-6 hours or more is IMO utter nonsense, even for novices unless neither player has even glanced at the rules beforehand. For reasonably competent players in my experience a game involving a reduced company of 8 mechs per side should be realistically achievable in 2-3 hours and larger games are certainly not impossible in a similar time.

Pure light mech games are a different matter and will usually take longer since you tend to have lots of fast movement and jumping but relatively little firing and much less hitting in those and they will take longer, but even then 5-6 hours or longer? Not usually, no. Not unless you're doing something badly wrong, haven't even read the rules beforehand or are deliberately taking forever to decide how to move your 'mechs, in which case the problem lies with the players.

But there really was little strategy in the game. It was essentially 'everyone move to the center of the board and start shooting'.


Then frankly it sounds like you were playing pretty poorly. There should be far more to a typical Battletech game than that, certainly in 3025 games. Naturally, if that's what you all did then that's what your games will devolve into, but an opponent who uses tactics and the terrain to their advantage will have one who just "..move(s) to the center of the board and start(s) shooting" for breakfast.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/08 19:44:08


 
   
Made in de
Fresh-Faced New User




Pure light mech games are a different matter and will usually take longer since you tend to have lots of fast movement and jumping but relatively little firing and much less hitting in those and they will take longer, but even then 5-6 hours or longer?


It can happen. In 2014 I played a 2500bv a side game (i.e. both players had a light lance) that took 9 hours and 137 turns on Mekwars (which shaves a lot of time off since Megamek does all the rolling and damage stuff). That's my personal record in that regard and not something I'd like to repeat, but at the time I was very competitive, so was the other guy, and we fought over the 2nd place in the ELO ranking. No one was willing to give up and we both had only 8/12 movers, mostly Spiders and Locusts. That is a terrible combination since they both have mostly center-torso-mounted guns, so are easily avoided if you don't have initiative, but they basically only ever die if you can slow them down. There was a lot of ML shooting on 12s going on and also tons of turns with no shooting at all - we do enforce a house rule that says that after 3 turns of no shooting you're considered to be stalling and lose, so that people don't waste too much time, but setting up a successful assault needs a little preparation. I won the game, but only because the other guy miscounted a move once towards the end and lost a mech because of it. Could have easily happened to me, too. At that point we were basically fighting against the other guy's stamina, not against his units.
But that is a rare occurrence, usually our games take between 10 and 20 turns (say 60-90 minutes) to completion, i.e. someone loses or gives up.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/02/12 11:13:28


 
   
Made in gb
Been Around the Block




I'm impressed by your dedication, that is quite a game!

But as you say such games are a rarity and don't represent a typical lance level engagement.
   
Made in us
Charging Cold One Rider






I love Battletech and would absolutely hate playing that game.

27th Member of D.O.O.M.F.A.R.T.
Resident Battletech Guru. 
   
Made in de
Fresh-Faced New User




I didn't love it either .
This would never happen in the board game, though, as there would be human interaction going on and it would be boring as hell. Megamek is a different thing, it's a lot faster and you don't see the other guy, that is always a huge factor in gaming behaviour.
   
Made in gb
Andy Hoare




Norwich,England

The line developer interview is up on Sarna-
http://www.sarna.net/news/community-outreach-interview-with-brent-evans-lead-battletech-developer-at-catalyst-games/
   
Made in us
Charging Cold One Rider






Beat me to it...

27th Member of D.O.O.M.F.A.R.T.
Resident Battletech Guru. 
   
 
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