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Yeah but what about that Sgt you gave that power sword to?


Lol that never happens

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Except Guide and Doom affect every weapon. Or, in the case of Doom, everyone attacking a particular target.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also LOL that it affects melee. That doesn't do anything for Marines and you know that.

Guide is in on squad, vs. Salamanders on potentially every heavy weapon in your army. (=moar). Doom is one target, vs. Salamanders whatever you want to shoot at (can effect more than one enemy unit).

A 2 attack Salamanders sergeant with Thunder Hammer out performs a vanilla Vanguard Sergeant with same. If I ran Salamanders I'd be looking in to that.

 Insectum7 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Except Guide and Doom affect every weapon. Or, in the case of Doom, everyone attacking a particular target.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also LOL that it affects melee. That doesn't do anything for Marines and you know that.

Guide is in on squad, vs. Salamanders on potentially every heavy weapon in your army. (=moar). Doom is one target, vs. Salamanders whatever you want to shoot at (can effect more than one enemy unit).

A 2 attack Salamanders sergeant with Thunder Hammer out performs a vanilla Vanguard Sergeant with same. If I ran Salamanders I'd be looking in to that.

Don't Vanguard Sarges have three attacks?

^they do. Im just pointing out that a "normal" Salamanders Tactical sergeant can pull more weight in CC than the Vanguard Vet sergeants of other Chapters, even though they have fewer attacks. Imo there are interesting possibilities there.

 Insectum7 wrote:
^they do. Im just pointing out that a "normal" Salamanders Tactical sergeant can pull more weight in CC than the Vanguard Vet sergeants of other Chapters, even though they have fewer attacks. Imo there are interesting possibilities there.

Did do that in a non-comp game. While it was fun scaring DPs with Tac squads it was too much of a point sink to work out competitively.

The only real thing I would do with Salamanders is change the strat to affect meltas as well as flamers, and give the a relic a +1 wound alongside the toughness, its very rarely a better pick than the shield eternal for tankiness.

Digression aside. I'd prefer the bolter to remain the bolter, just for the sake of the game there needs to be a standard weapon and because of context its going to be the S4 AP- Bolter. I would however like Marines to become an army that helped leverage those bolters more effectively by giving us better board positioning options than we currently have.

 Galef wrote:
I don't think it would be too powerful on just Infantry, just odd. What wouldn't a Bike or Monster feel the affects of an exploding rounds?

No, the more I think about it, the more comfortable I am with "Exploding Rounds" just flat out being reroll to-wound against all non-Vehicle units

The only downside is that Primaris Lieutenants would need a new aura rule.

-

Kinda spits in the face of Tyranids and othe monster heavy armies. Monstrous creatures can shrug off anti tank weaponry like a lot of armoured vehicles and buildings, most of the time bolt gun would tickle.

I'm okay with the exploding rounds causing 2 separate wounds on a wound roll of 6 against INFANTRY, SWARMS and BIKERS/CAVALRY.

But not on a Carnifex or Wraithlord, they can tear apart terminator armour with their bare hands, bolters are love kisses, Marines have no shortage of las cannons or other weaponry to drown MC's in.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I was fine with that last edition, but the Lt. exists now.

We need a more unique mechanic which is why I like your idea early on.

I wouldn't see why. It's not like Lts are there for bolters. They are there to buff special weapons, so you will still use Lts near dev squads, hellblasters, vehicles and so on.
The tac squad should be an element of the army which is capable of independent operation, which can be achieved by putting the rerolls into the basic weapons.

Spoletta wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I was fine with that last edition, but the Lt. exists now.

We need a more unique mechanic which is why I like your idea early on.

I wouldn't see why. It's not like Lts are there for bolters. They are there to buff special weapons, so you will still use Lts near dev squads, hellblasters, vehicles and so on.
The tac squad should be an element of the army which is capable of independent operation, which can be achieved by putting the rerolls into the basic weapons.

Lts are there for everyone. Even you're trying to use them mostly for the Special/Heavy Weapons, you're trying to get the most bang for your buck.

In this case, Lts would be worth even less in an army.

Gir Spirit Bane wrote:

 Galef wrote:
I don't think it would be too powerful on just Infantry, just odd. What wouldn't a Bike or Monster feel the affects of an exploding rounds?

No, the more I think about it, the more comfortable I am with "Exploding Rounds" just flat out being reroll to-wound against all non-Vehicle units

The only downside is that Primaris Lieutenants would need a new aura rule.

-

Kinda spits in the face of Tyranids and othe monster heavy armies. Monstrous creatures can shrug off anti tank weaponry like a lot of armoured vehicles and buildings, most of the time bolt gun would tickle.

I'm okay with the exploding rounds causing 2 separate wounds on a wound roll of 6 against INFANTRY, SWARMS and BIKERS/CAVALRY.

But not on a Carnifex or Wraithlord, they can tear apart terminator armour with their bare hands, bolters are love kisses, Marines have no shortage of las cannons or other weaponry to drown MC's in.

I think people have moved from regular rerolls to wound on to rerolling ones to wound. It’s self regulating, it works on low toughness creatures but not very well on high toughness.

I’d really really like to chuck the whole idea of picking up any kind of wound results other than straight pass or fail.

Changed my mind... Bolters should be -1 to armour save.

Astartes should have innate abilities to use them differently. Alt fire modes if you will.

As they are elite assault troops they should be able to fire bolters as assault 2 weapons.

If they are mowing down the oncoming horde they should have the option of using them as rapid fire 2, str 3, ap 0 weapons, to represent them using the mass reactive ammo and auto targeting senses to best effect to sow confusion in a charging hordes ranks.