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 Iron_Captain wrote:


We could shoot down a US aircraft or two. Purely by "accident" of course. Not much the US can do back against that

Yeah. If the Israelis can bomb a military airport outside of Damascus, and the Syrian and Russian IADS couldn't knock them out of the sky, no way in hell you can handle our strike packages.

See this is why escalation is bad, and both sides don't hit directly at each other.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
A somewhat more realistic and less extreme way to send a message to the US would be for Russia to destroy the US-supported rebel forces in Syria.
Or we could supply advanced anti-air and anti-ship missiles to Syrian forces...

Yeah. You can't generate enough air sorties to cover Assad's crappy offenses. Anything with more defense than a civilian hospital gives you guys trouble. The bombing in question was because his allies came too close to the guys we're helping (and incidentally our advisors on the ground).

The sheer stupidity of this "We could destroy you.", "Nuh-uh, we could destroy you." prattle is mind numbing.

 CptJake wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:


We could shoot down a US aircraft or two. Purely by "accident" of course. Not much the US can do back against that

Yeah. If the Israelis can bomb a military airport outside of Damascus, and the Syrian and Russian IADS couldn't knock them out of the sky, no way in hell you can handle our strike packages.

There is a difference between having the ability to do something and being willing to do something. Shooting down an Israeli aircraft is not something Russia is willing to do as it would create diplomatic problems that Russia does not want. If they want to hit Hezbollah, that is too bad, but so be it. It is not like Russia cares about Hezbollah.

 CptJake wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
A somewhat more realistic and less extreme way to send a message to the US would be for Russia to destroy the US-supported rebel forces in Syria.
Or we could supply advanced anti-air and anti-ship missiles to Syrian forces...

Yeah. You can't generate enough air sorties to cover Assad's crappy offenses. Anything with more defense than a civilian hospital gives you guys trouble.

The bad quality of Assad's forces is not really of concern to Russia. Again, they are useful puppets, but nothing more. But at least Russia's proxy forces have been far more effective than those of the US so far. And if you have any knowledge of military affairs (and I believe you do) then you know your second statement is false.

 CptJake wrote:
The bombing in question was because his allies came too close to the guys we're helping (and incidentally our advisors on the ground).

Yes, and after Russian diplomatic efforts tried to dissuade them from advancing failed. It seems the Syrian government doesn't have as much control over its forces as it would like to have.


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 BigWaaagh wrote:
The sheer stupidity of this "We could destroy you.", "Nuh-uh, we could destroy you." prattle is mind numbing.

Yeah. It is.
Apparently some people don't understand that use of force can be more subtle than immediately trying to destroy your enemy.

Top notch trolling, comrade!

Russia does care about Hez, Hez is providing a good chunk of the offensive ground capability.

DarkTraveler777 wrote:Top notch trolling, comrade!

Thanks.

CptJake wrote:Russia does care about Hez, Hez is providing a good chunk of the offensive ground capability.

But Hezbollah is not under Russian control, and therefore a liability as much as an asset. Hezbollah is more of an Iranian tool, and Russian and Iranian interests do not always align even if they share some common rivals.

The U.S. military launched fresh air strikes against pro-Assad forces in Syria, officials told Fox News Thursday.

The American strikes were the first against Assad positions since the Pentagon rained 57 Tomahawk missiles on the Shayrat air base near Homs. But the strikes confirmed Thursday were believed to be the first targeting Syrian personnel. According to the defense official, the coalition strikes targeted pro regime units operating in the vicinity of At-Tnaf. After a show of force to try to stop the pro regime forces was ignored, the strikes were mounted.

"The coalition commander assessed the threat and after shows of force didn't stop the regime forces and those forces refused to move out of the deconfliction zone, the commander on the ground called for the air strike as a matter of force protection," a senior US defense official told Fox News.

But the attack on forces does not reflect an escalation, the official said.

"There is no change in policy," the official said.

Wow. That is some mighty careful and selective wording used to describe that particular action.

I have read enough posts by Iron_Captain to see that he is blinded by the memories of the glorious Soviet Russia to have any grasp of reality today. The only people he could possibly be impressing are the ignorant.

Turkey shot a Russian plane down. Russia's response? Stopped tourists from visiting Turkey.

Israel of all people, bombed Syria, and Russia sat back and watched.

The US destroys an airfield while GIVING Russia a heads up, and they still do nothing to stop it except run like hell to get out of there.

The idea that Russia is going to do anything to really antagonize or even really stand up to the West in Syria is pure fantasy. If the US wanted the lights out in Syria and Russian forces eliminated, it would all probably be over in a week. And while you talk of shooting down a plane or two, give me a break, even the Iraqi's did that in Desert Storm, and look how that turned out.

Putin is trying to put on a show to the world that Russia is still a relevant, elite military power when in fact he is just showing the opposite. Instead the world has witnessed Russian forces killing more civilians than ISIS, shown disgust at supporting a leader who gases his own people, rolled its eyes at its smokey aircraft carrier and its accompanying tug boat, and watched Russian personnel run from tomahawks and making no attempt to stop them, if they even could.

Russia isn't impressing anyone. The glory days are long gone, and it will be a long long time before anything like them come back. But keep drinking the Kool-Aid.

KTG17 wrote:
I have read enough posts by Iron_Captain to see that he is blinded by the memories of the glorious Soviet Russia to have any grasp of reality today. The only people he could possibly be impressing are the ignorant.

Turkey shot a Russian plane down. Russia's response? Stopped tourists from visiting Turkey.

Israel of all people, bombed Syria, and Russia sat back and watched.

The US destroys an airfield while GIVING Russia a heads up, and they still do nothing to stop it except run like hell to get out of there.

The idea that Russia is going to do anything to really antagonize or even really stand up to the West in Syria is pure fantasy. If the US wanted the lights out in Syria and Russian forces eliminated, it would all probably be over in a week. And while you talk of shooting down a plane or two, give me a break, even the Iraqi's did that in Desert Storm, and look how that turned out.

Putin is trying to put on a show to the world that Russia is still a relevant, elite military power when in fact he is just showing the opposite. Instead the world has witnessed Russian forces killing more civilians than ISIS, shown disgust at supporting a leader who gases his own people, rolled its eyes at its smokey aircraft carrier and its accompanying tug boat, and watched Russian personnel run from tomahawks and making no attempt to stop them, if they even could.

Russia isn't impressing anyone. The glory days are long gone, and it will be a long long time before anything like them come back. But keep drinking the Kool-Aid.

Plus Putin may not want to reveal his AA capabilities.
Even if they could, pr could not. They pose a more stronger hand as a wild card and as a unknown quantity. If you know someone's ability you cam calculate. A unknown you cannot. At worst not expose your own bluff.

Its carrier is rather the relic but the nuclear battle cruser with its massive AA batterys and 20 + heavy anti ship missiles is a solid foe.
It was a potant fleet defense unit when it was deployed. Its heavy crew required meant it was withdrawn pretty quickly.

KTG17 wrote:
I have read enough posts by Iron_Captain to see that he is blinded by the memories of the glorious Soviet Russia to have any grasp of reality today. The only people he could possibly be impressing are the ignorant.

I have read enough posts by KTG17 to see that he is blinded by the memories of US world hegemony to have any grasp of reality today. The only people he could possibly be impressing are the ignorant.

KTG17 wrote:
Turkey shot a Russian plane down. Russia's response? Stopped tourists from visiting Turkey.

Of course. What else should Russia have done? Russia is not interested in a fight with Turkey. On the contrary, it is in Russia's interests to create a strong relationship with Turkey. Sanctions were strong enough of a message to make the Turks apologise eventually. The Russian government handled that situation very well and diplomatically.
If Turkey had shot a US plane down, their response would have been the same or most likely even weaker.

KTG17 wrote:
Israel of all people, bombed Syria, and Russia sat back and watched.

Israel bombed Hezbollah. Israel can bomb Hezbollah any day of the week without Russia caring in the slightest. Also, Israel has a huge ethnic Russian population. The Russian government considers maintaining good relations with Israel a very high priority.
Also, I don't get why Israel doing bombings in Syria should be any more notable than the US or Saudi Arabia doing so.

KTG17 wrote:
The US destroys an airfield while GIVING Russia a heads up, and they still do nothing to stop it except run like hell to get out of there.

Why risk antagonising the US? Again, Russia is interested in better relations with the US. Russia has the equipment in place to stop a strike like that, but Russia saw Trump's presidency as an opportunity to build better relations. Shooting down Trump's missiles would have ruined that opportunity. It is elementary diplomacy.

Also, the US did not destroy an airfield, it just damaged it a bit.

KTG17 wrote:
The idea that Russia is going to do anything to really antagonize or even really stand up to the West in Syria is pure fantasy.

What you don't seem to get is that military force is a tool of diplomacy. You only use military force when it serves a diplomatic interest. So far, using direct military force against the West has not been in Russia's interests. Russia wants to peacefully co-exist with the West, it does not want war. However, that can change if the West pushes it too far.

KTG17 wrote:
If the US wanted the lights out in Syria and Russian forces eliminated, it would all probably be over in a week.

Sooner, given the vulnerability of US forces in the area.

KTG17 wrote:
And while you talk of shooting down a plane or two, give me a break, even the Iraqi's did that in Desert Storm, and look how that turned out.

The Iraqi's managed to shoot down US planes? Lol. What an embarrassment.

KTG17 wrote:
Putin is trying to put on a show to the world that Russia is still a relevant, elite military power when in fact he is just showing the opposite. Instead the world has witnessed Russian forces killing more civilians than ISIS,

Blatant lies are blatant. But I have to say it is not surprising to see such support for ISIS in the US. Tell me, do you like being on the terrorists' side? What do you think you are gaining from it?

KTG17 wrote:
shown disgust at supporting a leader who gases his own people,

Who somehow still manages to retain the support of a large portion of his people and offer an all-around better post-war future for Syria than anything the West has been able to come up with.

KTG17 wrote:
rolled its eyes at its smokey aircraft carrier and its accompanying tug boat,

Smokey or not, it is still deadly enough. Though it is really the nuclear missile cruisers and submarines that you should be watching out for. Those are the deadliest parts of the Russian navy.

KTG17 wrote:
and watched Russian personnel run from tomahawks and making no attempt to stop them, if they even could.

No Russian personnel was present. Little running was done. The US would have never launched a strike if it risked hitting Russian personnel. War with Russia is one of the last things the US wants.

KTG17 wrote:
Russia isn't impressing anyone. The glory days are long gone, and it will be a long long time before anything like them come back.

For a country that isn't impressing anyone, the rest of the world still seems awfully afraid of it, judging from the many fearful articles in the US and Western press.
Russia is growing stronger, the US is weakening. Russia's power has waxed and waned for over a thousand years. It did so long before the US existed and it will still do so long after the US is gone. We are a patient people. We will wait.

KTG17 wrote:
But keep drinking the Kool-Aid.

It is a US beverage. You probably drink more of it than I do.

Looks like a US Politics thread, gets locked like a US politics thread.