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Made in us
Ancient Space Wolves Venerable Dreadnought




Lemondish wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:


Yeah, if your opponent can manage to get...let's see...

477 slugga boyz within 12", they'll tear through the Triumph like nothing!

If you run the Triumph alongside pretty much any of the more expensive sororitas units like Retributors or Seraphim, the Triumph is a less efficient target than those units for anti-infantry weaponry of basically every profile. I HOPE my opponent throws sluggas, choppa attacks, random heavy bolters, etc the direction of the Triumph - they're demonstrably less effective at attacking it than most every other unit I can field unless, again, I'm bringing a big Valorous Heart bodyspam list with tons of sisters.


Thanks for showing this with actual math. It's surprisingly more durable than I thought. Exalted.

That's a horribly unfair comparison. A unit that isn't designed for shooting, who is hit as much as possible by the -1 to hit, that only has its shooting and not its melee compared is not a good example.

The math is also incorrect. He seems to have forgotten that Orks get extra shots on an unmodified 6 to hit - By my calculations, it takes only 420 shoota attacks to kill the Triumph.

Here's a better comparison: Let's have 30 of those same Ork Boyz charge after they shoot, and let's give them an actual Klan. (Say, Deff Skullz, not even a particularly good Klan when trying to maximize dps.)

So, first the pistols attack. Taking into account Dakka Dakka Dakka and the free reroll to-hit and to-wound, you get 6 hits and 1.5 wounds.
Then, they charge. The sisters kill less than half an Ork with overwatch.
The Orks attack. 90 attacks gets 11 more failed saved.

So, those 30 ork boyz (costing 210 points) took a 180 point model down from full health to 1/3rd health in a single turn, with a suboptimal klan and no buffs. Stratagem or buff access easily turns this into a kill.
   
Made in ie
Preacher of the Emperor





So back from my game. Won 9-6, I think it was a CA 2018 where the players roll off and move objectives 3".

I won't go into great detail cause I'm tired and cold but I'll give my initial impressions I guess. 1500pts, I went MSU with 3 squads of 5 with two storm bolters, 3 with 6 sisters and 3 storm bolters. 8 repentia with a mistress and Missionary in a rhino, two exorcists and 6 rets with 4 multimeltas in an Immolator, 3 imagifiers and a diologus. Not the most hardcore list but like I said, wanted it simple since I was basically working with just my brain and a page of notes about specific rules.

- First miracle dice of the game was a 6. Used it and rolled the other to put 10 damage on a telemon dread from my first exorcist. Second exorcist finished it.

-Speaking of my exorcists always rolled below average number of shot prior to the codex and continued to do so. Even with the reroll strat they consistantly rolled 5 shots.

- custodes telemon shot the rhino down to 4 wounds and some jetbikes finished it off. 4 repentia died getting out, a diologus charged the jetbikes to keep the remaining repentia from overwatch then the shield captain countered charged them and killed two before the remaining 4 got to swing. Even so those 2 repentia did a good chunk of damage before they went down between their own hits and the mortal wound strat. If I hadn't rolled so badly on the transport desrruction and the shield captain wasn't an ass I think they'd have stood a decent chance of wiping the jetbikes.

- I went with Divine Guidence as my sacred right and it really paid off with the weight of bolter shots forcing 2+'s to 3+s

- Blessed Bolts was great but felt like a waste on MSU units honestly. I probably would have taken SB Dominions had I full access to the rules but it worked out okay.

-Valerous Heart Canonesses are a pain to put down. Trajan Valoris went for slay the warlord in the late game. He got one hit through, his buddies tried to finish her off but I kept her up with Divine Intervention, Trajan used Moment Shackle to attack again, got 3 damage through, miracle'd a 6+++, passed one normally then used Moment of Grace to pass the third by increasing a 5 to a 6.

- I forgot totally about the rets cherubs but they still killed 2 storm shield custodes in the second turn.

- Stacking the AP rules was generally wasted as Custodes don't have a lot of AP -1/2 and their melee was all -3

- as others have noted MDs are thin on the ground at the start of the game when you want them, more numerous mid-game. I actually didn't use them much cause my list and opponent didn't lend itself to really making use of them. Once the dread was dead I didn't have much I needed to do big damage against.

 
   
Made in fi
Courageous Space Marine Captain






Kyrinov's Icon of Chiros ability seems like a nice way to generate some extra Miracle Dice. It basically doubles your chances of gaining them from morale checks.

Only the insane have strength enough to prosper. Only those who prosper may truly judge what is sane. 
   
Made in ca
Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard






Vancouver, BC

The earlier posts in this thread are making me really lean towards Argent Shroud foot list, as it seems kinda fun to have a bunch of battle sisters screaming across the field suddenly being up in peoples faces to melt them.

Don't really like Repentia, so I probably won't run any, but maybe will do the Mortifiers/Penitent engines, since I do like stompy robots. Though, those don't benefit from the army wide +1 to advance and charge, right? I haven't got a codex yet, just been gleaning what I can from the interwebs.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/05 04:10:50


 warboss wrote:
Is there a permanent stickied thread for Chaos players to complain every time someone/anyone gets models or rules besides them? If not, there should be.
 
   
Made in us
Heroic Senior Officer





Murray, Kentucky

A.T. wrote:
Rynner wrote:
LEGENDS IS LIVE.
RIP Storm Bolter Superiors.
I guess everyone just remember to poke GW in their feedback as appropriate - that options should not be culled for models that exist in the new plastic kits, notably the canoness weapon swaps, seraphim pistols, and sticking a superiors head on a stormbolter model.


Kyrinov... probably not valid anywhere competitively but 22 extra points to get a choice of two moral dice when hunting for 1s. Plus an extra wound and actual contribution in the combat phase.

Good luck, I've been emailing GW for 3 years to allow IG to actually give their sergeants lasguns since we get 10 in the kit and they've yet to give it to us. And that's a simple option mentioned in every single fluff book written about them, an option included in the box, and an option even FW gave their regiments. An option that almost every codex gets (marines, sisters, admech, chaos, Tau, etc. All can take their regular gun on the sarge) If they won't do that, one of the most obvious changes that takes 0 effort on their part and has models for it, I'm not holding my breath on sisters getting stormbolters on their Sarge's back.

Then again, I sent them an email one time pointing out the new Scion box has a holstered hotshot lasgun modeled on the vox operator and flag bearer and they had no problem faqing that in out of the blue so all I figure is the rules team is preventing IG from taking lasguns on our Sarge's out of spite at this point.
   
Made in au
Sister Vastly Superior




 Crazyterran wrote:
The earlier posts in this thread are making me really lean towards Argent Shroud foot list, as it seems kinda fun to have a bunch of battle sisters screaming across the field suddenly being up in peoples faces to melt them.

Don't really like Repentia, so I probably won't run any, but maybe will do the Mortifiers/Penitent engines, since I do like stompy robots. Though, those don't benefit from the army wide +1 to advance and charge, right? I haven't got a codex yet, just been gleaning what I can from the interwebs.
They don't have the Sacred Rites ability, no.
   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Waaaghpower wrote:

So, those 30 ork boyz (costing 210 points) took a 180 point model down from full health to 1/3rd health in a single turn, with a suboptimal klan and no buffs. Stratagem or buff access easily turns this into a kill.


And how many pts of bss/retributors/etc they would kill with same unit?

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5265 pts
5150 pts
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Made in us
Ancient Space Wolves Venerable Dreadnought




tneva82 wrote:
Waaaghpower wrote:

So, those 30 ork boyz (costing 210 points) took a 180 point model down from full health to 1/3rd health in a single turn, with a suboptimal klan and no buffs. Stratagem or buff access easily turns this into a kill.


And how many pts of bss/retributors/etc they would kill with same unit?

That's a very silly answer.
I was pointing out how completely ridiculous it was to use the shooting ability of an almost pure melee unit as your metric for durability. (I mean, seriously. Comparing the shootiness of Choppa boyz is the next best thing to comparing the shootiness of Khorne Daemons.) Actually breaking down unit-by-unit dps relative to their targets isn't particularly helpful unless you also break down how those units will be used, what their relative value is on the board, how vulnerable they'll be to assault, etc.
   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Waaaghpower wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Waaaghpower wrote:

So, those 30 ork boyz (costing 210 points) took a 180 point model down from full health to 1/3rd health in a single turn, with a suboptimal klan and no buffs. Stratagem or buff access easily turns this into a kill.


And how many pts of bss/retributors/etc they would kill with same unit?

That's a very silly answer.
I was pointing out how completely ridiculous it was to use the shooting ability of an almost pure melee unit as your metric for durability. (I mean, seriously. Comparing the shootiness of Choppa boyz is the next best thing to comparing the shootiness of Khorne Daemons.) Actually breaking down unit-by-unit dps relative to their targets isn't particularly helpful unless you also break down how those units will be used, what their relative value is on the board, how vulnerable they'll be to assault, etc.


And I'm saying it's silly it is to say how vulnerable the model is if it is in fact as durable or even more durable per point than other options. It has 18W for 180W. 10 pts per wound. Same as retributor. Is retributor harder to get wound through than this one?

Much is complained about how fast this dies to heavy bolters etc. But so do regular sisters etc who cost just 1 pts less per wound but have no 4++ nor -1 to hit. So survivability wise that doesn't look that bad. Your regular sister units are losing more points for same shooting.

If you look at durability you need to compare to other things. Not just in vacuum.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/12/05 07:59:52


https://middleagedstrategybattlegamers.home.blog/2020/02/24/tneva82-winter-war-tournament-report/<- lotr painting blog

12 factions for Lord of The Rings
11772 pts(along with lots of unpainted unsorted stuff)
5265 pts
5150 pts
~3200 pts Knights

 
   
Made in gb
Missionary On A Mission



Ottawa

Waaaghpower wrote:
Lemondish wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:


Yeah, if your opponent can manage to get...let's see...

477 slugga boyz within 12", they'll tear through the Triumph like nothing!

If you run the Triumph alongside pretty much any of the more expensive sororitas units like Retributors or Seraphim, the Triumph is a less efficient target than those units for anti-infantry weaponry of basically every profile. I HOPE my opponent throws sluggas, choppa attacks, random heavy bolters, etc the direction of the Triumph - they're demonstrably less effective at attacking it than most every other unit I can field unless, again, I'm bringing a big Valorous Heart bodyspam list with tons of sisters.


Thanks for showing this with actual math. It's surprisingly more durable than I thought. Exalted.

That's a horribly unfair comparison. A unit that isn't designed for shooting, who is hit as much as possible by the -1 to hit, that only has its shooting and not its melee compared is not a good example.


It was the example the other poster used. I'll exalt anything that debunks nonsense hyperbolic suggestions that don't actually happen in games. Follow the conversation closer - the unit wasn't selected because it's an example to show durability, it was selected by a poster making a ridiculous claim.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/05 08:44:38


 
   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





What are people's favourite relics so far looking to be?

Mine are reroll miracle dice and the 2+/can't be wounded better than 4+. Maybe the upgraded blessed blade if facing plenty of W3 models though vs custodians lack of survivability boost is bit of a worry when they are rocking 3++ to reduce the damage output.

The 9" bubble could also be cool if I don't run 3 imagiers or maybe even with it.

Warlord trait wise not seeing much use unless I want to build blender canoness. Other than that the extra MD is no brainer.

https://middleagedstrategybattlegamers.home.blog/2020/02/24/tneva82-winter-war-tournament-report/<- lotr painting blog

12 factions for Lord of The Rings
11772 pts(along with lots of unpainted unsorted stuff)
5265 pts
5150 pts
~3200 pts Knights

 
   
Made in gb
Missionary On A Mission



Ottawa

 Sim-Life wrote:


-Valerous Heart Canonesses are a pain to put down. Trajan Valoris went for slay the warlord in the late game. He got one hit through, his buddies tried to finish her off but I kept her up with Divine Intervention, Trajan used Moment Shackle to attack again, got 3 damage through, miracle'd a 6+++, passed one normally then used Moment of Grace to pass the third by increasing a 5 to a 6.


Great breakdown, but I sadly do not think you can miracle wound shrug :(
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins






Scranton

Lemondish wrote:
 Sim-Life wrote:


-Valerous Heart Canonesses are a pain to put down. Trajan Valoris went for slay the warlord in the late game. He got one hit through, his buddies tried to finish her off but I kept her up with Divine Intervention, Trajan used Moment Shackle to attack again, got 3 damage through, miracle'd a 6+++, passed one normally then used Moment of Grace to pass the third by increasing a 5 to a 6.


Great breakdown, but I sadly do not think you can miracle wound shrug :(


Yea... i don't think you can use MD on FNPs... or the strat on the FNPs for that matter

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/05 11:36:11


 
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot





Waaaghpower wrote:
Lemondish wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:


Yeah, if your opponent can manage to get...let's see...

477 slugga boyz within 12", they'll tear through the Triumph like nothing!

If you run the Triumph alongside pretty much any of the more expensive sororitas units like Retributors or Seraphim, the Triumph is a less efficient target than those units for anti-infantry weaponry of basically every profile. I HOPE my opponent throws sluggas, choppa attacks, random heavy bolters, etc the direction of the Triumph - they're demonstrably less effective at attacking it than most every other unit I can field unless, again, I'm bringing a big Valorous Heart bodyspam list with tons of sisters.


Thanks for showing this with actual math. It's surprisingly more durable than I thought. Exalted.

That's a horribly unfair comparison. A unit that isn't designed for shooting, who is hit as much as possible by the -1 to hit, that only has its shooting and not its melee compared is not a good example.

The math is also incorrect. He seems to have forgotten that Orks get extra shots on an unmodified 6 to hit - By my calculations, it takes only 420 shoota attacks to kill the Triumph.

Here's a better comparison: Let's have 30 of those same Ork Boyz charge after they shoot, and let's give them an actual Klan. (Say, Deff Skullz, not even a particularly good Klan when trying to maximize dps.)

So, first the pistols attack. Taking into account Dakka Dakka Dakka and the free reroll to-hit and to-wound, you get 6 hits and 1.5 wounds.
Then, they charge. The sisters kill less than half an Ork with overwatch.
The Orks attack. 90 attacks gets 11 more failed saved.

So, those 30 ork boyz (costing 210 points) took a 180 point model down from full health to 1/3rd health in a single turn, with a suboptimal klan and no buffs. Stratagem or buff access easily turns this into a kill.


So first off, two things. 1, I was specifically responding to a poster claiming that they were worried "ork pistols would tear through that thing". I'm sorry in my jokey reply I did not take DDD into account, but to be fair, in yours you forgot 30 ork boyz make 120 attacks, not 90, so Let He Without Mathhammer Sin Cast the First Stone.

You know what other 180-ish point characters 30 ork boyz getting their full shooting and melee off on kill? Like, most of them, man. Hive Tyrant takes 11/12 wounds with average rolls and almost always costs over 200. Great Unclean one takes 14/18 wounds, and he costs like 275. Ork boyz over the 20 model mark are one of the most efficient units at murdering things in melee in the entire game if you suppose they just appear there and they all get to make their attacks. You have to get to T5+ 2+sv 7+ wounds to survive 30 orks.

The way to avoid that happening would be to put something, anything in front of the triumph to screen it. Heavy Flamer Retributors maybe? An Immolator? Basic "playing a real game of warhammer 40,000" stuff.

This is why I hate internet tactics discussion sometimes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
tneva82 wrote:
What are people's favourite relics so far looking to be?

Mine are reroll miracle dice and the 2+/can't be wounded better than 4+. Maybe the upgraded blessed blade if facing plenty of W3 models though vs custodians lack of survivability boost is bit of a worry when they are rocking 3++ to reduce the damage output.

The 9" bubble could also be cool if I don't run 3 imagiers or maybe even with it.

Warlord trait wise not seeing much use unless I want to build blender canoness. Other than that the extra MD is no brainer.


I think the Iron Suplice of St. Istaela is not only great, but also sounds like the finishing move for a pro wrestler which makes it extra fantastic. Litany+Beacon is going to be the standard for el cheapo canoness, Iron Suplice+chainsword for the canoness who is still very cheap but also can tank certain big units unexpectedly, and Blade of Admonition+Brazier+Righteous Rage for smash canoness.

The only order-specific stuff I'd consider is bloody rose for an alternate melee canoness build. 8 S4 AP-3 D2 melee attacks that reroll to wound and she's still only 45pts, that's a pretty spicy meatball.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/05 13:11:09


 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






Falls Church, VA

I kind of want to fit Kyrinov into my Argent Shroud list, fishing for 1s on Morale. I am even tempted to give him the +3" relic.

As for Legends/Storm Bolters, I'm not planning to rebase my metal Sisters, so cutting Storm Bolters off of them to make them more legal for tournament play seems naff. I plan to keep them, and my Canoness's Combi-Melta.

That said, the second army I am building (out of the plastic girls) is going to be Bloody Rose, I think. Any thoughts on Seraphim? I know the math on Bloody Rose Repentia is pretty cool (which makes me want to get a rhino to carry 8 + Imagifier+repentia superior), but Zephyrim seem like a super cool unit and I've already converted some from my Gemini and the Seraphim in the box.

Some people say they know no fear. What they mean is that they have encountered and conquered it. I, on the other hand, truly know no fear. It is as alien to me as doubt, rage, or mercy.

2nd Concordian Independent Super Heavy Tank Armoured Regiment - 12,376 points
Order of the Luminous Beacon - 2087 points
Nevian Conclave of the Ordo Hereticus - 2002 points 
   
Made in us
Arch Magos w/ 4 Meg of RAM






the_scotsman wrote:


The only order-specific stuff I'd consider is bloody rose for an alternate melee canoness build. 8 S4 AP-3 D2 melee attacks that reroll to wound and she's still only 45pts, that's a pretty spicy meatball.


The casket, relic brazier and relic inferno pistol are all pretty good but are only coincidental if you are already on that order

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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






Falls Church, VA

 Grundz wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:


The only order-specific stuff I'd consider is bloody rose for an alternate melee canoness build. 8 S4 AP-3 D2 melee attacks that reroll to wound and she's still only 45pts, that's a pretty spicy meatball.


The casket, relic brazier and relic inferno pistol are all pretty good but are only coincidental if you are already on that order


The only Order relic I'm super envious of as Argent Shroud is the Inferno Pistol, but that's mostly because I like having loads of melta, not because it's super meaningful (though it is, as you mentioned, good).

Some people say they know no fear. What they mean is that they have encountered and conquered it. I, on the other hand, truly know no fear. It is as alien to me as doubt, rage, or mercy.

2nd Concordian Independent Super Heavy Tank Armoured Regiment - 12,376 points
Order of the Luminous Beacon - 2087 points
Nevian Conclave of the Ordo Hereticus - 2002 points 
   
Made in us
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 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Grundz wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:


The only order-specific stuff I'd consider is bloody rose for an alternate melee canoness build. 8 S4 AP-3 D2 melee attacks that reroll to wound and she's still only 45pts, that's a pretty spicy meatball.


The casket, relic brazier and relic inferno pistol are all pretty good but are only coincidental if you are already on that order


The only Order relic I'm super envious of as Argent Shroud is the Inferno Pistol, but that's mostly because I like having loads of melta, not because it's super meaningful (though it is, as you mentioned, good).


Ive been talking about a dice-churn list and the relic brazier being able to reload and fire every turn for a couple mortal wounds at the cost of one dice you don't care about seems pretty okay
I don't see a list that doesn't have one aura/command rod canoness with probably the relic bolt pistol and two melee canonesses happening though, they are just stellar for 45 points and a pretty good anchor for counter charging especially in groups

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Falls Church, VA

 Grundz wrote:
 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Grundz wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:


The only order-specific stuff I'd consider is bloody rose for an alternate melee canoness build. 8 S4 AP-3 D2 melee attacks that reroll to wound and she's still only 45pts, that's a pretty spicy meatball.


The casket, relic brazier and relic inferno pistol are all pretty good but are only coincidental if you are already on that order


The only Order relic I'm super envious of as Argent Shroud is the Inferno Pistol, but that's mostly because I like having loads of melta, not because it's super meaningful (though it is, as you mentioned, good).


Ive been talking about a dice-churn list and the relic brazier being able to reload and fire every turn for a couple mortal wounds at the cost of one dice you don't care about seems pretty okay
I don't see a list that doesn't have one aura/command rod canoness with probably the relic bolt pistol and two melee canonesses happening though, they are just stellar for 45 points and a pretty good anchor for counter charging especially in groups


I have all 3 melee canonesses and no Rod. The Rod doesn't actually do much for you, because it only works on her RR1s ability, and if you have 3 then you have pretty excellent coverage. I've even been considering dropping the +3" range book and the Warlord Trait for the 5++, because the extra +1 invuln hasn't hardly come up in the games I've played; they've been such whirlwinds with Argent Shroud that it doesn't look like it's needed. Probably would be great with Celestine for a 4++ though.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/05 14:59:21


Some people say they know no fear. What they mean is that they have encountered and conquered it. I, on the other hand, truly know no fear. It is as alien to me as doubt, rage, or mercy.

2nd Concordian Independent Super Heavy Tank Armoured Regiment - 12,376 points
Order of the Luminous Beacon - 2087 points
Nevian Conclave of the Ordo Hereticus - 2002 points 
   
Made in us
Arch Magos w/ 4 Meg of RAM






 Unit1126PLL wrote:

I have all 3 melee canonesses and no Rod. The Rod doesn't actually do much for you, because it only works on her RR1s ability, and if you have 3 then you have pretty excellent coverage. I've even been considering dropping the +3" range book and the Warlord Trait for the 5++, because the extra +1 invuln hasn't hardly come up in the games I've played; they've been such whirlwinds with Argent Shroud that it doesn't look like it's needed. Probably would be great with Celestine for a 4++ though.


ah I haven't fine tooth combed the book yet, been busy with painting the models, I didn't realise that the rod didn't effect her warlord trait

in that case then thats a tough sell to take the bolt pistol relic for a "hang back" canoness when you can just put the warlord trait on a imagifier whom will be surrounded by bodyguards anyway


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also don't discount the casket, it brings T8 gargets down to 3+ / (2+ bloody rose) to wound territory for repentia

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/12/05 15:28:58


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Decrepit Dakkanaut





One thing i'm enjoying about sisters is internal balance seems to be surprisingly good. No glaringly bad units like nob bikers and killa kans for orks. I can see myself using bigger % of units than with orks. Particularly good with small number of units we have

https://middleagedstrategybattlegamers.home.blog/2020/02/24/tneva82-winter-war-tournament-report/<- lotr painting blog

12 factions for Lord of The Rings
11772 pts(along with lots of unpainted unsorted stuff)
5265 pts
5150 pts
~3200 pts Knights

 
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot





tneva82 wrote:
One thing i'm enjoying about sisters is internal balance seems to be surprisingly good. No glaringly bad units like nob bikers and killa kans for orks. I can see myself using bigger % of units than with orks. Particularly good with small number of units we have


Personally, I think there's a tiny bit of an ogryn/bullgryn situation going on with Mortifiers and Penitents - basically, Morties get a whole host of fancy pantsy special powers for a very cheap price and they just so happen to be the one nobody already has in their model collection... Penitents don't seem awful, but a tiny number of points to give one of them a 3+ save, give them WS3+ (ok, zealot makes that not matter too much) and get the snazzy heavy bolter/pistol ability seems pretty cheap.

Dominions also don't seem super great, I think the big reason to go for them a unit with 4x storm bolters to use the blessed bolts strat. They seem alright in ardent shroud. Most of the time though I'd reach for retributors or celestians.

Zephyrim are alright, drop a squad of 5 with a banner in any melee-oriented sisters list and I think you're pretty much set. No real reason to want more of them than that, they're a charge aura and a reroll 1s to wound aura you can plop down onto the board.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Edmonds, WA

I find myself liking Argent Shroud for the one reason i keep hearing on every competitive podcast:

"Games are won in the Movement phase."

Along with Hand of the Emperor, Infantry moving 8" ~ 13" per turn AND still firing has some definite advantages.

   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





the_scotsman wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
One thing i'm enjoying about sisters is internal balance seems to be surprisingly good. No glaringly bad units like nob bikers and killa kans for orks. I can see myself using bigger % of units than with orks. Particularly good with small number of units we have


Personally, I think there's a tiny bit of an ogryn/bullgryn situation going on with Mortifiers and Penitents - basically, Morties get a whole host of fancy pantsy special powers for a very cheap price and they just so happen to be the one nobody already has in their model collection... Penitents don't seem awful, but a tiny number of points to give one of them a 3+ save, give them WS3+ (ok, zealot makes that not matter too much) and get the snazzy heavy bolter/pistol ability seems pretty cheap.

Dominions also don't seem super great, I think the big reason to go for them a unit with 4x storm bolters to use the blessed bolts strat. They seem alright in ardent shroud. Most of the time though I'd reach for retributors or celestians.

Zephyrim are alright, drop a squad of 5 with a banner in any melee-oriented sisters list and I think you're pretty much set. No real reason to want more of them than that, they're a charge aura and a reroll 1s to wound aura you can plop down onto the board.


Oh it's not perfect but even penintent engines are nowhere near killa kan level. And more accuracy is nice. Penitent 75% hits, morti's 66%。

Dominions also do have use thanks to stratagem. 4 sb with -2 dam2 isn't total junk with marine meta.

Zephryms don't seem that bad for punching. Sure s3 but with rerolls better than s4.

And even here it's not junk level like killa kans, necron arachid something(flying guys with melta weapon), pre ca19 praetorians, squigbuggy or heaven forbid stompa. And our terrain at least benefits us. Ork one is so bad opponent might give orks some points and free terrain as long as ork agrees to use it :lol:


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Frowbakk wrote:
I find myself liking Argent Shroud for the one reason i keep hearing on every competitive podcast:

"Games are won in the Movement phase."

Along with Hand of the Emperor, Infantry moving 8" ~ 13" per turn AND still firing has some definite advantages.



Yep. Argent shroud is imo definitely top2 order for competive builds. It's bit different style of mobility as my speedy necron dynasty(which goes faster but is hurt more by advance so uses advance less but when does goes faster and ignores terrain like fly) and i have learned to love that speed.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/05 17:02:37


https://middleagedstrategybattlegamers.home.blog/2020/02/24/tneva82-winter-war-tournament-report/<- lotr painting blog

12 factions for Lord of The Rings
11772 pts(along with lots of unpainted unsorted stuff)
5265 pts
5150 pts
~3200 pts Knights

 
   
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UK

So I'm considering a detachment of Sisters (possibly a whole army), and I had a question. If I was to make an army based around lots of flamers and meltas (which sisters seems a good fit for) is there a recomended Order for it? Ebon Chalice seems like a decent choice, with a related stratagem and the ability to make a miracle dice into a 6 (6 for melta damage when needed?)


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 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Grundz wrote:
 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Grundz wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:


The only order-specific stuff I'd consider is bloody rose for an alternate melee canoness build. 8 S4 AP-3 D2 melee attacks that reroll to wound and she's still only 45pts, that's a pretty spicy meatball.


The casket, relic brazier and relic inferno pistol are all pretty good but are only coincidental if you are already on that order


The only Order relic I'm super envious of as Argent Shroud is the Inferno Pistol, but that's mostly because I like having loads of melta, not because it's super meaningful (though it is, as you mentioned, good).


Ive been talking about a dice-churn list and the relic brazier being able to reload and fire every turn for a couple mortal wounds at the cost of one dice you don't care about seems pretty okay
I don't see a list that doesn't have one aura/command rod canoness with probably the relic bolt pistol and two melee canonesses happening though, they are just stellar for 45 points and a pretty good anchor for counter charging especially in groups


I have all 3 melee canonesses and no Rod. The Rod doesn't actually do much for you, because it only works on her RR1s ability, and if you have 3 then you have pretty excellent coverage. I've even been considering dropping the +3" range book and the Warlord Trait for the 5++, because the extra +1 invuln hasn't hardly come up in the games I've played; they've been such whirlwinds with Argent Shroud that it doesn't look like it's needed. Probably would be great with Celestine for a 4++ though.


Do the book and Rod not work for the +1 invuln WL trao
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Mavnas wrote:
 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Grundz wrote:
 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Grundz wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:


The only order-specific stuff I'd consider is bloody rose for an alternate melee canoness build. 8 S4 AP-3 D2 melee attacks that reroll to wound and she's still only 45pts, that's a pretty spicy meatball.


The casket, relic brazier and relic inferno pistol are all pretty good but are only coincidental if you are already on that order


The only Order relic I'm super envious of as Argent Shroud is the Inferno Pistol, but that's mostly because I like having loads of melta, not because it's super meaningful (though it is, as you mentioned, good).


Ive been talking about a dice-churn list and the relic brazier being able to reload and fire every turn for a couple mortal wounds at the cost of one dice you don't care about seems pretty okay
I don't see a list that doesn't have one aura/command rod canoness with probably the relic bolt pistol and two melee canonesses happening though, they are just stellar for 45 points and a pretty good anchor for counter charging especially in groups


I have all 3 melee canonesses and no Rod. The Rod doesn't actually do much for you, because it only works on her RR1s ability, and if you have 3 then you have pretty excellent coverage. I've even been considering dropping the +3" range book and the Warlord Trait for the 5++, because the extra +1 invuln hasn't hardly come up in the games I've played; they've been such whirlwinds with Argent Shroud that it doesn't look like it's needed. Probably would be great with Celestine for a 4++ though.


Do the book and Rod not work for the +1 invuln WL trao
It?


Book does, Rod doesn't.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Niiru wrote:
So I'm considering a detachment of Sisters (possibly a whole army), and I had a question. If I was to make an army based around lots of flamers and meltas (which sisters seems a good fit for) is there a recomended Order for it? Ebon Chalice seems like a decent choice, with a related stratagem and the ability to make a miracle dice into a 6 (6 for melta damage when needed?)



The whole army is built around meltas. Putting meltas on stuff is a stock standard aspect of Sisters and works in basically any conviction.

It comes down to what type of meltas you want. Inferno Pistols? Bloody rose or Argent Shroud. Regular Melta squads? Argent shroud or Valorous Heart. Multimeltas? Valorous Heart or Argent Shroud. Even then, they work fine in SR, EC, and OoML.

Flamers are a little different because you're constantly fighting against how badly flamers suck. For hand flamers, basically ONLY bloody rose. For standard flamers...take stormbolters and pretend they were flamers. For Heavy flamers, Argent Shroud will get you the best chance to actually use them, but the Ebon Chalice strat is incredibly good.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
the_scotsman wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
One thing i'm enjoying about sisters is internal balance seems to be surprisingly good. No glaringly bad units like nob bikers and killa kans for orks. I can see myself using bigger % of units than with orks. Particularly good with small number of units we have


Personally, I think there's a tiny bit of an ogryn/bullgryn situation going on with Mortifiers and Penitents - basically, Morties get a whole host of fancy pantsy special powers for a very cheap price and they just so happen to be the one nobody already has in their model collection... Penitents don't seem awful, but a tiny number of points to give one of them a 3+ save, give them WS3+ (ok, zealot makes that not matter too much) and get the snazzy heavy bolter/pistol ability seems pretty cheap.

Dominions also don't seem super great, I think the big reason to go for them a unit with 4x storm bolters to use the blessed bolts strat. They seem alright in ardent shroud. Most of the time though I'd reach for retributors or celestians.

Zephyrim are alright, drop a squad of 5 with a banner in any melee-oriented sisters list and I think you're pretty much set. No real reason to want more of them than that, they're a charge aura and a reroll 1s to wound aura you can plop down onto the board.


Disagree about Zephyrim, under bloody rose they're killy as F*** in practice. I take 10 and don't bother with the banner or reroll 1s to wound.

I usually ignore the buffs because only 2 other units in the army really care: repentia, who have much easier access to the same buffs with their superior, and Mortifiers who take care of business just fine on their own honestly.

Remember, these are a melee unit that with 1cp will kill 2 full squads of intercessors, 2 primaris librarians, a smash captain, 4ish aggressors or 5+ assault centurions, while being able to GUARANTEE a successful charge, even outside of 11" flamer overwatch with a bit of luck.

And if they're in range to get the reroll charge/reroll 1s to wound aura, they're likely ALSO in range of +1S reroll 1s to hit at which point they'll decimate anything less than T8 that doesn't have a super high invul. Imagine dropping down and wrapping up a wave serpent with a 12" charge+pile-in and using our fancy new 32mm base to deny disembarking after their 31 Ap-4 attacks pop it like a balloon, Or just pull a Hemlock Wraithfighter out of the sky. Get a missionary in there for the luls if you so desire as well.

Basically anything with a good armor save and no/bad invul has to be terrified of Zephyrim...provided they can survive the overwatch.

Also about the penitents, don't forget that their 5+ invul makes them much more survivable than mortis, even account for the 3+ save leader and their 6+FNP.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Unit1126PLL wrote:
I kind of want to fit Kyrinov into my Argent Shroud list, fishing for 1s on Morale. I am even tempted to give him the +3" relic.

As for Legends/Storm Bolters, I'm not planning to rebase my metal Sisters, so cutting Storm Bolters off of them to make them more legal for tournament play seems naff. I plan to keep them, and my Canoness's Combi-Melta.

That said, the second army I am building (out of the plastic girls) is going to be Bloody Rose, I think. Any thoughts on Seraphim? I know the math on Bloody Rose Repentia is pretty cool (which makes me want to get a rhino to carry 8 + Imagifier+repentia superior), but Zephyrim seem like a super cool unit and I've already converted some from my Gemini and the Seraphim in the box.


Zephyrim are a fantastic scalpel unit that see massive ROI on miracle dice and Bloody rose Seraphim are the nastiest deepstrike surprise you could possibly buy for 83-88pts.

Zephyrim are hilarious against flyer lists, especially with decent LoS terrain. A unit of 10 will kill a Hemlocke/CHE most of the time. Bonus points for the Hemlocke likely being close enough to give the Zephyrim +1 S Reroll 1s, +1 Attack, at which point they'd kill TWO.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/12/05 20:37:54


2500pts
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Why doesn't this tactica have all the units ranked like all the other tactica threads? Or is that rank in another thread?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Drider wrote:
Anyone else notice that the canoness in the box has an illegal load out according to the sheet in the codex?


How so? I don't see what's wrong with her loadout?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/05 21:06:06


 
   
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 Togusa wrote:
Why doesn't this tactica have all the units ranked like all the other tactica threads? Or is that rank in another thread?
Several reasons, but the newness of the Codex and the fact that a lot of our army has the same basic profile and weapon options make such a list have little meaning.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Drider wrote:
Anyone else notice that the canoness in the box has an illegal load out according to the sheet in the codex?


How so? I don't see what's wrong with her loadout?
Can't have the Rod and Plasma Pistol.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/12/05 21:44:49


 
   
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Lammia wrote:
 Togusa wrote:
Why doesn't this tactica have all the units ranked like all the other tactica threads? Or is that rank in another thread?
Several reasons, but the newness of the Codex and the fact that a lot of our army has the same basic profile and weapon options make such a list have little meaning.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Drider wrote:
Anyone else notice that the canoness in the box has an illegal load out according to the sheet in the codex?


How so? I don't see what's wrong with her loadout?
Cant have the Rod and Plasma Pistol.


The Canoness data sheet says they can take one thing from the pistol list to replace their bolt pistol. I don't see the problem.
   
 
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