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Spoletta wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 Niiai wrote:
I was hoping for leviathan msu with carnifexes shooting heavy venom cannons to take out those high T targets.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Spoletta wrote:
Yeah i did the math, the stonefex inflicts almost 30% more damage on vehicles. Going by memory though, he was Str 14 AP3 D6 right?

How are the crusher claws doing in the comparison? Even with the handicap they are hitting on 4+ the turn they charge.

Worst, its 4 wounds (4.17 actually) to a Rhino, it doesnt get re-rolls, compare to 10 wounds (9.75 actually)
Edit: Its 16pts cheaper tho....

Screamer killer version does better thanks to the extra attack, +1 to hit and rerolling one (with the stratagem to reroll wounds). I get 8,5 out of the stonecrusher though, was he Str 14, WS4+ AP3 Dd6?

Look at the 1st post about it, its 7.5 wounds, the 2nd numbers were higher rolls to show the difference in good roles, i didnt mean to make it sound 9 wounds is average, its 7.5 wounds.

 Amishprn86 wrote:


No, they actually do the same wounds 7.5 (really its like 7.46/7.56 or something) to a Rhino, BUT thats without the Stone 4+ to do D3 MW's (compare to 1) and without Re-rolls on the D6 damage, on average without the CP re-roll with 3 rounds on charging (you take fleet to fallback and charge lets say) the Stonefex will do more over all.


]EDIT: Is the MST fex S6? or S7? I did the math wounding on 4+ for MST-fex. If its S6 then its only 4wounds and MUCH worst than the SoneFex[

New stuff today: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/10/31/codex-tyranids-preview-hive-fleet-adaptations-oct-31gw-homepage-post-2/

Looking at Gorgon, maybe im missing something

Ability:
You can reroll hit rolls in the fight phase for units with this adaptation that target units containing fewer models then their own

GW wrote:
There’s nothing worse than getting a key unit, such as a Hive Tyrant, into close combat and then rolling a handful of ones on its wound rolls. With Hive Fleet Gorgon, you’ll be able to ensure that your larger units don’t accidentally fluff a key round of combat, while allowing even smaller creatures, such as Gargoyles, to stack up wounds on your enemies.

How the heck does this ever helps a Hive Tyrant? If I charge my 1 models at 1 other model I don't get my reroll...so....

EDIT
Looking at it, they coped the ability of Hydra. so they messed up the article

Also, the abilaty of hive fleet gorgon is the same as hive fleet hydra. Also gorgon states 'they have poison, therefore... something else.' I think GW made a bobo.

However we have kraken wrong. They can roll 3 dice when they advance, and choose the best one. And they have the fallback thing.

So Kraken genstealers are good,

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/10/31/codex-tyranids-preview-hive-fleet-adaptations-oct-31gw-homepage-post-2/

Kraken can also roll 3d6 on advance and choose the highest. Nice for Genestealers!

Gorgon rerolls 1s for to wound.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ups, you sniped me.

Actually it is nice on several things. Short ranged weapons with assault. Like big blobs of gaunts. Run and shoot. Screamer killers also runs and shoots.

Yeah, but you will end up having the -1 to hit for advancing and shooting. But still the Kraken trait is the one to choose, when you want to be fast.

I still see myself running as Jormungandr though. The CP to move a squad across the board in the tunnels is pretty significant. And always having cover is pretty nice, too.

And i mean let's pause for a minute here.

50 conscripts was 150 points and could FRFSRF for 200 dice, while being immune to morale at their most OP point in 8th.

Now, 30 dakkagants, costs 240 points, and with the stratagem can fire 180 strength 4 dice, while being immune to morale. And, for 1 more CP i can deploy them in your face turn 1 with Jormungandr.

180 dakkagant dice (no rerolls) versus...

T3 targets = 60 forced saves expected. Notable targets: Celestine, Eldar, GEQ
T4 targets = 45 forced saves expected. Notable targets: MEQ
T5-7 targets = 30 forced saves expected. Notable targets: Razorbacks, wave serpents, taurox
T8 targets = 15 forced saves expected. Notable targets: Leman Russ Tanks.

Obviously not super efficient on the high targets, but against chaff these guys will clear screens like a boss. Also, if you catch a character out on its own, you could easily annihilate it. These guys could potentially strip 10 wounds off of Magnus in a turn if he doesn't have his invuln booster on.

And this many dice in your face demands a response, while simultaneously rendering things like Malefic lords impotent. Enjoy smiting my tiny bugs. Oh I also put Catalyst on them, so i'll be ignoring 1/3 of your mortal wounds. Hello.

Hormagaunts from Kraken become interesting, they can perform a first turn charge.

Advance 7+ doubled 3d6. Cast onslaught and charge. Even easier if you invest in AG for your gants. Then at your turn you fall back and charge even deeper in enemy lines. I like it.

Moving units in tunnels is good.

But I would like to point out thet pheromon trail does the same thing. At least if it is written as it is now. You do need to be Jormungandr to do this.

Kraken that has the 3D6 to move also has the advance stratagem:

'Stratagem: Opportunistic Advance (1CP)
Use in the Movement Phase. Choose a Kraken unit that does not have the Fly keyword. When Advancing you can double number you roll when determining how much to add to the unit's Movemnt characteristic'

That is quite good, if your run 5 or 6 you suddenly run 10 or 12. Very good for units with genstealers or with onslaught as Soletta pointed out.

Wait a second...Pyrovores!

You can do this with Pyrovores!

Actually this is an almost guaranted charge on everyone of our MCs, as long as you get AG.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Surprisingly walkrants are faster than flyrants now!
With a 5 on the 3d6 an AG walkrant will need a roll of 4 to enter the enemy deployment zone!

str00dles1 wrote:
New stuff today: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/10/31/codex-tyranids-preview-hive-fleet-adaptations-oct-31gw-homepage-post-2/

Looking at Gorgon, maybe im missing something

Ability:
You can reroll hit rolls in the fight phase for units with this adaptation that target units containing fewer models then their own

GW wrote:
There’s nothing worse than getting a key unit, such as a Hive Tyrant, into close combat and then rolling a handful of ones on its wound rolls. With Hive Fleet Gorgon, you’ll be able to ensure that your larger units don’t accidentally fluff a key round of combat, while allowing even smaller creatures, such as Gargoyles, to stack up wounds on your enemies.

How the heck does this ever helps a Hive Tyrant? If I charge my 1 models at 1 other model I don't get my reroll...so....

EDIT
Looking at it, they coped the ability of Hydra. so they messed up the article

Seems like they fixed it by now:

Hydra (Re-roll hits vs smaller units): Swarming Instincts allows Tyranids players to take advantage of the cheap infantry available to their army. Outnumbering the foe is simple with units like Hormagaunts and Gargoyles, and re-rolls to hit help make up for the fairly average Weapon Skill on most smaller Tyranids units.


Gorgon (Re-roll hit rolls of 1): There’s nothing worse than getting a key unit, such as a Hive Tyrant, into close combat and then rolling a handful of ones on its wound rolls. With Hive Fleet Gorgon, you’ll be able to ensure that your larger units don’t accidentally fluff a key round of combat, while allowing even smaller creatures, such as Gargoyles, to stack up wounds on your enemies.

Did they change it or did people misread? Advance 3d6 and pick the highest. Not advance 3d6.

So, kill or tie up a screen with 30 devgaunts from a raveners tunnel (Jorg strat) and bring 30 horms from a Trygon tunnel with a glands (And or make them behemoth). Follow up with smite spam from neuros to kill vehicles. With 5 neuros, that's roughly 1000 points. Still plenty of room to add a ranged element and objective grabbers. Rippers, regular gaunts, malanthrope, biovores, hive guard. Whatever ends up being most point efficient and capable of dealing with vehicle spam.

But alas the codex isn't here yet so this is just speculation.

Updated the OP. Removing Rumors replaced with fact.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Interesting to note, does anyone remember that rumor from a little over a year ago that Synapse was going to grant FNP? There was a image of a playtest rule or something and everyone said it looked like it was fake.

Now it's Leviathans Adaptation.

 Zimko wrote:
So, kill or tie up a screen with 30 devgaunts from a raveners tunnel (Jorg strat) and bring 30 horms from a Trygon tunnel with a glands (And or make them behemoth). Follow up with smite spam from neuros to kill vehicles. With 5 neuros, that's roughly 1000 points. Still plenty of room to add a ranged element and objective grabbers. Rippers, regular gaunts, malanthrope, biovores, hive guard. Whatever ends up being most point efficient and capable of dealing with vehicle spam.

But alas the codex isn't here yet so this is just speculation.

I've been doing something similar to this. I run 60 gants and 20 stealers on the board, have 2x trygons, 1 with 20 stealers and 1 with 30 devgants.

Works very well. Will work better with codex buffs.

Tyrant guards are going to be really good with kraken.
First turn charge with 6 guards means a lot now that they have 3 attacks. Rending claws, toxin sacs and AG. Will entagle a lot of stuff and be really hard to remove.

If you feel like it you can also take a swarmlord, propel himself in there and fight from turn 1 while being protected by guards.

For the Jor adaptation, do you count as having charged if you fail the charge?

 Traceoftoxin wrote:

 Zimko wrote:
So, kill or tie up a screen with 30 devgaunts from a raveners tunnel (Jorg strat) and bring 30 horms from a Trygon tunnel with a glands (And or make them behemoth). Follow up with smite spam from neuros to kill vehicles. With 5 neuros, that's roughly 1000 points. Still plenty of room to add a ranged element and objective grabbers. Rippers, regular gaunts, malanthrope, biovores, hive guard. Whatever ends up being most point efficient and capable of dealing with vehicle spam.

But alas the codex isn't here yet so this is just speculation.

I've been doing something similar to this. I run 60 gants and 20 stealers on the board, have 2x trygons, 1 with 20 stealers and 1 with 30 devgants.

Works very well. Will work better with codex buffs.

I guess what i'm saying is you wouldn't need the Trygon with the new stratagem to deploy your devgaunts.

Do you find your list is competitive now with those models? Do you also run the Swarmlord?

 Marmatag wrote:

 Traceoftoxin wrote:

 Zimko wrote:
So, kill or tie up a screen with 30 devgaunts from a raveners tunnel (Jorg strat) and bring 30 horms from a Trygon tunnel with a glands (And or make them behemoth). Follow up with smite spam from neuros to kill vehicles. With 5 neuros, that's roughly 1000 points. Still plenty of room to add a ranged element and objective grabbers. Rippers, regular gaunts, malanthrope, biovores, hive guard. Whatever ends up being most point efficient and capable of dealing with vehicle spam.

But alas the codex isn't here yet so this is just speculation.

I've been doing something similar to this. I run 60 gants and 20 stealers on the board, have 2x trygons, 1 with 20 stealers and 1 with 30 devgants.

Works very well. Will work better with codex buffs.

I guess what i'm saying is you wouldn't need the Trygon with the new stratagem to deploy your devgaunts.

Do you find your list is competitive now with those models? Do you also run the Swarmlord?

Hmm a Trygon is big, but can you put 30 devgaunts within 3" of raveners?

Well, it would allow you to use 1 trygon to bring 2 units IF the wording is that the unit brought by the stratagem only needs to be 'within 3 inches. If the wording is 'wholly within 3 inches' like the current Trygon rule then you'll need a unit of raveners instead. That'll save you about 120 points.

Spoletta wrote:
Tyrant guards are going to be really good with kraken.
First turn charge with 6 guards means a lot now that they have 3 attacks. Rending claws, toxin sacs and AG. Will entagle a lot of stuff and be really hard to remove.

If you feel like it you can also take a swarmlord, propel himself in there and fight from turn 1 while being protected by guards.

Am I missing something? Even with Kraken a TGuard will at most move 14" before the charge. I haven't played that many games but that dosnt seem close enough to make a turn one charge.

And yes it's actually easier to fit 30 gaunts within 3 inches of raveners because you can spread them out.

Spoletta wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:

 Traceoftoxin wrote:

 Zimko wrote:
So, kill or tie up a screen with 30 devgaunts from a raveners tunnel (Jorg strat) and bring 30 horms from a Trygon tunnel with a glands (And or make them behemoth). Follow up with smite spam from neuros to kill vehicles. With 5 neuros, that's roughly 1000 points. Still plenty of room to add a ranged element and objective grabbers. Rippers, regular gaunts, malanthrope, biovores, hive guard. Whatever ends up being most point efficient and capable of dealing with vehicle spam.

But alas the codex isn't here yet so this is just speculation.

I've been doing something similar to this. I run 60 gants and 20 stealers on the board, have 2x trygons, 1 with 20 stealers and 1 with 30 devgants.

Works very well. Will work better with codex buffs.

I guess what i'm saying is you wouldn't need the Trygon with the new stratagem to deploy your devgaunts.

Do you find your list is competitive now with those models? Do you also run the Swarmlord?

Hmm a Trygon is big, but can you put 30 devgaunts within 3" of raveners?

3 Raveners in coherency in a line gives you about a 14" x 7.5" space to fill up minus the raveners themselves.

Mr.Pengwinn wrote:

Spoletta wrote:
Tyrant guards are going to be really good with kraken.
First turn charge with 6 guards means a lot now that they have 3 attacks. Rending claws, toxin sacs and AG. Will entagle a lot of stuff and be really hard to remove.

If you feel like it you can also take a swarmlord, propel himself in there and fight from turn 1 while being protected by guards.

Am I missing something? Even with Kraken a TGuard will at most move 14" before the charge. I haven't played that many games but that dosnt seem close enough to make a turn one charge.

They move up to 20". Kraken for 1 CP doubles your advance dice.

The challenge here is making multiple detachments. With <Hive Fleet> being the keyword for Synapse, if you had multiple detachments you'd need to keep track of which synapse goes with which fleet.

My gut feeling is to make a battalion, and a spearhead. But, I would still want my units to be the same hive fleet for synapse.

Thrope
2x Trygon
1x Unit of 2 Dakkafex

Swarmlord
????
30x Hormagants
30x Devgants
20x Genestealers


Still leaves quite a bit of room

Spoletta wrote:

Mr.Pengwinn wrote:

Spoletta wrote:
Tyrant guards are going to be really good with kraken.
First turn charge with 6 guards means a lot now that they have 3 attacks. Rending claws, toxin sacs and AG. Will entagle a lot of stuff and be really hard to remove.

If you feel like it you can also take a swarmlord, propel himself in there and fight from turn 1 while being protected by guards.

Am I missing something? Even with Kraken a TGuard will at most move 14" before the charge. I haven't played that many games but that dosnt seem close enough to make a turn one charge.

They move up to 20". Kraken for 1 CP doubles your advance dice.

Ah thats what I was missing. Looks pretty good then.

Wow... yeah. Synapse is all Hive fleet based now. gak.

That will make multiple detachments hard.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
It says in its rules Living Bombs: "If you are playing matched play games, the creation of new Spore Mines is free, and Spore Mine's points cost does not come out of your pool of reinforcement points."

Clearly this is not referring to a new full size unit. The wording may allow it in the new codex, but I would not be surprised to see it FAQ'd away.

 Niiai wrote:
Actually it is nice on several things. Short ranged weapons with assault. Like big blobs of gaunts. Run and shoot. Screamer killers also runs and shoots.

It's best for flying hive tyrants I think - they can now fallback shot and charge every turn. Gargoyles too.

 Lance845 wrote:
Wow... yeah. Synapse is all Hive fleet based now. gak.

That will make multiple detachments hard.

IMO its a great example of "soft balance". You can do it, but things might get awkward.