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Made in gb
Perfect Shot Dark Angels Predator Pilot





Except it's not a FnP

 
   
Made in us
Did Fulgrim Just Behead Ferrus?




Noctis Labyrinthus

Claas wrote:


If you don’t not like the game then why not move on? Why do the mods allow every thread to be highjacked. It’s killing Dakka


Disagreeing with the premise of the topic is posting on-topic.

You don't like it when people disagree? Feel free to leave.
   
Made in ie
Grisly Ghost Ark Driver





 BroodSpawn wrote:
Except it's not a FnP


Semantics. You roll after enemy attacks same as FnP



https://mobile.twitter.com/SewerWatch 
   
Made in ie
Regular Dakkanaut






 Void__Dragon wrote:
Claas wrote:


If you don’t not like the game then why not move on? Why do the mods allow every thread to be highjacked. It’s killing Dakka


Disagreeing with the premise of the topic is posting on-topic.

You don't like it when people disagree? Feel free to leave.


Disagreeing with the premise of an Ork tactics thread and discussing Marine tactics instead is off topic.

If the topic of the thread is for people who are excited by the releases to discuss them, then that's the topic. If you don't agree, and aren't happy about things that's fine, but why insist on posting in this one? You don't like the topic, don't get involved. There's no need to try and bring down the mood in here.

Start a thread about everything that's bad about the game where you can discuss with other people of a like mind. I'll happily stay out of it.

At the end of the day, why attack someone else's enjoyment of the game and releases?

   
Made in gb
Frenzied Berserker Terminator




 Sentineil wrote:
 Void__Dragon wrote:
Claas wrote:


If you don’t not like the game then why not move on? Why do the mods allow every thread to be highjacked. It’s killing Dakka


Disagreeing with the premise of the topic is posting on-topic.

You don't like it when people disagree? Feel free to leave.


Disagreeing with the premise of an Ork tactics thread and discussing Marine tactics instead is off topic.

If the topic of the thread is for people who are excited by the releases to discuss them, then that's the topic. If you don't agree, and aren't happy about things that's fine, but why insist on posting in this one? You don't like the topic, don't get involved. There's no need to try and bring down the mood in here.

Start a thread about everything that's bad about the game where you can discuss with other people of a like mind. I'll happily stay out of it.

At the end of the day, why attack someone else's enjoyment of the game and releases?


The issues is there are some people who want others to feel miserable with them and will be negative and drag others down to have more people to relate to. They want people to feel their pain etc.

Some other people simply will never be happy, to take a relevant point in question. If GW invent 3 new dark eldar hq's, one for each sub-army, it won't be good enough, because it isn't the exact special characters that were taken away, it doesn't add wings/bikes to archons, "it's just GW treating them like marines and making more lieutenants" etc. Etc.

It might not be that they come in here to crap on the OP or topic, just to voice their thoughts for some positive affirmation or to be inflammatory.

Not that it makes it any more appropriate, but might give it context. Likewise I made an example from Vipoid's complaints, but I'm not intending to represent their thoughts, it was just a convenient example. Maybe they would be happy with that.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/09/18 12:53:14


 
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch






I disagree... im very happy for necron players. Genuienly am. I dont begrudge them new models. But at the same time i can say, are the marines really necessary along them? This sugest more marines and less other stuff always..

And i dont understand the need to spin the nareative of everybody hijacking every thread with "derP i ThInK toO MaNy sPaCE mariNes tHErEForE I HAtE sPAcE MaRinES DerP" like itssome sort of conspiracy... its demonstrably a valid gripe so people are allowed to gripe. I certainly gripe from time to time..

The thing is if certain people only say that same thing (i think thats just not true but whatever) and annoys you, whellll... theres a neat little ignore button. But yet people are ironicaly as hard headed the otherway and dont realise it which is funny.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772746.page#10378083 - My progress/failblog painting blog thingy

Eldar- 4436 pts


AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
 
   
Made in ie
Regular Dakkanaut






 Argive wrote:
I disagree... im very happy for necron players. Genuienly am. I dont begrudge them new models. But at the same time i can say, are the marines really necessary along them? This sugest more marines and less other stuff always..

And i dont understand the need to spin the nareative of everybody hijacking every thread with "derP i ThInK toO MaNy sPaCE mariNes tHErEForE I HAtE sPAcE MaRinES DerP" like itssome sort of conspiracy... its demonstrably a valid gripe so people are allowed to gripe. I certainly gripe from time to time..

The thing is if certain people only say that same thing (i think thats just not true but whatever) and annoys you, whellll... theres a neat little ignore button. But yet people are ironicaly as hard headed the otherway and dont realise it which is funny.


Too many marine releases is a valid gripe. It's not a valid gripe in every thread though, and when someone specifically creates a thread with the aim of celebrating what's good, why do so many insist on coming in to complain?

I really don't understand the mindset behind it, because as far as I can tell it boils down to "I'm not happy, so I don't want others to be".

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/18 13:29:18


   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Sim-Life wrote:
 BroodSpawn wrote:
Except it's not a FnP


Semantics. You roll after enemy attacks same as FnP


Not really. If the new RP rules allow you to roll for every model killed by a set of attacks it works out quite different to FNP. Multi-damage weapons work very differently with FNP compared to the rumoured RP rules, especially against multi-wound models. It's likely to make smaller Necron models much more resilient while helping out he larger ones much less as FNP gets better the more wounds you have.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




 Matt Swain wrote:
Speaking on necron releases, pretyt much by now if you have a necron army you have a shooty army, so I'd like to see gw do a release box emphasizing close assault combat.

Maybe a box featuring the indomitus skorpekh destroyers, who cares of they're EZ build as long at they're at a good discount and maybe come in a 6 figure set? I zoggin' don't!

Or a box with the destroyers and a destroyer lord. Again, ez build is fine with me as long as it's at a discount.

Possibly a deluxe assault force with skorpekh and ophydian destroyers, a flayed one squad and a destroyer lord. All you need to giver your current shooty army full close combat capability.


It would seem that the Indomitus Necrons will be the core of a new Start Collecting set, based on how they're designed.

That'd be 10 Warriors, 3 Scarabs, 3 Skorpek Destroyers,a Plasmacyte, and an Overlord, for 18 models in a box. There *might* be a Plasmancer or Royal Warden in the mix as well.

That's not assured, but that's the likely outcome.
   
Made in us
Did Fulgrim Just Behead Ferrus?




Noctis Labyrinthus

 Sentineil wrote:


Disagreeing with the premise of an Ork tactics thread and discussing Marine tactics instead is off topic.


Complete strawman my man. A better example would be, say, someone making an Ork thread where their OP states that Da Killa Klaw is OP and needs nerfs, and then people disagreeing.

If the topic of the thread is for people who are excited by the releases to discuss them, then that's the topic. If you don't agree, and aren't happy about things that's fine, but why insist on posting in this one? You don't like the topic, don't get involved. There's no need to try and bring down the mood in here.

Start a thread about everything that's bad about the game where you can discuss with other people of a like mind. I'll happily stay out of it.

At the end of the day, why attack someone else's enjoyment of the game and releases?


No, OP says he is optimistic, making the topic about optimism for xenos because of the Necron release. He even specifically said that HE thinks it is grounds for optimism. No one is required to agree with this premise. If you don't want people to disagree with your optimism? Make a blog post, or a discord channel where you can regulate what is posted.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/09/19 02:33:23


 
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch






well... You are not allowed not to be optimistic on the WH40k FB page it seems

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772746.page#10378083 - My progress/failblog painting blog thingy

Eldar- 4436 pts


AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
 
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





 Argive wrote:
well... You are not allowed not to be optimistic on the WH40k FB page it seems


you mean flooding a corperate webpage with trash talk about how bad the product they're selling gets your post deleted? gee who'd have thunk!

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Brainy Zoanthrope




North Carolina

BrianDavion wrote:
 Argive wrote:
well... You are not allowed not to be optimistic on the WH40k FB page it seems


you mean flooding a corperate webpage with trash talk about how bad the product they're selling gets your post deleted? gee who'd have thunk!


So is NuGW^TM really completely different and all factions will get their turn and balance is coming, just wait and see! Or is NuGW the same as before and it's totally not surprising that their FB page is an arm of the Ministry of Propaganda? Because you guys don't get to have it both ways.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Gene St. Ealer wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 Argive wrote:
well... You are not allowed not to be optimistic on the WH40k FB page it seems


you mean flooding a corperate webpage with trash talk about how bad the product they're selling gets your post deleted? gee who'd have thunk!


So is NuGW^TM really completely different and all factions will get their turn and balance is coming, just wait and see! Or is NuGW the same as before and it's totally not surprising that their FB page is an arm of the Ministry of Propaganda? Because you guys don't get to have it both ways.


No company is going to tolerate massive negativity on their own promotional web pages, and a corporate FB page is 100% a promotional tool. That has nothing to do with whether GW has changed from its previous incarnation into a more communicative and engaged company.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Slipspace wrote:

No company is going to tolerate massive negativity on their own promotional web pages, and a corporate FB page is 100% a promotional tool. That has nothing to do with whether GW has changed from its previous incarnation into a more communicative and engaged company.


Yea there's no way they can staff to respond to all the posts on days where the community goes nuts - especially when they don't have any extra info to give.

   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba





Having played against Necrons in my last game...I really hope they get a lot more good stuff than just "res prots work."

That might get them functional, but man, there are some DEPRESSING unit statlines over in ol' codex necrons...including a bunch of the new units.

The new big spindly resurrection bug thingy is a complete and utter waste of space, the new skorpek destroyers are super-slow glass cannons, the new warrior gun is just terrible, and pretty much every weapon that was either shot or swung at me I expected to deal at least 30% more damage than it ended up dealing.

I thought my Eldar character statlines were depressing until I had some random ork stuff get into combat with necrons.

the basic necron HQ has THREE ATTACKS? At strength SEVEN? dude doinked off of a battlewagon without causing a single scratch before getting effortlessly mulched by the deffrolla, that's just sad. And then there was a fight between a weirdboy and a cryptek towards the end of the game where we were basically just goofing around and I learned that crypteks are a 100 point model that gets ONE count 'em ONE melee attack.

imperial guard sergeants don't have one melee attack!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/21 17:26:33


"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in us
Mysterious Techpriest




Maybe not, but I gotta ask if you have ideas for an alternative.

I like the design of the old one, it's a wierdly tricky model to build though, iirc. It's got some flaws. The green crystal had to go, imo.


1 million percent agree on the green crystal! Reminded me of the candy portion of those "ring pops" kids used to get. lol

If I had to pick one or the other, I would probably pick the new one, but no, I don't have alternatives. I'm honestly not even sure why I don't like them either. Typically I can say pretty quick what doesn't appeal to me, but for this model, I can't. Something about it just doesn't quite "work" for me. IDK why. I like the idea of it though.

no but I do think the mods should occasionally step in when certain people Hijack every thread with the same relentless "DUR MARINE OP! THEIR NEW CODEX IS GONNA BE EVEN MORE OP!" Crap. especially as golly gee, some nerfs are coming, it's almost like those who said "chill out, wait and see" may have ahd a point


Have you ever thought there was a problem with Marines? Ever? Because the people screaming about the people screaming ... are just as bad imo ...

Edit: I just googled ablutions and apparently it does not including dropping a duece. I should have looked it up early sorry for any confusion. - Baldsmug

Psiensis on the "good old days":
"Kids these days...
... I invented the 6th Ed meta back in 3rd ed.
Wait, what were we talking about again? Did I ever tell you about the time I gave you five bees for a quarter? That's what you'd say in those days, "give me five bees for a quarter", is what you'd say in those days. And you'd go down to the D&D shop, with an onion in your belt, 'cause that was the style of the time. So there I was in the D&D shop..." 
   
Made in gb
Instigating Incubi




The dark behind the eyes.

the_scotsman wrote:

the basic necron HQ has THREE ATTACKS? At strength SEVEN? dude doinked off of a battlewagon without causing a single scratch before getting effortlessly mulched by the deffrolla, that's just sad. And then there was a fight between a weirdboy and a cryptek towards the end of the game where we were basically just goofing around and I learned that crypteks are a 100 point model that gets ONE count 'em ONE melee attack.

imperial guard sergeants don't have one melee attack!


Yeah, Warscythes were lacklustre even before Marines started getting S8 weapons with straight 3 or even straight 4 damage.

Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.
 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"



 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba





 vipoid wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:

the basic necron HQ has THREE ATTACKS? At strength SEVEN? dude doinked off of a battlewagon without causing a single scratch before getting effortlessly mulched by the deffrolla, that's just sad. And then there was a fight between a weirdboy and a cryptek towards the end of the game where we were basically just goofing around and I learned that crypteks are a 100 point model that gets ONE count 'em ONE melee attack.

imperial guard sergeants don't have one melee attack!


Yeah, Warscythes were lacklustre even before Marines started getting S8 weapons with straight 3 or even straight 4 damage.


So like...from the index? Thunder hammers are in the index.

"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in gb
Instigating Incubi




The dark behind the eyes.

the_scotsman wrote:
 vipoid wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:

the basic necron HQ has THREE ATTACKS? At strength SEVEN? dude doinked off of a battlewagon without causing a single scratch before getting effortlessly mulched by the deffrolla, that's just sad. And then there was a fight between a weirdboy and a cryptek towards the end of the game where we were basically just goofing around and I learned that crypteks are a 100 point model that gets ONE count 'em ONE melee attack.

imperial guard sergeants don't have one melee attack!


Yeah, Warscythes were lacklustre even before Marines started getting S8 weapons with straight 3 or even straight 4 damage.


So like...from the index? Thunder hammers are in the index.


They were D3 even in the index, were they? I couldn't quite remember.

Regardless, my point was that Warscythes were mediocre at best in the Index and have only gotten worse since then.

Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.
 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"



 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




the_scotsman wrote:
Having played against Necrons in my last game...I really hope they get a lot more good stuff than just "res prots work."

That might get them functional, but man, there are some DEPRESSING unit statlines over in ol' codex necrons...including a bunch of the new units.

The new big spindly resurrection bug thingy is a complete and utter waste of space, the new skorpek destroyers are super-slow glass cannons, the new warrior gun is just terrible, and pretty much every weapon that was either shot or swung at me I expected to deal at least 30% more damage than it ended up dealing.

I thought my Eldar character statlines were depressing until I had some random ork stuff get into combat with necrons.

the basic necron HQ has THREE ATTACKS? At strength SEVEN? dude doinked off of a battlewagon without causing a single scratch before getting effortlessly mulched by the deffrolla, that's just sad. And then there was a fight between a weirdboy and a cryptek towards the end of the game where we were basically just goofing around and I learned that crypteks are a 100 point model that gets ONE count 'em ONE melee attack.

imperial guard sergeants don't have one melee attack!


As a Necron player, I can say you're completely correct. The best summation of Necron stats and weapons I can come up with is they're mostly just wrong. They have things like the Gauss Reaper with solid base stats...and stupidly short range while being RF. They have -4AP on their Warscythe...with S7 and D2 making it inferior to pretty much every comparable counterpart in other armies. The Tesla Destructor gets S7 and a lot of shots...with no way to buff the Tesla procs and no AP. With very few exceptions, Necron weapons and statlines are usually lacking in one crucial area or another.
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




At first the Warscythe ignored Armor and Invuln saves, making it quite worriesome for your opponent's heavy infantry/charscters

Then it had Armorbane's 2d6 armor penetration and was a usefull tool to carve open vehicles and inflict penetrating hits, and later strip away hull points which were relativly low count on most vehicles.

Now, vehicles have triple to quadruple their former hullpoints-turned-wounds while the Warscythe has largly retained its base stats.

It has degenerated in usefullness and scare factor with every subsequent edition until we come to the sad state of affairs we have now; where it bounces off Invuln saves and barely dents hubcaps

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/23 10:25:15


 
   
Made in gb
Frenzied Berserker Terminator




-Ňecrontyr- wrote:
At first the Warscythe ignored Armor and Invuln saves, making it quite worriesome for your opponent's heavy infantry/charscters

Then it had Armorbane's 2d6 armor penetration and was a usefull tool to carve open vehicles and inflict penetrating hits, and later strip away hull points which were relativly low count on most vehicles.

Now, vehicles have triple to quadruple their former hullpoints-turned-wounds while the Warscythe has largly retained its base stats.

It has degenerated in usefullness and scare factor with every subsequent edition until we come to the sad state of affairs we have now; where it bounces off Invuln saves and barely dents hubcaps


I'd vote for giving it back ap -5 and ignores invulns, make those 3 attacks mean something.
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




It feels like giving warscythes a "causes additional MW's on an unmodified 6" rule would give it some of that esoteric punch its been lacking, without neccesarily changing its list of targets


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dudeface wrote:


I'd vote for giving it back ap -5 and ignores invulns, make those 3 attacks mean something.


I would go for that. Not the 'killiest' weapon in the game for sheer damage, but unique and equally threatening to everything

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/23 10:35:09


 
   
Made in gb
Instigating Incubi




The dark behind the eyes.

I think quite a few Xeno weapons (including not just the Warscythe but also stuff like Dark/Bright Lances) suffer from GW overestimating the usefulness of AP.

These weapons seem to get AP-4 when comparable weapons have AP-3, but they trade that single pip of AP for a lot of other useful stuff (e.g. extra strength, better damage). However, going from AP-3 to AP-4 simply doesn't make a great deal of difference. Especially given how many armoured targets also have invulnerable saves.

Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.
 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"



 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





 vipoid wrote:
I think quite a few Xeno weapons (including not just the Warscythe but also stuff like Dark/Bright Lances) suffer from GW overestimating the usefulness of AP.

These weapons seem to get AP-4 when comparable weapons have AP-3, but they trade that single pip of AP for a lot of other useful stuff (e.g. extra strength, better damage). However, going from AP-3 to AP-4 simply doesn't make a great deal of difference. Especially given how many armoured targets also have invulnerable saves.


GW in my experiance overestimates the use of a lot of things, range is another good one that GW IMHO seems to over value

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba





Slipspace wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
Having played against Necrons in my last game...I really hope they get a lot more good stuff than just "res prots work."

That might get them functional, but man, there are some DEPRESSING unit statlines over in ol' codex necrons...including a bunch of the new units.

The new big spindly resurrection bug thingy is a complete and utter waste of space, the new skorpek destroyers are super-slow glass cannons, the new warrior gun is just terrible, and pretty much every weapon that was either shot or swung at me I expected to deal at least 30% more damage than it ended up dealing.

I thought my Eldar character statlines were depressing until I had some random ork stuff get into combat with necrons.

the basic necron HQ has THREE ATTACKS? At strength SEVEN? dude doinked off of a battlewagon without causing a single scratch before getting effortlessly mulched by the deffrolla, that's just sad. And then there was a fight between a weirdboy and a cryptek towards the end of the game where we were basically just goofing around and I learned that crypteks are a 100 point model that gets ONE count 'em ONE melee attack.

imperial guard sergeants don't have one melee attack!


They have -4AP on their Warscythe...with S7 and D2 making it inferior to pretty much every comparable counterpart in other armies.


Hey, at least it's better than the Archite Glaive!

-1 to hit 1 damage weapon 4 LYFE


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BrianDavion wrote:
 vipoid wrote:
I think quite a few Xeno weapons (including not just the Warscythe but also stuff like Dark/Bright Lances) suffer from GW overestimating the usefulness of AP.

These weapons seem to get AP-4 when comparable weapons have AP-3, but they trade that single pip of AP for a lot of other useful stuff (e.g. extra strength, better damage). However, going from AP-3 to AP-4 simply doesn't make a great deal of difference. Especially given how many armoured targets also have invulnerable saves.


GW in my experiance overestimates the use of a lot of things, range is another good one that GW IMHO seems to over value


They have not yet grasped that range has an inverse exponential curve of usefulness because the board is so small that once you hit 30" that's "Range = Always". going from 8 to 12? HUGE deal. Going from 12 to 18 - also a big deal. 18 to 24, suddenly you're in "can attack first turn" territory. 24 to 30, "can attack first turn without moving into no mans land".

but then GW is like "But what about 36" range weapons? And 48" range weapons? And 60" range weapons? TWO HUNDRED FORTY INCH RANGE WEAPONNNNNNN"

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/23 11:24:00


"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





30 inches range for a basic infantry RF weapon is also pretty big because it means you're gonna have a turn of rapid fire before your enemy does. it's a biiiig part of why Tau and Space Marines are considered to have the best basic troop gun in the game.

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba





BrianDavion wrote:
30 inches range for a basic infantry RF weapon is also pretty big because it means you're gonna have a turn of rapid fire before your enemy does. it's a biiiig part of why Tau and Space Marines are considered to have the best basic troop gun in the game.


Or, if you're a space marine, usually 2 turns in a vacuum.

You know, because Tau don't get rapid fire at 30". They have to get within 15", only 3" more than most other competitors.

Part of the reason why the Tactical Marine has been the least-favored son in a post Bolter Discipline world is that he is the only space marine troop choice who does not start the game fully within optimal range of his weapon. Everyone else, whether they infiltrate into place or have an Assault 24" gun or a Bolter Discipline or Heavy 30" gun, start fully able to target the enemy front line without moving.

Shrinking the depth of the deployment zone 2" or 6" just exacerbates the problem that other foot troops now have trying to compete with marines in the killing game. And since 8th has never had functional transports, only those factions who have their own long range troops gun (such as admech) or who have access to an open-topped transport (such as harlequins and drukhari) can have shooting troops that even try to participate in the killing game.

your two choices if you do have shooting-focused troops is to try and turn them into reserve bombs, so that they can appear within range, or relegate them entirely to the scoring game, don't bother giving them any upgrades that increase their cost/killing power, and use them solely as objective grabbing tokens.

You'll never see Pink Horrors, Guardsmen, Skitarii, Cultists, Guardians, Dire Avengers, Fire Warriors, Pathfinders, Kroot, Necron Warriors or Termagants having a use case in a post-Bolter Discipline meta unless they become so undercosted that they can afford to weather a full round of firepower before taking their shot and come out on top. It's the number one rule I hope gets gone in the new marine dex in exchange for the various core statline improvements that we're seeing in the assembly instructions. GW is taking the time to address the weakness of the core marine statline that existed prior to 2.0, but if they want to avoid having to powercreep everyone else into the stratosphere they need to dial back on some of the quick blanket fixes they piled on in 2.0 to roughly fix everything all at once.

Unfortunately, given what we've seen from necron statline improvements vs blanket rule improvements, they're taking a "marines 2.0" approach to improving Necrons, not a "marines 3.0" approach of actually doing a deep dive on the statlines and addressing core inefficiencies. They're getting some improvements mostly in the realms of melee damage and anti tank which is direly needed but the biggest boosts are going to come from Resurrection Protocols and Doctrines, which means just like with Marines 2.0 the best stuff in the necron codex will just get better and the worst stuff will say pointless.

"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in de
Regular Dakkanaut




the_scotsman wrote:
Unfortunately, given what we've seen from necron statline improvements vs blanket rule improvements, they're taking a "marines 2.0" approach to improving Necrons, not a "marines 3.0" approach of actually doing a deep dive on the statlines and addressing core inefficiencies. They're getting some improvements mostly in the realms of melee damage and anti tank which is direly needed but the biggest boosts are going to come from Resurrection Protocols and Doctrines, which means just like with Marines 2.0 the best stuff in the necron codex will just get better and the worst stuff will say pointless.


Since Marines 2.0 people can't stop bringing it up that you can take a random assortment of Marine units and have a viable list against anybody. So getting the "Marine 2.0 treatment" seems to me like that's what you want for your army.
   
 
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