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 Xenomancers wrote:
Would be cool to use a storm raven but without the -2 it is utterly unplayable.

GK can kick the Raven from edge to edge in a turn with their new spell. You can come from the back corner to near a friendly unit upfield and in the psychic phase shoot and then move 45" out of threat range.

the_scotsman wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Would be cool to use a storm raven but without the -2 it is utterly unplayable.

Right, which is why we never see Stormravens in different factions of marines or at different points of the 40k competitive meta, like that time there were so many of them they created the Boots on the Ground rule to combat their spamming, or the time right now where they occasionally feature in competitive IH lists.

Uhh maybe before armies had codex. They havnt been a thing since then. Plus been nerfed significantly in price too. No reason to bring an Ironhands storm raven. A storm hawk is an easy 100 point discount and has the same weapons for the cost of 3 total wounds but gets reroll 1's for saves and an additional -1 against flyers. They just cost too much and their transport ability is pretty worthless too. Anything you put in there just dies 1/6 when the thing inevitably blows up. The only reason I can think anyone would use it is to let it blow with the stratagem for d6 mortal wounds...which is also pretty useless because you can just move away from it.

There was a time where fireraptors were a thing but they also got nerfed...right after they got dropped. They are pretty awful. You can't even hide them. Ironhands can also give the thing -1 damage turn 1 and heal the thing with psychic powers. As with everything - it's just better as Ironhands. With the way transports work you pay a premium to basically be a turn 1 bunker which you don't need. Just hide in a building. Boots on the ground also didn't stop competitive eldar lists from bringing 6 flyers ether. The reason SR weren't played is because they are bad - as were marines. Interestingly enough - A GK SR is also the worst storm raven - as it doesn't get doctrines or benefit from all but 1 of 4 of the tides.


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 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Would be cool to use a storm raven but without the -2 it is utterly unplayable.

GK can kick the Raven from edge to edge in a turn with their new spell. You can come from the back corner to near a friendly unit upfield and in the psychic phase shoot and then move 45" out of threat range.

Even if you could manage to hide it. It is still inferior to a storm hawk in that roll. It might hit a little better but it also costs 100 more points. FFS for it's cost you can get a storm surge. It needs to come down about 50 points to be considered.

 wuestenfux wrote:

stormcraft wrote:
RAW your Landraider gets -1 as soon as it only touches Terrain with the edge of its tracks.
The BRB FAQ states clearly that only if the rule says "WHOLLY within" then you need the whole base/modell.

But Tide of shadows says entirely within, that is copy/pasted from the general Cover Rule, and that gives you cover (or -1 to hit in this case) as soon as a part of the modell/base is in terrain.

Maybe they FAQ this later, for now our LRs and SRs just need to touch a Terrain Piece for Cover and -1 to hit

My opponents will certainly object.
Within or completely within is the question.
But when it comes to terrain/cover, completely within will be the right formulation.
They will certainly change it.

Why do you assume this was an oversight or mistake? They do something to make Land Raiders viable for the worst faction in the game and someone objects? them

In GK case every oversight, like for example GW forgeting that interceptors dont have fly, so the fly change to charge won't affect them, ends as an oversight and not something GW deliberatly planed.

But who knows, GW sometimes does errata and FAQs that are so unexpected it is hard to pin point why they are done.

 Xenomancers wrote:


Even if you could manage to hide it. It is still inferior to a storm hawk in that roll. It might hit a little better but it also costs 100 more points. FFS for it's cost you can get a storm surge. It needs to come down about 50 points to be considered.

Even 48" guns cannot cover 90" of movement in a turn.

But they don't have to when most tables are 60x48.

Karol wrote:
But they don't have to when most tables are 60x48.

72x48

The reason to take a stormraven over one of the other flyers is for the hurricane bolter sponsons, which in GK’s case benefit from psybolt ammo.

Well, in the world of IH and Imperial/Crimson Fists I wouldn't take tanks (flyers) if necessary.
We are better off with infantry these days.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, in the world of IH and Imperial/Crimson Fists I wouldn't take tanks (flyers) if necessary.
We are better off with infantry these days.

What do you take for anti-vehicle then?

If you remove LR and SR, other than 'dreads and razorbacks GK doesn't really have much anti-vehicle shooting.

S5, D3+1 Psilencers with reroll to wounds is pretty effective at removing armour.
A single Psilencer Squad does 10 Wound to Knight in ToC with Bring down the Beats...and thats a 89 Point Squad.

 Lord Clinto wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, in the world of IH and Imperial/Crimson Fists I wouldn't take tanks (flyers) if necessary.
We are better off with infantry these days.

What do you take for anti-vehicle then?

If you remove LR and SR, other than 'dreads and razorbacks GK doesn't really have much anti-vehicle shooting.

Well, flyers and LR usually approach the enemy which (in case of the above armies) castles up.
This could be bad news due to their special rules.
Its better to keep the anti-tank in the back field.

stormcraft wrote:
S5, D3+1 Psilencers with reroll to wounds is pretty effective at removing armour.
A single Psilencer Squad does 10 Wound to Knight in ToC with Bring down the Beats...and thats a 89 Point Squad.

And D2 smites. And S9 AP2 D2 Psycannons.

GK have no issues taking down any unit now.

 Lord Clinto wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, in the world of IH and Imperial/Crimson Fists I wouldn't take tanks (flyers) if necessary.
We are better off with infantry these days.

What do you take for anti-vehicle then?

If you remove LR and SR, other than 'dreads and razorbacks GK doesn't really have much anti-vehicle shooting.

Psy cannons will be adequate for that job - basically 2 str 8 autocannons.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

stormcraft wrote:
S5, D3+1 Psilencers with reroll to wounds is pretty effective at removing armour.
A single Psilencer Squad does 10 Wound to Knight in ToC with Bring down the Beats...and thats a 89 Point Squad.

And D2 smites. And S9 AP2 D2 Psycannons.

GK have no issues taking down any unit now.

D2 smites across the board when using that Tide (can't remember the name) is one of the under valued sleeper rules that I've noticed a lot of reviewers etc not touch on as much. It's very easy for GK to kick out 18+ MW each psychic phase now, even more so against Daemons

 NurglesR0T wrote:

even more so against Daemons

Yea. I'm not going anywhere near discordants and possessed, because of it. GW will probably need to change that rule.

Pretty much. 3 casts of 4+ smite to delete a discordant lord is insane.

MSU GK are definitely back in a big way

On the other hand, perhaps it and the ignore hit modifier Litany will rein in the Possessed bomb hiding behind a -4 to hit Lord Discordant.

Well, it's not like the possessed bomb has done much so far (though Flat 4 Damage smites aren't something the Disco Lord or the Possessed like, lol).

It does have a few counter. Kraken Genestealers eat the Possessed. Vect has the Possessed's numbers. Forlorn Fury Death Company murder Possessed. Even in the Mirror-Match a Warp-time Morty or Disco Lord is bad news. Dark Reapers don't care one way or another.

It's just that Codex Marines (and I guess Tau and Necrons) have a rough match-up against the Possessed, which makes it interesting if everyone happens to be playing Codex Marines.

You only have a rough matchup against Possessed if you're super bad at the game. Yawn.

The only Tides that will be used are the cover one against a super shooty army and the +1MW against anything else or an army that just straight ignores cover. The other two are strictly jokes. Those alone are nice for the pure army, but the new rules for nothing to fix the fact Terminators are straight up worse than Paladins, nor does it fix the fact all the base PA units have the A1 characteristic.

GK have shock assault so they're basically 2 attacks

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
You only have a rough matchup against Possessed if you're super bad at the game. Yawn.

I think counterplay is possible. You can tank smites on Nurglings with a 5+++. If you're running an Epitome, it shrugs MWs on 2's and can resurrect for 2CP. And of course Chaos has a lot of access to abilities that hurt Psykers, like periling on doubles within 12" of a MoP, forcing 2D3 MW through Daemons stratagems, debuff and denial, etc.

It sounds like a pretty fun matchup, honestly. Though of course I'm looking at it from the perspective of the Possessed bomb player.

 fraser1191 wrote:
GK have shock assault so they're basically 2 attacks

3 because almost everyone uses falchions anyway.

Bit off topic, I just checked out the GK store. Was toying with the idea of buying some 2nd hand GKs potentially to paint.

It seems they only have 2 kits available - Terminators/paladins and strikes. (plus all the characters obv)

So does this mean there's a bunch of options in the codex there's no models for ?

Like interceptors purifiers.

 Argive wrote:
Bit off topic, I just checked out the GK store. Was toying with the idea of buying some 2nd hand GKs potentially to paint.

It seems they only have 2 kits available - Terminators/paladins and strikes. (plus all the characters obv)

So does this mean there's a bunch of options in the codex there's no models for ?

Like interceptors purifiers.

No the strike box can be built as interceptors etc

 Argive wrote:
Bit off topic, I just checked out the GK store. Was toying with the idea of buying some 2nd hand GKs potentially to paint.

It seems they only have 2 kits available - Terminators/paladins and strikes. (plus all the characters obv)

So does this mean there's a bunch of options in the codex there's no models for ?

Like interceptors purifiers.

Interceptors are just a different backpack for Strikes, and Purifiers are just a different paint job.

 NurglesR0T wrote:
Pretty much. 3 casts of 4+ smite to delete a discordant lord is insane.

MSU GK are definitely back in a big way

A Disco lord at -4 to hit is insane. It deserves to be countered by something equally insane IMO.

Honestly its the first time in a long time that GK have looked like they might frighten the things they are supposed to frighten - anything with the Daemon keyword. No need to change that.

There's also a Litany that lets GK ignore to-hit modifiers, so you can just sit back, shoot the Lord Discordant and then finish it with smites.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
There's also a Litany that lets GK ignore to-hit modifiers, so you can just sit back, shoot the Lord Discordant and then finish it with smites.

Disco lord isn't a demon, but his mount is! Go balls deep with those 4 DMG smites.

MiguelFelstone wrote:
Disco lord isn't a demon, but his mount is! Go balls deep with those 4 DMG smites.

It has the Daemon keyword, which is all that matters and almost no defense vs Smite spam. GK will obliterate him, and quite likely the Possessed behind him. If it didn't get nerfed in the first FAQ post-F&F it's probably not getting nerfed. But please continue with the conjecture argument.