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fluffstalker wrote: I know that Necrons only placed mid-tier, but I'm curious as to whether anyone has the top two or three lists?
Spoiler:
Daniel “Papa D” Hesselberg
Faction - Necrons
2000p
8 Drops
Super heavy detachment - Mephirit Dynasty
LoW Tesseract Vault (496), 4 x tesla sphere (4x0) [496]
LoW Tesseract Vault (496), 4 x tesla sphere (4x0) [496]
LoW Tesseract Vault (496), 4 x tesla sphere (4x0) [496]
Outrider detachment – Nephrek Dynasty
HQ1 Destroyer Lord (110), (Warlord) Warscythe (11), Phylacetry (10), Artifact - Nanoscarab casket (0) [131]
Elite 1 C’tan Shard of the Deceiver (225), 2 x star-god fists (0) [225]
Fast 4 x Canoptek Scarab (4x13), Feeder mandibles (4x0) [52]
Fast 4 x Canoptek Scarab (4x13), Feeder mandibles (4x0) [52]
Fast 4 x Canoptek Scarab (4x13), Feeder mandibles (4x0) [52]
Spoiler:
PLAYER NAME: Raphael Kubiak
ARMY FACTION: Necrons
TOTAL COMMAND POINTS: 7
TOTAL ARMY POINTS: 1993 pts
I find the terrain interesting. Does anyone know if the london GT considered these walls ruins? or were they impassable?
I really like how well it blocks line of sight in regards to height, and not being too huge. I know it's crap quality but it seems really effective.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/23 17:03:28
Galas wrote: I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you
Bharring wrote: He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
Am I correct in that, there are no representations of WE in the entire event? Bummer. I like seeing what people bring to big events and compare to what I'm doing.
I was a last minute entry to replace a friend so my list is not in there, I showed up with this:
Spoiler:
+ ARMY FACTIONS : CHAOS SPACE MARINES, WORLD EATERS, RENEGADE
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
== Battalion Detachment, World Eaters == 1458pts +5CP
HQ1 : Dark Apostle (72), power maul (4), [Relic: BRASS COLLAR OF BHORGHASTER], Khorne -1CP [76]
HQ2 : Exalted Champion (70), power sword (4), [Relic: THE MURDER SWORD], Khorne - [74 pts]
HQ3 : Kharn the Betrayer [160 pts]
HQ4 : Deamon Prince with Wings (170), Malefic Talons (0), Malefic Talons (10), Tzentch, warp time, smite, WL: UNHOLY FORTITUDE - [180 pts]
HQ5 : Deamon Prince with Wings (170), Malefic Talons (0), Malefic Talons (10), Tzentch, death hex, smite - [180 pts]
HQ6 : Deamon Prince with Wings (170), Malefic Talons (0), Malefic Talons (10), Tzentch, prescience, smite - [180 pts]
====================================
TOTAL : 1 998 pts
Finished 170 in total - had a bad start and screwed up my second game against custodes and poorly played my game 3 ... the list is fun and do well and the terrains were spot on to help deliver the berzerkers where i needed.
It's not an ultimate all killing list but here's my results:
Game 1: against alaithoc Eldar with 9 spears, 3 prisms and 3 hemloc - L 14-6 (was tight until T4)
Game 2: against close combat custodes with Guirlyman - L 18-2 (kill points ... really hard to pull and messed up my turn 1)
Game 3: against another eldar with 9 spears, 10 reapers and 3 D batteries - L 14-6 (turn 5 i was winning, turn 6 got removed from the objectives ...)
Game 4: against shooty Thousands Sons Arhiman, las pred, defiler, helldrake, ferrocerberus) - W 20-0 (just kept him in the corner and sat on the objectives at the end)
Game 5: against guard with basilisks, leman russes, mortars and plasma scions - W 20-0 (kept him in the corner and scored massively with the modified mission every turn - didn't had much left but was too much ahead)
Marmatag wrote: I find the terrain interesting. Does anyone know if the london GT considered these walls ruins? or were they impassable?
I really like how well it blocks line of sight in regards to height, and not being too huge. I know it's crap quality but it seems really effective.
Ruins so blocking LoS but infantry could move through them.
On stream they were often playing with granting cover while in base contact with the walls aswell.
fluffstalker wrote: I know that Necrons only placed mid-tier, but I'm curious as to whether anyone has the top two or three lists?
Spoiler:
Daniel “Papa D” Hesselberg
Faction - Necrons
2000p
8 Drops
Super heavy detachment - Mephirit Dynasty
LoW Tesseract Vault (496), 4 x tesla sphere (4x0) [496]
LoW Tesseract Vault (496), 4 x tesla sphere (4x0) [496]
LoW Tesseract Vault (496), 4 x tesla sphere (4x0) [496]
Outrider detachment – Nephrek Dynasty
HQ1 Destroyer Lord (110), (Warlord) Warscythe (11), Phylacetry (10), Artifact - Nanoscarab casket (0) [131]
Elite 1 C’tan Shard of the Deceiver (225), 2 x star-god fists (0) [225]
Fast 4 x Canoptek Scarab (4x13), Feeder mandibles (4x0) [52]
Fast 4 x Canoptek Scarab (4x13), Feeder mandibles (4x0) [52]
Fast 4 x Canoptek Scarab (4x13), Feeder mandibles (4x0) [52]
Spoiler:
PLAYER NAME: Raphael Kubiak
ARMY FACTION: Necrons
TOTAL COMMAND POINTS: 7
TOTAL ARMY POINTS: 1993 pts
Marmatag wrote: I find the terrain interesting. Does anyone know if the london GT considered these walls ruins? or were they impassable?
I really like how well it blocks line of sight in regards to height, and not being too huge. I know it's crap quality but it seems really effective.
Ruins so blocking LoS but infantry could move through them.
On stream they were often playing with granting cover while in base contact with the walls aswell.
I feel like 8th expects all terrain to have a base with rubble around it.
Marmatag wrote: I find the terrain interesting. Does anyone know if the london GT considered these walls ruins? or were they impassable?
I really like how well it blocks line of sight in regards to height, and not being too huge. I know it's crap quality but it seems really effective.
Ruins so blocking LoS but infantry could move through them.
On stream they were often playing with granting cover while in base contact with the walls aswell.
I feel like 8th expects all terrain to have a base with rubble around it.
Yeah, it was played as fully LOS blocking ruins - however, some people played it as giving cover when in base contact with it, a lot of people didn't. Generally agreed beforehand. Not sure it's fully visible in most of the pics, but the larger middle pieces actually had a ledge built into them, running the entire length of the inside edges. The smaller pieces didn't. Everyone played the ledge as cover if you had models on it. In my games we also played it as "if you're on top of the terrain piece you also get cover", but i can't say if others did it (but presume so). We didn't use the base contact in any of my games, as we decided that being in base contact doesn't constitute being "in" the terrain piece - especially as they didn't have defined base areas. I wasn't bothered either way.
The "hills" were played as a mix of hills (so no cover at all) or due to their shape etc, giving cover. Some of my games played it as giving cover if fully on it, my other games didn't. We just talked it over each game.
The "woods" sections - which were usually a bit of card surrounded with cement generally got ignored some of my tables didn't even have them on there. I think the cover bonus only came up in game 1, with them, the rest of the time they had zero impact on the game and didn't need to be there.
Lack of consistency was completely down to the terrain situation on each table, regardless of what the player pack said everything way. If you see a piece of paper on each side of the table, most people aren't going to even bother considering it as "terrain",
Automatically Appended Next Post: One thing i will repeat over and over again though,
While the terrain sucked from a visual point of view, and from a rules consistency point of view. It WAS functional and it DID lead to interesting games.
All they need to do now, is keep the layouts as they were, but change the physical terrain to a standard expected of a major, live streamed (on several channels) event.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/23 21:16:39
It would be neat to play trees where if you drew a straight line from base to base 1mm thick, if it touched or passed over the terrain with trees, they granted a cover save. So they don't block line of sight but offer some cover even if you're not standing in them.
Galas wrote: I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you
Bharring wrote: He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
Hey Daedalus, not sure if this is possible, but does your model allow you to quickly search how many lists contained Custodes excluding Shield Captains, Vexillas or Vertus Praetors/Jetbikes? As in not excluding lists with those words, but not counting those lists as containing Custodes unless they contain other Custodes units?
I suppose as a rough estimate, could you maybe see how many lists contained the words ‘Guardian Spear’?
kombatwombat wrote: Hey Daedalus, not sure if this is possible, but does your model allow you to quickly search how many lists contained Custodes excluding Shield Captains, Vexillas or Vertus Praetors/Jetbikes? As in not excluding lists with those words, but not counting those lists as containing Custodes unless they contain other Custodes units?
I suppose as a rough estimate, could you maybe see how many lists contained the words ‘Guardian Spear’?
(note that just searching for Guardian Spear will get you a bunch of Vexilla's and otherwise bike armies.
Thank you.
I did a search for Custodian Guard and yielded 5 lists. Of those the two you mentioned were pure. Amongst 360 lists, I think it’s fair to say that Custodes are not overpowered or even particularly competitive.
What really worries me is that GW will see that Jetbikes are undercosted and bump their costs up, without understanding that they are a crutch that holds up the rest of the book. What Custodes really need is a solid points hike for Jetbikes (Shield Captains or no) and an equally solid points drop across the rest of the Custodes Codex to compensate so we start seeing some variation in competitive Custodes and not just 3 Shield Captain Jetbikes shoehorned into a Guard/Soup army.
(note that just searching for Guardian Spear will get you a bunch of Vexilla's and otherwise bike armies.
Thank you.
I did a search for Custodian Guard and yielded 5 lists. Of those the two you mentioned were pure. Amongst 360 lists, I think it’s fair to say that Custodes are not overpowered or even particularly competitive.
What really worries me is that GW will see that Jetbikes are undercosted and bump their costs up, without understanding that they are a crutch that holds up the rest of the book. What Custodes really need is a solid points hike for Jetbikes (Shield Captains or no) and an equally solid points drop across the rest of the Custodes Codex to compensate so we start seeing some variation in competitive Custodes and not just 3 Shield Captain Jetbikes shoehorned into a Guard/Soup army.
Doesn't work that way.
Custodes models are to expensive with bad (for their cost) shooting that have to walk across the table or deepstrike, in turn 2, stand around for a turn and then maybe charge in turn 3 if your enemy lets you but possibly never as his army simply retreats and feeds you some chaff.
I don't think there is a realistic price point where you will see Custodes armies be competitive without bike spam.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/24 08:42:35
Ordana wrote: Doesn't work that way.
Custodes models are to expensive with bad (for their cost) shooting that have to walk across the table or deepstrike, in turn 2, stand around for a turn and then maybe charge in turn 3 if your enemy lets you but possibly never as his army simply retreats and feeds you some chaff.
I don't think there is a realistic price point where you will see Custodes armies be competitive without bike spam.
I disagree, but with a significant caveat. They are a very heavy duty army that requires anti-tank and/or mortal wounds to deal with. If you lack the weapons you don’t have much of a hope of actually killing them. What they lack is a distraction to provide some cover fire and soak up your opponent’s heavy weapons for a turn or two while your basic Guardians get into charge range.
In short, there is a realistic price point where you will see Custodes armies be competitive without bike spam, once they get the rules for their 30k vehicles. Those grav tanks and Dreadnoughts aren’t actually very good at all, but in a game yesterday a Telemon and a Caladius entirely occupied the bulk of my opponent’s heavy weapons, and 3 Jetbikes absorbed all of his Mortal Wounds. Between the two the rest of my army had two full turns to advance relatively unmolested and get into stabby range. And if you can get more than half of a Custodes army into combat they’re going to wreck face.
With their 30k vehicles available, a points hike for Jetbikes and a points drop scattered across the rest of the army, you could end up with a very competitive combined arms faction.
Ordana wrote: Doesn't work that way.
Custodes models are to expensive with bad (for their cost) shooting that have to walk across the table or deepstrike, in turn 2, stand around for a turn and then maybe charge in turn 3 if your enemy lets you but possibly never as his army simply retreats and feeds you some chaff.
I don't think there is a realistic price point where you will see Custodes armies be competitive without bike spam.
I disagree, but with a significant caveat. They are a very heavy duty army that requires anti-tank and/or mortal wounds to deal with. If you lack the weapons you don’t have much of a hope of actually killing them. What they lack is a distraction to provide some cover fire and soak up your opponent’s heavy weapons for a turn or two while your basic Guardians get into charge range.
In short, there is a realistic price point where you will see Custodes armies be competitive without bike spam, once they get the rules for their 30k vehicles. Those grav tanks and Dreadnoughts aren’t actually very good at all, but in a game yesterday a Telemon and a Caladius entirely occupied the bulk of my opponent’s heavy weapons, and 3 Jetbikes absorbed all of his Mortal Wounds. Between the two the rest of my army had two full turns to advance relatively unmolested and get into stabby range. And if you can get more than half of a Custodes army into combat they’re going to wreck face.
With their 30k vehicles available, a points hike for Jetbikes and a points drop scattered across the rest of the army, you could end up with a very competitive combined arms faction.
A lot of tournaments don't allow FW so I never account for that,
Ordana wrote: A lot of tournaments don't allow FW so I never account for that,
Woah hold up what backwater hick town are you from that doesn’t allow FW in tournaments this edition?
I mean I come from a backwater hick town as cities go (Perth) and even the old grognards welcome FW here. Given how many tournaments try to emulate the ETC/ITC environments or even the real GWGT circuit, I think you’d be very hard pressed to find a predominance of FW banning.
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
Ordana wrote: A lot of tournaments don't allow FW so I never account for that,
Woah hold up what backwater hick town are you from that doesn’t allow FW in tournaments this edition?
I mean I come from a backwater hick town as cities go (Perth) and even the old grognards welcome FW here. Given how many tournaments try to emulate the ETC/ITC environments or even the real GWGT circuit, I think you’d be very hard pressed to find a predominance of FW banning.
The entire ETC for starters?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/24 14:10:02
Ordana wrote: A lot of tournaments don't allow FW so I never account for that,
Woah hold up what backwater hick town are you from that doesn’t allow FW in tournaments this edition?
I mean I come from a backwater hick town as cities go (Perth) and even the old grognards welcome FW here. Given how many tournaments try to emulate the ETC/ITC environments or even the real GWGT circuit, I think you’d be very hard pressed to find a predominance of FW banning.
The entire ETC for starters?
And about a quarter of the US Tournaments. There's a reason FW is so rare even at GTs that allow them. A lot of tournament players won't bother with models that they can only take to certain events. FW has made a lot of strides, but until they match GW is rules balance and speed of FAQing
*pause*
..., but until they match GW is rules balance and speed of FAQing
My Emperor. Who the hell ever thought that sentence would be written? The warp is clearly shaping reality in the past year.
Bender wrote:* Realise that despite the way people talk, this is not a professional sport played by demi gods, but rather a game of toy soldiers played by tired, inebriated human beings.
Ordana wrote: A lot of tournaments don't allow FW so I never account for that,
Woah hold up what backwater hick town are you from that doesn’t allow FW in tournaments this edition?
I mean I come from a backwater hick town as cities go (Perth) and even the old grognards welcome FW here. Given how many tournaments try to emulate the ETC/ITC environments or even the real GWGT circuit, I think you’d be very hard pressed to find a predominance of FW banning.
The entire ETC for starters?
And about a quarter of the US Tournaments. There's a reason FW is so rare even at GTs that allow them. A lot of tournament players won't bother with models that they can only take to certain events. FW has made a lot of strides, but until they match GW is rules balance and speed of FAQing
*pause*
..., but until they match GW is rules balance and speed of FAQing
My Emperor. Who the hell ever thought that sentence would be written? The warp is clearly shaping reality in the past year.
Yeah, I gave up on any idea of ever purchasing a forgeworld model pretty much ever again after over a year into the edition, 80% of my forgeworld stuff doesn't have rules for 8th ed 40k at all (fires of cyraxus coming SOONtm ) and the remaining 20% got smacked with gigantic nerfs in Kneejerk Approved, presumably because GW just shrugged, decided forgeworld could never be trusted to get their gak together, and nerfed everything with a nice wet blanket slap.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
Ordana wrote: A lot of tournaments don't allow FW so I never account for that,
Woah hold up what backwater hick town are you from that doesn’t allow FW in tournaments this edition?
I mean I come from a backwater hick town as cities go (Perth) and even the old grognards welcome FW here. Given how many tournaments try to emulate the ETC/ITC environments or even the real GWGT circuit, I think you’d be very hard pressed to find a predominance of FW banning.
The entire ETC for starters?
And about a quarter of the US Tournaments. There's a reason FW is so rare even at GTs that allow them. A lot of tournament players won't bother with models that they can only take to certain events. FW has made a lot of strides, but until they match GW is rules balance and speed of FAQing
*pause*
..., but until they match GW is rules balance and speed of FAQing
My Emperor. Who the hell ever thought that sentence would be written? The warp is clearly shaping reality in the past year.
I would say it's way less than a quarter and none of the majors. LVO, NOVA and Adepticon all allow Forgeworld.
Also, lots of top-tier players buy them so I have no idea where that notion came from. Did we forget so soon about Fire Raptor spam which was everywhere for awhile? Fire Raptors are Forgeworld models. 7th Edition had Skatach Wraithknights ALL OVER the place. Those are Forgeworld. Forgeworld shows up in lots of places.
Gotta agree with the backwater hick sentiment for places that disallow Forgeworld. Forgeworld stuff even gets balanced in Chapter Approved for crying out loud.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/24 16:24:41
Ordana wrote: A lot of tournaments don't allow FW so I never account for that,
Woah hold up what backwater hick town are you from that doesn’t allow FW in tournaments this edition?
I mean I come from a backwater hick town as cities go (Perth) and even the old grognards welcome FW here. Given how many tournaments try to emulate the ETC/ITC environments or even the real GWGT circuit, I think you’d be very hard pressed to find a predominance of FW banning.
The entire ETC for starters?
Bloody Nora, do you guys not let gay people get married or women vote either?
I never thought Australia would lead Europe in What Should Be The Bleeding Obvious, but as I live and breathe...
Ordana wrote: Doesn't work that way.
Custodes models are to expensive with bad (for their cost) shooting that have to walk across the table or deepstrike, in turn 2, stand around for a turn and then maybe charge in turn 3 if your enemy lets you but possibly never as his army simply retreats and feeds you some chaff.
I don't think there is a realistic price point where you will see Custodes armies be competitive without bike spam.
I disagree, but with a significant caveat. They are a very heavy duty army that requires anti-tank and/or mortal wounds to deal with. If you lack the weapons you don’t have much of a hope of actually killing them. What they lack is a distraction to provide some cover fire and soak up your opponent’s heavy weapons for a turn or two while your basic Guardians get into charge range.
In short, there is a realistic price point where you will see Custodes armies be competitive without bike spam, once they get the rules for their 30k vehicles. Those grav tanks and Dreadnoughts aren’t actually very good at all, but in a game yesterday a Telemon and a Caladius entirely occupied the bulk of my opponent’s heavy weapons, and 3 Jetbikes absorbed all of his Mortal Wounds. Between the two the rest of my army had two full turns to advance relatively unmolested and get into stabby range. And if you can get more than half of a Custodes army into combat they’re going to wreck face.
With their 30k vehicles available, a points hike for Jetbikes and a points drop scattered across the rest of the army, you could end up with a very competitive combined arms faction.
A lot of tournaments don't allow FW so I never account for that,
tbf, most NA tournaments allow forgeworld and that's mostly fine. The problem with forgeworld used to be the seeming exclusivity and the seemingly 'pay to win' nature of their stuff. Now it's mostly the fact the FW rules writers have no goddam clue what they're doing in 8th edition and are just as likely to make something that technically, as per RAW, self destructs during deployment as they are something super OP..
Ordana wrote: Doesn't work that way.
Custodes models are to expensive with bad (for their cost) shooting that have to walk across the table or deepstrike, in turn 2, stand around for a turn and then maybe charge in turn 3 if your enemy lets you but possibly never as his army simply retreats and feeds you some chaff.
I don't think there is a realistic price point where you will see Custodes armies be competitive without bike spam.
I disagree, but with a significant caveat. They are a very heavy duty army that requires anti-tank and/or mortal wounds to deal with. If you lack the weapons you don’t have much of a hope of actually killing them. What they lack is a distraction to provide some cover fire and soak up your opponent’s heavy weapons for a turn or two while your basic Guardians get into charge range.
In short, there is a realistic price point where you will see Custodes armies be competitive without bike spam, once they get the rules for their 30k vehicles. Those grav tanks and Dreadnoughts aren’t actually very good at all, but in a game yesterday a Telemon and a Caladius entirely occupied the bulk of my opponent’s heavy weapons, and 3 Jetbikes absorbed all of his Mortal Wounds. Between the two the rest of my army had two full turns to advance relatively unmolested and get into stabby range. And if you can get more than half of a Custodes army into combat they’re going to wreck face.
With their 30k vehicles available, a points hike for Jetbikes and a points drop scattered across the rest of the army, you could end up with a very competitive combined arms faction.
A lot of tournaments don't allow FW so I never account for that,
tbf, most NA tournaments allow forgeworld and that's mostly fine. The problem with forgeworld used to be the seeming exclusivity and the seemingly 'pay to win' nature of their stuff. Now it's mostly the fact the FW rules writers have no goddam clue what they're doing in 8th edition and are just as likely to make something that technically, as per RAW, self destructs during deployment as they are something super OP..
You say that jokingly but I'veseen an Ork squig hound wolf down three of my own grot tanks before on a failed morale test.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"