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Grey40k wrote:

I think it is an extremely bad idea to try to put us, consumers, in the shoes of a giant company like GW. Let them do the business, we do the playing and collecting.

You rant an awful lot for someone who holds that opinion. But it's really easy....
*Play the game as long as you find it fun. If you're not having fun? Quit.
*Buy/build/paint the minis if you like them.
*Hope for rules to support the minis you've got (assuming your playing).
**And, VERY important, develop actual friendships with some people who like the same games etc as you do. That way? When your favorite company eventually does screw things up to the point you no longer buy from them? (or they fade out - of business, popularity, or both - as so many companies/games do) You can keep right on gaming & not be beholden to the tourney scene, the current edition, or people showing up at the local shop/club.

On the phasing out of classic marines. Maybe someday. But that day isn't here in 9e.

Grey40k wrote:
If they cannot manage their business in a profitable manner without "phasing out" miniatures, which is a move, then for all I care they can go under; then they would make room for someone who knows how to do business better.

LOL. Say whatever you like about GW, even considering that dark WHFB 8e & 40k 6th/7th period (and that odd moment when AoS lacked pts....), but they do know their business. Certainly better than you do. It's why they're still here while & why they're so big.

Cap'n Failboat wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
Do you think those dudes look like proper SW? They're SM painted in light blue

TBF, they look like 90% of pre-Primaris SW units available and models were generally just SM with a paint job, wolfey bits, and rules differences. Yes, the "upgrade" sprue needs waaaay better expansion. Yes, lack of SW specific units would reduce the army's character. No, I don't want the abnormal three FF chapters to become represented as all the codex compliant ones are.y.

tyhat said the upgrade sprue isn't even THAT big an issue until they retire the wolf pack box, a pack of blood claws will give you 15 first born marines you can use for whatever you might want, and plenty of left over bits of heads etc for Primaris. take that, combine with a bit of green stuff, and you're in a good position.

 Blackie wrote:


Do you think those dudes look like proper SW? They're SM painted in light blue

I think some of them do. I think some of them look like proper SW Rookies. I think the number of extra bits for "mass produced" armor was a little extreme. I think the wolf pelt loincloth is way better than a wolf skull chest device. I think all of the chapter specific upgrade packs are a little underwhelming. I think the wolf specific bits are just like the roman kilts, for Ultramarines - battle/rank/honor badges that should be used sparingly.

At the moment the SW upgrade for primaris is a joke, basically 10ish shoulder pads and 3 heads. No dedicated backpacks and little details. Weapons are the same one than any other primaris. Lol. The grey hunters box alone has 20ish heads, 20ish shoulder pads, 5 (IIRC) backpacks, customized weapons with built-in wolfy details, torsos and legs also with built-in wolfy details, plus several little wolfy bitz to add. And that's only the troop kits, many other boxes have tons of bitz that are perfectly interchangeable with those that I listed.

Maybe more will come, I hope it since right now I really struggle to see the SW theme in primaris models. Give me 20ish bare viking looking heads, a dedicated SW dread, a dedicated SW intercessor box, wulfen and TWC primaris equivalents, an extra couple of SW primaris HQs and we could talk.

SW - surprisingly - are furthest behind on the switch over. And it's going to be exacerbated by the codex merge. Everyone is going to have the same line with only a handful of uniques. My UM supplement was Gman, Calgar, Tiggy, and some stuff they didn't want to move to legends until the backstock is lower. I think Cassius is either not long for this fictional world, or going to Deathwatch full time as a Primaris Chaplain. I think the Tyrranic War Vets go with him. The old Honor Guard including the Chapter Ancient and Chapter Champion will go with the old marines. I think the Bladeguard are the Honor Guard, Chapter Ancient, and the Judiciar is the Chapter Champion - Tempor Mortis vs Martial Superiority Skillful parry vs blade parry? Not a doubt in my mind I'm going to lose a lot of my Special Flavor stuff with the codex merge, and again when old marines become legendary. Not a doubt in my mind the rest of the chapters are going to lose a lot of theirs in exchange for a few of mine. You're going to get some cosmetic changes, maybe some FOC slot shennanigans, maybe a couple bonus rules just when your chapter takes Unit XYZ, but they're going to all be homogenized at least a little.

 spiralingcadaver wrote:

There are so, so many armies that could see some real releases before a well-supported Marine line gets like a half-dozen kits tooled. The SW line has so many parts to work with (as you mentioned), it's ridiculous. Just kitbash some extra pelts etc.

SW have like a dozen substantial kits that in many cases just exist to be cosmetic differences from their regular counterparts, almost all of which are relatively new kits, and have like dozen special characters too. CSM currently have 2/4 iconic cult units and most of their subfactions without models that have seen updates in the past ~20 years, and probably collectively around as many special characters as SW. IG have lost all but about 1.5 of their lines. Eldar haven't had a real kit (just an awkward conversion pack) to represent one of their core troops since literally 2nd edition, and their entire model subfaction differentiation consists of special characters, many of which are ancient.

I get you want new toys now, but SW are far from poorly supported.

You misunderstood me completely. I don't want new toys because I already own a SW army and I'm not gonna re-buy a completely new one, no matter what models GW releases. I'm pissed that when (and if) old marines are going to be out of production the standalone chapters will look like generic marines. I know I can kitbash stuff, but someone that starts SW when old marines have been already phased out couldn't do it. Unless GW releases dedicated chapters stuff which doesn't seem very likely and merging standalone chapters' codexes into the vanilla one is another proof of that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mr Morden wrote:


Personally I was hoping most of the Wolfy Wolf stuff faded away - like the nightmare it was. Space wolves started as a little more than colour and IMO has devolved more and more over the decades.

I know, there are people who can't stand the wolfy theme. For me it's the only reason I could like a SM chapter.

 Blackie wrote:


I know, there are people who can't stand the wolfy theme. For me it's the only reason I could like a SM chapter.

As a non-staunch SW player I don't care about the wolfy wolfness. I DO care about the over fetishness that Grimdark Marines were slipping into and I was happy Primaris had stepped away from that. Seems I was wrong.

While I didn't ever go "Space Wolf" I do own a bunch of their models for economic reasons, I got an Assault Cannon and Heavy Flamer in one Terminator box set for example and have been building an army to follow on the theme I was stuck with. I'm finally getting around to assembly and painting said army just in time for it to be retired.


I'm not anti animal skin, I just think they'd gone a tad overkill on it. The new "Space Wolf" Primaris is more in line with how Viking warriors actually dressed. Slim armour with a fetish or amulet or such, not overly bearskinned or befurred. I don't think the solution to should be "model your own or STFU". I do think they should have a better supply of faction specific additions and extra weapons, but that's where things like Forgeworld came from. If there is a demand the free market will provide.

I think expecting a company to provide for every esoteric wish is impractical. Look at cars. You get a couple of basic choices, you get new models released all the time with only minor improvements or enhancements and you do get limited lifespans on them. If you want anything else you have to get it aftermarket. You can't expect Toyota to still produce a 1998 Supra with 26" low profiles, a T4/5 ceramic turbo in luminous purple with undercar lighting and a 23oz Nos system with custom leather interior because you owned one back in the day. It isn't feasable. You can buy a 2020Supra if you want one.

I'm not up to speed on the Primaris lore because I was one of the people resistant to having my two Marine armies trashed on a whim replaced by "trashy new" models who's design sucks. Before the M40 ->M41 timeskip wasn't there some Legions that were resistant to Primaris inclusion? Have they turned away from that? Are they unanimously accepted now in the core Lore? Because until that happens the Firstborn aren't going anywhere. Not while GW can still sell them at least.