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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

 Yodhrin wrote:
I don't think the Nolan Batmans will be considered a classic by comic book movie fans, but they probably will be by the broader moviegoing action-blockbuster crowd and the critics because they're the poster-child for that whole "you can't translate comic books to the screen with any depth or maturity unless they're, like, super-dark and, like, super-deep brah" school of thought that prevailed until the MCU really took hold.


Uhhh.... that's what Burton's Batman was, following the TV show. super dark and super deep. By comparision

   
Made in gb
Mighty Vampire Count






UK

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
 Yodhrin wrote:
I don't think the Nolan Batmans will be considered a classic by comic book movie fans, but they probably will be by the broader moviegoing action-blockbuster crowd and the critics because they're the poster-child for that whole "you can't translate comic books to the screen with any depth or maturity unless they're, like, super-dark and, like, super-deep brah" school of thought that prevailed until the MCU really took hold.


Uhhh.... that's what Burton's Batman was, following the TV show. super dark and super deep. By comparision


Some peopel do ignore that most of the groundwork was done way before Nolans films by Burtons excellent Batman film - the sequal was a bit of a mess sadly and degenrated as the series went on.

But IMO Tim Burtons Batman is a true classic

I AM A MARINE PLAYER

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

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A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in se
Ferocious Black Templar Castellan






Sweden

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
 JohnHwangDD wrote:
 Turnip Jedi wrote:
but isn't part of Sucker Punch's schtick that we the audience are complicit in watching the girls exactly because they are hella purty, and their oddball fantasy escapism sequences are essentially teenage / dirty old pervs sticky fetish fever dreams that 'we' think they should have further demeaning them for 'fun'


Correct - it's no accident that the audience of men in the dream layer are sleazy and slimy AF. Snyder could have cast guys that looked like John Hamm, a father that looked like George Clooney, etc. but he chose not to. The casting choices and how they present in the various layers are very deliberate. One should assume implicit intent.


The question wasn't about the casting. It was about us, the audience, not the sleazeballs in the movie.




No amount of Orkmoticons are going to change the fact that you responded to a question about whether we as an audience are complicit with a post about the in-universe audience, which wasn't what the question was about. It's right there, in writing. You do actually read the arguments you respond to, right?

For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. 
   
Made in fr
Hallowed Canoness





I think doubleD's answer was “Yes, Sucker Punch's schtick that we the audience are complicit in watching the girls exactly because they are hella purty, we can see it was Snyder's intention because the audience is in dream layer, WHO ARE SUPPOSED TO BE A STAND-IN FOR THE VIEWERS OF THE MOVIE, are depicted as ugly horrible men”.
Not saying I necessarily agree with it, but he was making a point about the intentions of the movie wrt its opinion of its viewer.

"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
 JohnHwangDD wrote:
 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
 JohnHwangDD wrote:
 Turnip Jedi wrote:
but isn't part of Sucker Punch's schtick that we the audience are complicit in watching the girls exactly because they are hella purty, and their oddball fantasy escapism sequences are essentially teenage / dirty old pervs sticky fetish fever dreams that 'we' think they should have further demeaning them for 'fun'


Correct - it's no accident that the audience of men in the dream layer are sleazy and slimy AF. Snyder could have cast guys that looked like John Hamm, a father that looked like George Clooney, etc. but he chose not to. The casting choices and how they present in the various layers are very deliberate. One should assume implicit intent.


The question wasn't about the casting. It was about us, the audience, not the sleazeballs in the movie.




No amount of Orkmoticons are going to change the fact that you responded to a question about whether we as an audience are complicit with a post about the in-universe audience, which wasn't what the question was about. It's right there, in writing. You do actually read the arguments you respond to, right?


If you don't understand why you were facepalmed, you need to re-read the initial comment and my response to understand why your follow-up question is so dumb it didn't warrant a text reply. Seriously, go read it again. I highlighted the quick answer if the other words were too much for you.

   
Made in us
Norn Queen






Well thats just it. Its only a classic in that it was the last big set of movies right before the MCU proved you can do comic book adaptations acurately and well and just make a good movie. That doesnt make it much of anything.

What i have taken away from this thread is that many individuals consider something a classic when it speaks directly to them. War movies that match their military experience. A depiction of lucid dreaming that matches their own experience.

But what actually cements a movie into a culture as a classic is when it manages to bring that experience to a wider audience and resonate with people who dont have those connections. EVERYONE can appreciate the horrors of war with saving private ryan. But black hawk down is just an action drama to most. Forgettable amongst the many military action dramas that exist. Not bad at all mimd you. Just not resonating with the masses the way spr does.

The mcu resonates as this big cultural experience. This ride we have all riden for over 10 years and close to 50 hours of story.

When a new comic accurate batman eventually shows up nolans trillogy will sit with the others as the movies who got batman wrong. And why did they think it would be impossible to do it right?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/23 19:30:05



These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
 
   
Made in se
Ferocious Black Templar Castellan






Sweden

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
 JohnHwangDD wrote:
 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
 JohnHwangDD wrote:
 Turnip Jedi wrote:
but isn't part of Sucker Punch's schtick that we the audience are complicit in watching the girls exactly because they are hella purty, and their oddball fantasy escapism sequences are essentially teenage / dirty old pervs sticky fetish fever dreams that 'we' think they should have further demeaning them for 'fun'


Correct - it's no accident that the audience of men in the dream layer are sleazy and slimy AF. Snyder could have cast guys that looked like John Hamm, a father that looked like George Clooney, etc. but he chose not to. The casting choices and how they present in the various layers are very deliberate. One should assume implicit intent.


The question wasn't about the casting. It was about us, the audience, not the sleazeballs in the movie.




No amount of Orkmoticons are going to change the fact that you responded to a question about whether we as an audience are complicit with a post about the in-universe audience, which wasn't what the question was about. It's right there, in writing. You do actually read the arguments you respond to, right?


If you don't understand why you were facepalmed, you need to re-read the initial comment and my response to understand why your follow-up question is so dumb it didn't warrant a text reply. Seriously, go read it again. I highlighted the quick answer if the other words were too much for you.


Starting a sentence with "correct" and then expanding on why the statement you're replying to is correct in a manner that doesn't have anything to do with the statement is completely pointless. It's like me agreeing with your statement and then going on about how I liked the lighting in the movie; I'm sure it's really interesting, but it's not what you responded to.

You don't have to go full-on arrogant just because you can.

For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. 
   
Made in it
Waaagh! Ork Warboss




Italy

Considering only the last 10 years I'd say those films will be remembered for decades as masterpieces or cult movies:

La La Land

Mad Max Fury Road

Ex Machina

Snowpiercer

Her

Pitch Perfect 1 & 2

50/50

Silver Linings Playbook

Warrior

Gone Girl

Easy A

Frozen

Kingsman the Secret Service

Up in the Air

Inglorious Basterds

Inception

Up

Avatar

Many of them are already "classics"

Maybe also Arrival, Sherlock Holmes 1 & 2, Kingsman the Golden Circle and Blade Runner 2049.

I don't think MCU movies will be remembered for years, the first movies, even those that had huge success are already fading away. The point about MCU movies is that they are like episodes of a tv series. Who's going to watch an older episode of a tv series? Everyone just watches the new episode, not the older ones. Movies like The Avengers, Captain America: The Winter Soldier or Iron Man don't have the same appeal they had some years ago, simply because they got 10+ sequels. I bet this new Avengers Infinity War (which I also liked a lot) will be almost forgotten once 4-5 new MCU movies will be released.

 
   
Made in us
Norn Queen






 Blackie wrote:

I don't think MCU movies will be remembered for years, the first movies, even those that had huge success are already fading away. The point about MCU movies is that they are like episodes of a tv series. Who's going to watch an older episode of a tv series? Everyone just watches the new episode, not the older ones. Movies like The Avengers, Captain America: The Winter Soldier or Iron Man don't have the same appeal they had some years ago, simply because they got 10+ sequels. I bet this new Avengers Infinity War (which I also liked a lot) will be almost forgotten once 4-5 new MCU movies will be released.


Quantum Leap, Twilight Zone, and other series are classics that are watched over and over.

Individual episodes stand out as truey great but it's the series as a whole that is remembered as this great thing that had a lot to say. Even though there are some dud episodes in the mix.

The MCU is the first time this was done in movie form.


These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
 
   
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Waaagh! Ork Warboss




Italy

 Lance845 wrote:
 Blackie wrote:

I don't think MCU movies will be remembered for years, the first movies, even those that had huge success are already fading away. The point about MCU movies is that they are like episodes of a tv series. Who's going to watch an older episode of a tv series? Everyone just watches the new episode, not the older ones. Movies like The Avengers, Captain America: The Winter Soldier or Iron Man don't have the same appeal they had some years ago, simply because they got 10+ sequels. I bet this new Avengers Infinity War (which I also liked a lot) will be almost forgotten once 4-5 new MCU movies will be released.


Quantum Leap, Twilight Zone, and other series are classics that are watched over and over.



These tv series don't have the same notoriety of The Good The Bad The Ugly, Gone with the Wind, Rear Window, Back to Future, Matrix, etc. Not even remotely.

 Lance845 wrote:


Individual episodes stand out as truey great but it's the series as a whole that is remembered as this great thing that had a lot to say. Even though there are some dud episodes in the mix.

The MCU is the first time this was done in movie form.


Being the first doesn't mean being great and unforgettable. You think there are some dud episodes, I think there are just a couple of good episodes (sligthly above average but nothing special) in the entire lot. I also think that despite 10000 different characters MCU episodes are all very similar while movies that are remembered for decades are quite unique. No one remembers Star Wars episodes I, II, III, VII and Rogue One. In a couple of years also Solo and episode VIII will fade away. Star wars will always be remembered for luke, leia, darth vader, han solo, "I'm your father" and yoda's training.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/06/23 21:52:05


 
   
Made in us
Norn Queen






Maybe in Italy they are not remembered like the movies you list, but over here in the states I think Quantum Leap and Twilight zone have more general fond memories than the Matrix or Rear Window.

Disney World has a ride dedicated to Twilight zone and has since 1994. I don't think the Matrix has.... anything.


These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
 JohnHwangDD wrote:
 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
 JohnHwangDD wrote:
 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
 JohnHwangDD wrote:
 Turnip Jedi wrote:
but isn't part of Sucker Punch's schtick that we the audience are complicit in watching the girls exactly because they are hella purty, and their oddball fantasy escapism sequences are essentially teenage / dirty old pervs sticky fetish fever dreams that 'we' think they should have further demeaning them for 'fun'


Correct - it's no accident that the audience of men in the dream layer are sleazy and slimy AF. Snyder could have cast guys that looked like John Hamm, a father that looked like George Clooney, etc. but he chose not to. The casting choices and how they present in the various layers are very deliberate. One should assume implicit intent.


The question wasn't about the casting. It was about us, the audience, not the sleazeballs in the movie.




No amount of Orkmoticons are going to change the fact that you responded to a question about whether we as an audience are complicit with a post about the in-universe audience, which wasn't what the question was about. It's right there, in writing. You do actually read the arguments you respond to, right?


If you don't understand why you were facepalmed, you need to re-read the initial comment and my response to understand why your follow-up question is so dumb it didn't warrant a text reply. Seriously, go read it again. I highlighted the quick answer if the other words were too much for you.


Starting a sentence with "correct" and then expanding on why the statement you're replying to is correct in a manner that doesn't have anything to do with the statement is completely pointless. It's like me agreeing with your statement and then going on about how I liked the lighting in the movie; I'm sure it's really interesting, but it's not what you responded to.

You don't have to go full-on arrogant just because you can.


Aside from the fact that it was related. I shouldn't need to spoon feed you as a follow-up, as it should have been obvious. Hence facepalm

   
Made in us
Proud Triarch Praetorian





 Blackie wrote:
 Lance845 wrote:
 Blackie wrote:

I don't think MCU movies will be remembered for years, the first movies, even those that had huge success are already fading away. The point about MCU movies is that they are like episodes of a tv series. Who's going to watch an older episode of a tv series? Everyone just watches the new episode, not the older ones. Movies like The Avengers, Captain America: The Winter Soldier or Iron Man don't have the same appeal they had some years ago, simply because they got 10+ sequels. I bet this new Avengers Infinity War (which I also liked a lot) will be almost forgotten once 4-5 new MCU movies will be released.


Quantum Leap, Twilight Zone, and other series are classics that are watched over and over.



These tv series don't have the same notoriety of The Good The Bad The Ugly, Gone with the Wind, Rear Window, Back to Future, Matrix, etc. Not even remotely.

 Lance845 wrote:


Individual episodes stand out as truey great but it's the series as a whole that is remembered as this great thing that had a lot to say. Even though there are some dud episodes in the mix.

The MCU is the first time this was done in movie form.


Being the first doesn't mean being great and unforgettable. You think there are some dud episodes, I think there are just a couple of good episodes (sligthly above average but nothing special) in the entire lot. I also think that despite 10000 different characters MCU episodes are all very similar while movies that are remembered for decades are quite unique. No one remembers Star Wars episodes I, II, III, VII and Rogue One. In a couple of years also Solo and episode VIII will fade away. Star wars will always be remembered for luke, leia, darth vader, han solo, "I'm your father" and yoda's training.


Err, I hear people talk about Twilight Zone weekly. Not internet talk, but real life humans. Less with Quantum Leap, but if anybody asks for suggestions it is never far away.

I dont even know what Rear Window is.
   
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SoCal

Rear Window is the one with evil Perry Mason, right? It's been homaged and reinterpreted and referenced so many times it will feel like you've already seen it.

   
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Waaagh! Ork Warboss




Italy

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Rear Window is the one with evil Perry Mason, right? It's been homaged and reinterpreted and referenced so many times it will feel like you've already seen it.


Alfred Hitchcock, Grace Kelly and James Stewart are the stars related to that movie. The villain was Perry Mason, right, but who knows him?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Lance845 wrote:
Maybe in Italy they are not remembered like the movies you list, but over here in the states I think Quantum Leap and Twilight zone have more general fond memories than the Matrix or Rear Window.



Aren't black & white american classics still very popular in the USA? Don't they get a ride as well in some dedicated channel?

In Italy young people usually don't know about them since here anything (not only about cinema) that is 10-15 years old is considered "dated" by the new generations but people that have a real interest in cinema know those old masterpieces wery well. I'm a huge fan of american films of the 40-50s and my favorite movies are mostly among those ones.

I agree about the fact that different cultures and countries may have a different perspective about what a classic is. Maybe Twilight Zone and Quantum Leap are still extremely popular in your country, but I'm sure that Matrix and Hitchcock are widely celebrated in the entire world, including the USA

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/06/24 06:49:30


 
   
Made in us
Norn Queen






 Blackie wrote:
 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Rear Window is the one with evil Perry Mason, right? It's been homaged and reinterpreted and referenced so many times it will feel like you've already seen it.


Alfred Hitchcock, Grace Kelly and James Stewart are the stars related to that movie. The villain was Perry Mason, right, but who knows him?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Lance845 wrote:
Maybe in Italy they are not remembered like the movies you list, but over here in the states I think Quantum Leap and Twilight zone have more general fond memories than the Matrix or Rear Window.



Aren't black & white american classics still very popular in the USA? Don't they get a ride as well in some dedicated channel?

In Italy young people usually don't know about them since here anything (not only about cinema) that is 10-15 years old is considered "dated" by the new generations but people that have a real interest in cinema know those old masterpieces wery well. I'm a huge fan of american films of the 40-50s and my favorite movies are mostly among those ones.

I agree about the fact that different cultures and countries may have a different perspective about what a classic is. Maybe Twilight Zone and Quantum Leap are still extremely popular in your country, but I'm sure that Matrix and Hitchcock are widely celebrated in the entire world, including the USA


Twilight Zone IS black and white. Some Black and Whites are good, but it's very few. Hitchcock is remembered in general for what he did for cinema more than any of his movies specifically. Though The Birds, Strangers on a Train, Vertigo, and Psycho are going to be the ones people remember the most. There are zero Hitchcock films on Netflix at the moment, but Twilight zone has been on there for a couple years (and I have watched through it all a couple times).

Over here, among my circle, the Matrix is remembered as a movie that was good at the time and had 2 bad sequels that kind of made the first worse by association. The first Matrix is still a decent enough movie. It set a tone in action for the next few years with it's kung fu and such. But the movie itself? No. It doesn't hold up at all with the really great movies whos messages are timeless. Twilight zone episodes at their best full on amazing. Watch "The Lonely", "The Monsters are Due on Maple Street", "Time Enough At Last", "Walking Distance", and "I am the Night - Color Me Black". I would argue these episodes are far more iconic and lasting then anything the Wachowski Brothers or Nolan has ever done.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/24 07:32:25



These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
 
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch





Whilst I like The Matrix I prefer Dark City which plays with similar idea's, its not perfect but I suspect influenced both Sucker Punch and Inception (also Jennifer Connelly is far lovelier than either Kanoe or Carrie)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/24 08:02:41


"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED." 
   
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 Turnip Jedi wrote:
Whilst I like The Matrix I prefer Dark City which plays with similar idea's, its not perfect but I suspect influenced both Sucker Punch and Inception (also Jennifer Connelly is far lovelier than either Kanoe or Carrie)


I LOVE Dark City.


These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
 
   
Made in gb
Mighty Vampire Count






UK

Dark City is a very good film IMO - I was flicking channels when I found it half way through and watched the cityscape shift and change and went - ok Wow what the hell is this.

With a cinematic film world full of beautiful actresses never got the appeal of Carrie-Ann Moss.

Really enjoyable film.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/24 10:25:05


I AM A MARINE PLAYER

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in it
Waaagh! Ork Warboss




Italy

Dark City is a real cult, I also adore it.

 Lance845 wrote:


Some Black and Whites are good, but it's very few.



There are countless black and white movies that are still amazing and sometimes get a new ride not only in television but also in festivals or even standard theatres.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/24 10:52:03


 
   
Made in gb
Mighty Vampire Count






UK

 Blackie wrote:
Dark City is a real cult, I also adore it.

 Lance845 wrote:


Some Black and Whites are good, but it's very few.



There are countless black and white movies that are still amazing and sometimes get a new ride not only in television but also in festivals or even standard theatres.


yep thats a very wierd statement.

I AM A MARINE PLAYER

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch





Problem with old(er) B/W films is lack of accessible viewing choices, the majority of streaming services don't tend to go back past 50/60's so other than chance finds on telly or rare screenings / festivals its kind of limited exposure

"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED." 
   
Made in it
Waaagh! Ork Warboss




Italy

 Turnip Jedi wrote:
Problem with old(er) B/W films is lack of accessible viewing choices, the majority of streaming services don't tend to go back past 50/60's so other than chance finds on telly or rare screenings / festivals its kind of limited exposure


It's the same matter about foreign movies that are not in english. Some of them will be remembered as classics even without grossing a billion or being famous in the USA.

But I think it's nonsense. In an era in which you can illegally download anything without ripercussions this is not a real issue. Maybe a moral issue, but tons of people gain access to movies and tv series illegally, even the most recens ones so the lack of accessible viewing choices is mostly irrelevant.

The real problem is the current movies are mostly trash. Copy paste of previous works and usually with mediocre or average actors and actresses. There are a lot of gems even in this decade but mainstream high grossing movies are usually not the work of some artists like Hitchcock, Wilder, Hawks, Minnelli, Kubrick, Leone or even Tarantino, Ritchie and Cameron just to quote some active directors that are above average. They're written and directed only to make huge profits. Not a single MCU episode was and will ever be directed by a great director and this is applied to basically every current franchise. Sometimes real stars get involved in those projects but usually only for the huge salary, no one would consider those performances as their best ones. Just think about Jennifer Lawrence, Michael Fassbender, Benedict Cumberbatch or Christian Bale. Are they celebrated and will they be remembered for X Men, MCU movies or Batman? Definitely not. However if you think about movies that were produced with more freedom of choices like Mad Max Fury Road you can easily associate them with the protagonists that starred in those works: Tom Hardy and Charlize Theron for example did a lot of notable movies but they surely can be remembered for Mad Max Fury Road because it's a solid movie and will be solid even when its special effects become dated. The same can't be said about MCU episodes, the recent Star Wars, Transformers or Jurassic World.

The new generations get used to this way of produce movies and stay away from more serious ones. This is the real problem and the reason why many real artists in the films industry migrated to the tv series world which grants them more freedom of choice and the possibility to pursue their personal views and ideas about cinema.

 
   
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What are you people on about with Mad Max Fury Road? It was terrible. Original was much better.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
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 Xenomancers wrote:
What are you people on about with Mad Max Fury Road? It was terrible. Original was much better.


Whilst its not my favourite 'Charlize does X' movie it hopefully made Micheal Bay feel like the talentless mook he is

"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED." 
   
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Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

Dark City is already a cult classic. Great film!

   
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Imperial Guard Landspeeder Pilot




On moon miranda.

 Xenomancers wrote:
What are you people on about with Mad Max Fury Road? It was terrible. Original was much better.
The original Mad Max? It's an interesting world, but it's really not a very good flick by comparison. Keays-Byrne as Immortan Joe is an entirely different level of character than Keays-Byrne as Toecutter. The filming locations and physical settings are...incomparable, especially as the original isn't totally post apocalyptic yet (decaying, but there are still businesses, Max has a nice home, the roads are functional, the threats are a half dozen hobos lead by Toecutter, not an army of fanatics, etc). The dialogue, pacing, etc of the original really doesn't match Fury Road, and is certainly a dramatically smaller in scale.



IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.

New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights!
The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.  
   
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Norn Queen






Xenomancers wrote:What are you people on about with Mad Max Fury Road? It was terrible. Original was much better.


The original? The one that was mostly about Goose and took place in a little town that had a lawyer and laws and did't feel post apocalyptic at all? Seriously?

Blackie wrote:
 Turnip Jedi wrote:
Problem with old(er) B/W films is lack of accessible viewing choices, the majority of streaming services don't tend to go back past 50/60's so other than chance finds on telly or rare screenings / festivals its kind of limited exposure


It's the same matter about foreign movies that are not in english. Some of them will be remembered as classics even without grossing a billion or being famous in the USA.

But I think it's nonsense. In an era in which you can illegally download anything without ripercussions this is not a real issue. Maybe a moral issue, but tons of people gain access to movies and tv series illegally, even the most recens ones so the lack of accessible viewing choices is mostly irrelevant.

The real problem is the current movies are mostly trash. Copy paste of previous works and usually with mediocre or average actors and actresses. There are a lot of gems even in this decade but mainstream high grossing movies are usually not the work of some artists like Hitchcock, Wilder, Hawks, Minnelli, Kubrick, Leone or even Tarantino, Ritchie and Cameron just to quote some active directors that are above average. They're written and directed only to make huge profits. Not a single MCU episode was and will ever be directed by a great director and this is applied to basically every current franchise. Sometimes real stars get involved in those projects but usually only for the huge salary, no one would consider those performances as their best ones. Just think about Jennifer Lawrence, Michael Fassbender, Benedict Cumberbatch or Christian Bale. Are they celebrated and will they be remembered for X Men, MCU movies or Batman? Definitely not. However if you think about movies that were produced with more freedom of choices like Mad Max Fury Road you can easily associate them with the protagonists that starred in those works: Tom Hardy and Charlize Theron for example did a lot of notable movies but they surely can be remembered for Mad Max Fury Road because it's a solid movie and will be solid even when its special effects become dated. The same can't be said about MCU episodes, the recent Star Wars, Transformers or Jurassic World.

The new generations get used to this way of produce movies and stay away from more serious ones. This is the real problem and the reason why many real artists in the films industry migrated to the tv series world which grants them more freedom of choice and the possibility to pursue their personal views and ideas about cinema.


First, being able to illegally download things doesn't mean any decent % of people actually do. I am fully capable but I am also just full on not willing to put in the effort anymore. Secondly, everything in every media has always been mostly trash. You ever see the original Oceans 11? It's total garbage. And thats a famous one. Modern film making technique has come a LONG way from the crap in the past. Nosferatu is held up as a classic because it invented all the tropes modern horror takes for granted. But if you go back and watch it it's also INCREDIBLY slow with a lot of unnecessary scenes and shots that just drag it all out. They didn't really understand show don't tell. And they didn't really understand that you didn't have to show a lot of things either. If a character in an old BW gets a phone call while at a restaurant you would have the waiter inform them, watch them put down their fork and knife, take off or put down their napkin, get up, the camera will follow them walk across the room, and then have them pick up the phone. You could just cut to them being on the phone. Thats all fat that could be trimmed. Some of them are good for their time. A select few are still good now. A couple are even GREAT even now and stand the test of time. But make no mistake, it's always been mostly trash.

I would argue that the Russo Brothers ARE really great directors. Chris Evans and Robert Downy Jr are great actors who are going to be remembered for their MCU roles. Chris Hemsworth is also really good. Chris Pratt. Boseman. Dave Batista is surprisingly a great actor (see his small role in Blade Runner 2049). Marvel movies are full of great talent.



These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
 
   
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We'll find out soon enough eh.

I always wonder; when folks slip into "kids today no taste or sophistication fnar fnar" mode, do they realise people of a certain age were saying literally the exact same things about their generation when watching loads of the things they now consider "classics"? Do they know literally every generation in history has considered subsequent generations to be weaker/less intelligent/less moral/lazier/lacking in taste etc etc by comparison?

And if they do, why do they think their griping is any more based in reality than that of their parents and grandparents etc all the way back to sodding Aristotle(that we know of)?

There's a question that someone should make a pretentious "arthouse" movie about eh

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 Turnip Jedi wrote:
Whilst I like The Matrix I prefer Dark City which plays with similar idea's, its not perfect but I suspect influenced both Sucker Punch and Inception (also Jennifer Connelly is far lovelier than either Kanoe or Carrie)


I was also going to mention Dark City, which has held up so much better than The Matrix. There's also the Thirteenth Floor, but it's not as dramatic or visceral as the other two.


In the US, Twilight Zone is required reading in schools, in that some of the episodes are based on short stories that are required reading. The show was so influential that you can't avoid references, homages and callbacks. I would say it's one of the most important foundational series for American pop culture of all time, beyond even Star Trek. If you haven't seen Twilight Zone, you really need to, even if only the most famous dozen episodes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Xenomancers wrote:
What are you people on about with Mad Max Fury Road? It was terrible. Original was much better.


I went in to Fury Road expecting action schlock, and it blew me away. The sheer amount of effective visual storytelling awed me. Anyone who wants to learn how to show and not tell needs to watch it. The film also trusted the audience in a way few movies ever do. It was a masterpiece.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/24 16:39:54


   
 
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