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Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







Yeah, I did like how they got the Justice League doing their jobs.

Flash saving people.
Bats and Cyborg doing 'the mission'
The remainder doing the fighting.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




I’m not a DC fan, but I liked the movie. I liked the bad guy. It was like they were fighting Sauron. 10ft. Tall, one big weapon, took an alliance in ancient times to defeat him.

One thing I thought about afterwards was the studio has a Superman problem. The JL struggled in their encounters with Sauron, both times. Superman showed up and just curb stomped him in seconds. He had time to take a time out and go save an apartment building in the middle of the fight. I think it was all fine for this film, but I mean they are going to have to pass out a heavy dose of kryptonite to every JL bad guy from now on to even have a chance going forward.

But in the end I liked it.
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







I suppose the thing to keep in mind is ultimately, the main villain is nothing more than a lackey.

He's not even the fightiest of Darkseid's lackeys either, being more of a midground between Commander and stabbiness. You've got Kalibak as the stabbiest. - Plus whatever side you put Barda on, depending on the timeline of when you bring her in.

Then add Kanto and the Furies, plus, of course, Darkseid himself... I don't think we need to worry as far as any 'New Gods' storylines are concerned...
   
Made in us
Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces






Southeastern PA, USA

Yeah, Steppenwolf was always almost certainly intended to be a tomato can to get knocked over before Darkseid showed up. It's one of the issues you get when the plan changes twice.

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UK

 Easy E wrote:
I think they are still struggling with what to do with a stand-alone Superman film after MoS. I mean, what do you do with the guy? What story do you want to tell?


Given that the current stance towards solo movies at DC seems to be going for stuff that works as standalone movies with a very specific style and vision, I think a sensible choice would be something that sends Superman off into space, that way you can't just play the 'where's the League while this city block is being levelled' card. In a perfect world, I'd like to see an adaptation of the Geoff Johns story Superman: Brainiac (though with the ending tweaked as Jonathan Kent is already dead in this universe). The animated film Superman: Unbound did a good job with it, and the story is straightforward enough that a director could really put their owns stamp on it.

The other thing that story has going for it as movie fodder is that it pretty heavily features Supergirl, so if they want to bring a version of her into the DCEU then it would be the perfect opportunity. Alternatively, given that a good chunk of it is set in space, you could even throw in a Lantern or two or even someone like Martian Manhunter in there if you wanted something to further expand the universe.

I could definitely see them going for the President Luthor stuff down the line, but I think to properly serve the magnitude of that you need something some level of teamup to demonstrate that it's affecting the entire setting. Batman/Superman is the obvious one from that era of comics, the Public Enemies story, but even a Superman/Wonder Woman or Trinity teamup would work.

 
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka





West Michigan, deep in Whitebread, USA

Because as much as I enjoy the spectacle of the movie, it was depresso Clark, and his crisis of faith over killing Zod was a bit lost in the face of the potential hundreds or thousands of deaths fighting Zod ten minutes before must have caused.

Clark spent nearly the entire movie being the tortured hero.



"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should."  
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







Err... What...?

He smiled more in the first 30 seconds of the movie via flashback than he did throughout his last 2 films.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




I can't believe how wrong the critics are about this film.

Here are the actual issues: the CGI is subpar, especially compared to Thor: Ragnarok (I watched that like 2 weeks ago so it's fresh in my mind). The story is nothing spectacular, but it did have some nice twists that deviated from what I expected off the cuff.
Spoiler:
Resurrecting Superman, Batman bringing Lois Lane in as the "big guns" to help calm him, Parademons turning on Steppenwolf, etc
The pace of the movie limited a lot of character development.

All of the casting is great and the character portrayals do a great job at hinting at something more. Especially for Cyborg, we're just seeing the tip of the iceberg with him.

The only way we can ever solve anything is to look in the mirror and find no enemy 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





I enjoyed the movie, though thought Thor Ragnarok was an order of magnitude better. Also, I really prefer Grant Gustin as The Flash

One thing to comment on.

Spoiler:
The Flash was faster than Supes by a little bit with how Barry was dodging Supe's blows. It just wasn't by much...
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Who was the actor that played the bad guy/robber in the opening scene? The one with the big jaw.

The only way we can ever solve anything is to look in the mirror and find no enemy 
   
Made in au
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Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Wait, thought you meant Roose Bolton...

This guy, I think.


This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/11/20 01:54:38


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Made in us
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 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Wait, thought you meant Roose Bolton...

This guy, I think.




That is him! I kept picturing him in Heroes, but couldn't place it. Thanks.

The only way we can ever solve anything is to look in the mirror and find no enemy 
   
Made in us
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-






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 trexmeyer wrote:
I can't believe how wrong the critics are about this film.


You're not wrong there!

And as expected, if it made even a dollar less that 'projections', it was going to get the 'disappointment' and/or 'failure' label ASAP... oh well!


   
Made in gb
Is 'Eavy Metal Calling?





UK

I do find it quite strange that this movie has had a far more positive reception than BvS or Suicide Squad but has a lower opening weekend than any of the other DCEU films. While money certainly isn't everything, and there are a lot of other factors (Thor still being on probably has a significant impact, I'm not sure any of the others released this close to a direct competitor), I wonder why JL is a good $10 million behind the others when it's had the most positive reception besides Wonder Woman, audience-wise.

Is that large a chunk of the potential audience just burnt out on DC, or comic book movies in general? Is this release slot just the wrong time of year? Were MoS, BvS and SS more of a success than people want to admit? Is the film just too generic to appeal to the more casual audiences who assume (perhaps correctly) that it's just Avengers Again? (love it or hate it, BvS was something unprecedented which probably filled a lot of seats just on the promise of the name, and to a certain extent SS and WW were 'firsts' as well with a villain focus and female lead respectively). Or are people just still listening to critics even when it's pretty clear they're mostly talking rubbish at this point?

Not sure. But it'll be interesting to see how this does in the long run, especially if the more conventional style of Justice League actually makes less than the more original but supposedly unpopular BvS or MoS. Hopefully it just makes enough that DC can keep doing what they're doing.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/20 14:39:42


 
   
Made in gb
Mighty Vampire Count






UK

 Alpharius wrote:
 trexmeyer wrote:
I can't believe how wrong the critics are about this film.


You're not wrong there!

And as expected, if it made even a dollar less that 'projections', it was going to get the 'disappointment' and/or 'failure' label ASAP... oh well!



That's critics for you - worthless.

Hopefully see it this Friday when their are less (usually annoying) people in the cinema.


I AM A MARINE PLAYER

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Made in us
Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces






Southeastern PA, USA

 Alpharius wrote:
 trexmeyer wrote:
I can't believe how wrong the critics are about this film.


You're not wrong there!

And as expected, if it made even a dollar less that 'projections', it was going to get the 'disappointment' and/or 'failure' label ASAP... oh well!


I read an article (from Collider?) that called JL "DC's latest catastrophe." I came to the conclusion a while ago that negative, melodramatic headlines and stories about DC movies must generate LOTS of clicks. If you remember, the usual suspects also laid in wait for WW and tried to start trouble -- 'Armpitgate', etc. -- until that film turned out to be a smash hit and little was able stick to it.

Then again, I saw an article from UPROXX about JL's box office that pointed out that the film is liable to have some legs, given the generally good audience scores, the lack of competition between now and the SW premiere, and the holiday coming up this weekend. But for WB, I suspect it's not so much about the BO horse race, as it is about not harming the prospects of future films and the potential billions at stake there.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Mr Morden wrote:
Hopefully see it this Friday when their are less (usually annoying) people in the cinema.


Morden, I'm gonna guess that you'll actually like this one.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/20 15:22:09


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UK

 gorgon wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:
Hopefully see it this Friday when their are less (usually annoying) people in the cinema.


Morden, I'm gonna guess that you'll actually like this one.


Hopefully - Wonder Woman was fantastic and I enjoyed most of Suicide Squad so this looks like a good continuation.

I AM A MARINE PLAYER

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in gb
Soul Token




West Yorkshire, England

Saw it yesterday, and I enjoyed it--nothing earthshaking, but solid superhero action with interesting and likeable characters.

"The 75mm gun is firing. The 37mm gun is firing, but is traversed round the wrong way. The Browning is jammed. I am saying "Driver, advance." and the driver, who can't hear me, is reversing. And as I look over the top of the turret and see twelve enemy tanks fifty yards away, someone hands me a cheese sandwich." 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

 Paradigm wrote:
I do find it quite strange that this movie has had a far more positive reception than BvS or Suicide Squad but has a lower opening weekend than any of the other DCEU films.

While money certainly isn't everything, and there are a lot of other factors (Thor still being on probably has a significant impact, I'm not sure any of the others released this close to a direct competitor), I wonder why JL is a good $10 million behind the others when it's had the most positive reception besides Wonder Woman, audience-wise.

Is that large a chunk of the potential audience just burnt out on DC, or comic book movies in general?

Is this release slot just the wrong time of year? Were MoS, BvS and SS more of a success than people want to admit?

But it'll be interesting to see how this does in the long run, especially if the more conventional style of Justice League actually makes less than the more original but supposedly unpopular BvS or MoS. Hopefully it just makes enough that DC can keep doing what they're doing.


JL's 39% is indeed higher than SS & BvS 26-27%, but still less than half of WW's & T:R's 92%, and less than MoS' 55%. JL didn't have much competition, not even from Thor, so I'd have thought JL would have done better.

I suspect Warner's history of bad DC movies is what's turning people away, but maybe they rebound this week - Thanksgiving usually has a lot of movie traffic. Those DC movies were more expensive to produce and market, but less profitable at the box office, so not really a success. SS was an absolutely terrible film, F4 bad.

I think JL will be lucky to pull WW or BvS numbers, given that Disney has a Star Wars movie coming out Dec 14. With Lucas out, Star Wars is going to be Marvel good. IMO, Warner Execs have just ruined the franchise, and would have done far better to just let the directors tell their stories, even if it put JL off by another year or two.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/20 18:24:26


   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

I have to admit, the preview did nothing for me, and the DCEU has been lackluster so I am not rushing out to see this.

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Made in au
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





All the past JL films I've seen with a mate, we've double dated. He's not very interested in this one, he says he is burned out on comic book movies, and isn't that interested in Batman when he goes outside the street level stuff. I tend to agree, but I've still got to see it- I've never not seen a Batman film at the movies.


 Alpharius wrote:
And as expected, if it made even a dollar less that 'projections', it was going to get the 'disappointment' and/or 'failure' label ASAP... oh well!


My general rule is that critics who just talk about the movies, what was strong and what was weak, they're generally pretty good. I don't agree with all of them, but it's generally useful to hear them talk.

But then there's critics who pretend to be industry players, who make terrible analysis of box office returns* and declaring a film a huge hit or total failure (and never anything in between). They then go on to assume the assume a film is good or bad based on their opinion of its profitability, not the actual qualities of the film. Those critics are a total waste of time, and seem more interested in pretend insider gossip than in actual movies.

Actually, that exact same rule of thumb works for fans as well as critics.



*For instance, people are comparing the return for JL to the latest Thor movie, as if beating Thor means WB would get more money or something. It's a hopeless argument made by people who confuse cheering for a team with business. The key number for JL is the $250m to $300m budget, which means the film will need to make somewhere around $600m to break even, or if it doesn't reach that then it will have to sell a lot of Christmas toys.

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Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






I ignore "scores". x out of 5 isn't a review, and doesn't tell me anything useful about a film. Same goes for the aggregator sites. You need to actually read (or listen to / watch) a review, IMO, to understand where the critic is coming from, and then see if you agree with them. Some guy with a blog might give a film 1/5 because it's not "true to the source material", which is completely irrelevant to the quality of a film IMO.
   
Made in gb
Is 'Eavy Metal Calling?





UK

Aggregate sites, especially RT are worthless. When you consider that RT only take 'positive' and 'negative' scores, it means that a film with a 33% rating might be

a) a film that everyone agrees is meh, with most giving it a 5/10 and a third giving it 6/10

Or b) A film that a lot of people hated and gave 1/10, but a third of the audience loved and gave 10/10.

Now obviously that's a hyperbolic example, but it's clear that those two are very different movies with very different levels of appeal, but if you just go by RT as a lot of media seems happy to do, they'd come out the same.

With actual reviews, it depends entirely on the reviewer and whether I trust them to know what they're talking about. For example, if I want a rough idea of how a comic book movie is, I'd check someone like Chris Stuckmann on youtube or The Weekly Planet podcast or Empire magazine, competent movie reviewers who typically also have an understanding of the source material. By contrast, someone like the BBC's Mark Kermode might be the more accomplished reviewer and surely has a good understanding of film as a medium, but I get the feeling he's never read a comic in his life and therefore is approaching the film from a very different angle to what I'll be doing, therefore his review is worth less to me.

There's probably an element of confirmation bias there, but I also think a review from someone who has similar tastes to you is a better indicator of whether you'll like a film (or book/show/comic/album ect) than one from someone who doesn't. Especially with adaptations; to use JL as an example, a lot of the shortcomings as a film are balanced out by the fact that we've got a cast of characters that in most cases, walked right off their comic pages. There's a joy to seeing that which will matter to a comic fan and won't register to a general movie reviewer. Going even further, I'd be more likely to take the word of a friend who I know shared an interest in the film than a general reviewer, just because initial investment makes such a big difference to how you view a film.

All that said, I rarely bother with reviews before seeing a film anyway; if the premise/trailers aren't enough to convince me then I probably don't want to see it anyway, and equally, bad reviews have never put me off seeing something I wanted to. The only time it really comes up is with stuff that passed me by then shows up on Netflix or Amazon, then I'll do a bit of research just to make sure I'm not wasting my time with it.

 
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Earth

Watched it last night and while the story is all over the place at times, it was a bloody good romp, go see it and ignore the obviously biased reviews, this is not supposed to be a masterpiece, and it works well as a into to the DCEU.

Its not perfect, dont expect it to be !
   
Made in gb
Revving Ravenwing Biker



Wrexham, North Wales

Saw it yesterday and enjoyed a lot.
Spoiler:
And while I found some niggles (the exposition dialogue at the first few scenes were pretty clunky, and Steppenwolf's CGI rendition was pretty poor, and the purpose of the League seemed to be to amuse Steppenwolf until Superman showed up) the bonding of the team pulled it together. The sweeping shot of Wonder Woman perched on London's 'Justice' was an awesome intro.


   
Made in gb
Soul Token




West Yorkshire, England

This is a random observation, but one of my favourite scenes on reflection was the early one with the Amazons:

Spoiler:
Given that they were essentially redshirts with no chance (in-universe or out) of stopping Steppenwolf, there were some pretty badass moments there. And in a peculiar way, it felt progressive, since you very seldom see female characters in that kind of role--female warriors tend to be at least "henchmen" level in terms of dramatic importance, and when anonymous extras are getting blasted through to establish how scary a villain is, they're almost always men.

"The 75mm gun is firing. The 37mm gun is firing, but is traversed round the wrong way. The Browning is jammed. I am saying "Driver, advance." and the driver, who can't hear me, is reversing. And as I look over the top of the turret and see twelve enemy tanks fifty yards away, someone hands me a cheese sandwich." 
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Dallas area, TX

 Elemental wrote:
This is a random observation, but one of my favourite scenes on reflection was the early one with the Amazons:

Spoiler:
Given that they were essentially redshirts with no chance (in-universe or out) of stopping Steppenwolf, there were some pretty badass moments there. And in a peculiar way, it felt progressive, since you very seldom see female characters in that kind of role--female warriors tend to be at least "henchmen" level in terms of dramatic importance, and when anonymous extras are getting blasted through to establish how scary a villain is, they're almost always men.

And yet there has been some controversy about their costume design in JL compared to WW. In WW (directed by a woman) they are modestly armoured and do not show their mid-rift. In JL (directed by men), many of them have more exposed skin.

Take that as you will. Just an observation.

   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







That, however, is not the full story. - BBC have a good summary of it. - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-41983452

Don't get, they could have done better chainmail (well, leather) bikini's but, that snippy headline isn't right.

In every present day scene, the Amazons are armoured just as they were in Wonder Woman. If memory serves, some are significantly more so.

The chainmail bikini scenes are ultimately just blurry background images of a 5 second long flashback to thousands of years ago partway through the film.

However, all that is just a matter of framing the argument correctly. There is still definitely the very valid question of, why the flip did they feel the need to redesign armour for some blurry background shots in a 5 second long flashback to thousands of years ago.

But that doesn't fit a pithy clickbait internet outrage headline.
   
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Where ever the Emperor needs his eyes

 Compel wrote:
That, however, is not the full story. - BBC have a good summary of it. - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-41983452

Don't get, they could have done better chainmail (well, leather) bikini's but, that snippy headline isn't right.

In every present day scene, the Amazons are armoured just as they were in Wonder Woman. If memory serves, some are significantly more so.

The chainmail bikini scenes are ultimately just blurry background images of a 5 second long flashback to thousands of years ago partway through the film.

However, all that is just a matter of framing the argument correctly. There is still definitely the very valid question of, why the flip did they feel the need to redesign armour for some blurry background shots in a 5 second long flashback to thousands of years ago.

But that doesn't fit a pithy clickbait internet outrage headline.


Some of the Amazons guarding the passageway to the Motherbox were wearing the leather 'bikinis' or what ever people want to call them. It wasn't really something particularly stood out as 'omg how dare they!" rather more just that might hve been what they had on when they showed up, or it being a site of some significance maybe it was some sort of Priestess thing. Most of the Amazons, in the mordern fight, were wearing more armor than in WW though.
   
Made in us
Nihilistic Necron Lord






The only time I really took notice of extra skin on the Amazons were the ones “sealing the gate” and to me it looked less like sexy hot bikini time and more look at how Ripped these ladies are as they swing giant hammers around.

 
   
 
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