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Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Full Kislev roster reveal.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in au
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Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

God for the Blood blood! Throne for the skull skulls!

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Exalted Beastlord




Really don't like Skarbrand as the LL for Khorne.
Its like doing an American Revolution game and going with Benedict Arnold as the face of the faction. I'd rather have him as the head of a WH2 style 'rogue army' that just randomly picks fights (maybe with a special mechanic for three-way battles).


Interesting roster, however. Some interesting surprises there, but still manages to feel a little thin. [DLC bait!]


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/17 15:47:02


Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

I have to agree RE: Skarbrand.

As Khorne's first LL, why give us someone who Khorne hates and is, for all intents and purposes, a renegade traitor?

As for the roster itself, I really like it. Some surprises and additions, and it doesn't feel anywhere near as lazy as the Kislev one.

By the way, would anyone like a horse? Or a bear? Or perhaps a horse or a bear? Maybe even a bear or a horse?

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Exalted Beastlord




I wonder if they're finally going to change up how mounts are done.

Wasting skill points on the lesser mounts always felt like a punishment when they were a prerequisite chain, but when they aren't, there's almost no point in investing in anything but the final mount.

----
The other problem with skarbrand is the lack of fly. The generic exalted bloodthirster is going to be much more flexible.

Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
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Dangerous Outrider




Montreal, QC Canada

Skarbrands usefulness as a Legendary Lord will depend entirely on his skill tree. If he can buff his army and be a beast in combat I'm sure he will be a fine choice.

Commodus Leitdorf Paints all of the Things!!
The Breaking of the Averholme: An AoS Adventure
"We have clearly reached the point where only rampant and unchecked stabbing can save us." -Black Mage 
   
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Lazy is the best way to describe that Kislev roster.

The roster GW made for Kislev is peak Wolf Pack Leader Wolfgang of the Space Wolves sheathed his Wolf Claws before petting his Dire Wolf Wolfington.


The only way we can ever solve anything is to look in the mirror and find no enemy 
   
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Voss wrote:
The other problem with skarbrand is the lack of fly. The generic exalted bloodthirster is going to be much more flexible.


In the table top game, Skarbrand (like all Bloodthirsters) had Movement 8 on foot, making him cavalry speed (faster than heavy cav, slower than most fast cav).

So if that translates over to Warhammer 3, Skarbrand should be fast enough. Not as good as Fly, but for a melee Lord that's not the worst thing in the world, not when we have blokes like Vlad just wandering around on foot beating everyone down.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/19 05:09:46


 
   
Made in au
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Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

 trexmeyer wrote:
Lazy is the best way to describe that Kislev roster.

The roster GW made for Kislev is peak Wolf Pack Leader Wolfgang of the Space Wolves sheathed his Wolf Claws before petting his Dire Wolf Wolfington.
I don't disagree that it's lazy, but I do disagree that it's Flanderised.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
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AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Voss wrote:
The other problem with skarbrand is the lack of fly. The generic exalted bloodthirster is going to be much more flexible.


In the table top game, Skarbrand (like all Bloodthirsters) had Movement 8 on foot, making him cavalry speed (faster than heavy cav, slower than most fast cav).

So if that translates over to Warhammer 3, Skarbrand should be fast enough. Not as good as Fly, but for a melee Lord that's not the worst thing in the world, not when we have blokes like Vlad just wandering around on foot beating everyone down.


Problem is, foot lords like Vlad... don't beat everybody down. Even against the point and charge AI, they have a hard time meaningfully contributing beyond mulching garbage. Especially lately, even AI characters can and will disengage from combat monsters, while they struggle without the mass to wade through the chaff.
I honestly expect Skarbrand to be a pain to micromanage away from ranged attacks that just hammer into his giant hitbox. Same with the GUO, to be honest (once they finally get around to remembering there are 4 other base factions).
Skarbrand won't have the mass issues, but I fully expect his wide attack animations to pull him out of position and redirect him from where you actually want him to go.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/23 02:28:23


Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in au
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Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

I think he's able to jump.

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"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in gb
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Foot lords get knocked about too much and dont have mass.

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AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "


 Eonfuzz wrote:


I would much rather everyone have a half ass than no ass.


"A warrior does not seek fame and honour. They come to him as he humbly follows his path"  
   
Made in au
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Voss wrote:
AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Voss wrote:
The other problem with skarbrand is the lack of fly. The generic exalted bloodthirster is going to be much more flexible.


In the table top game, Skarbrand (like all Bloodthirsters) had Movement 8 on foot, making him cavalry speed (faster than heavy cav, slower than most fast cav).

So if that translates over to Warhammer 3, Skarbrand should be fast enough. Not as good as Fly, but for a melee Lord that's not the worst thing in the world, not when we have blokes like Vlad just wandering around on foot beating everyone down.


Problem is, foot lords like Vlad... don't beat everybody down. Even against the point and charge AI, they have a hard time meaningfully contributing beyond mulching garbage. Especially lately, even AI characters can and will disengage from combat monsters, while they struggle without the mass to wade through the chaff.
I honestly expect Skarbrand to be a pain to micromanage away from ranged attacks that just hammer into his giant hitbox. Same with the GUO, to be honest (once they finally get around to remembering there are 4 other base factions).
Skarbrand won't have the mass issues, but I fully expect his wide attack animations to pull him out of position and redirect him from where you actually want him to go.


I don't play multi, but in single player the AI is dumb enough that I can put Vlad where he needs to be. Given he's a Vampire though, all he really needs to do is blob enemies up on himself then cast some AoE on them, and if an enemy character is dumb enough to try and take him on he'll be able to manage.

But yeah, not really applicable to Skarbrand. It'll be interesting to see how fast he is, but if he's as fast as regular cav and has a bit of mass he won't be hard to manoeuvre on a macro scale, but maybe he'll have dumb animations like the Dread Saurian. You'd think being a Bloodthirster he'd have animations that are better suited to dualling though, on the table top he had WS 10 after all.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Argive wrote:
Foot lords get knocked about too much and dont have mass.
Swings and roundabouts, foot lords have the benefit of being smaller so they get hit less when surrounded and tend to take less missile damage, but then they're slower and get knocked down.

I think watching too much Legend of Total War on YT I've come to appreciate foot lords more where previously I'd avoid anything on foot.

But yeah, Skarbrand should be plenty fast even on foot if CA follow his table top stats.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/23 10:49:26


 
   
Made in us
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Montreal, QC Canada

Foot lords are generally better to have unless they have access to a particularly good mount. Problem with mounts is it increases the unit size rating which can make them easier to hit and surround.

Now in Skarbrands case hes going to be Large so he wont get the normal benefit a smaller foot lord will get. IN addition we just straight don't know how good a combatant Skarbrand will be so to say he will be vulnerable isn't based on any first hand knowledge of his stats.

Commodus Leitdorf Paints all of the Things!!
The Breaking of the Averholme: An AoS Adventure
"We have clearly reached the point where only rampant and unchecked stabbing can save us." -Black Mage 
   
Made in au
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Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

 Argive wrote:
Foot lords get knocked about too much and dont have mass.
You... you think Skarbrand won't have much mass...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/23 15:05:28


Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
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 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Argive wrote:
Foot lords get knocked about too much and dont have mass.
You... you think Skarbrand won't have much mass...



Skarbrand is going to be single entity monster though...

The skull taker maybe will be a foot lord?

The moment Imrik gets on a dragon or a chariot he's no longer a foot lord.
To me a foot lord is humanoid lords that don't have mounts and are just on foot. Eg. Vlad

There is some benefit though. You don't take damage when you are prone as foot lord. So even if an animation ragdolls you half way across the map if the hit failed you will take no damage and will no take damage while prone. BUT you are still counting as being in combat for the purposes of SOK

But overall foot lords just suck. On my last VC playthrough Vlad just couldn't take out/hold like 2 units of war dancers by himself. Was lame.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772746.page#10378083 - My progress/failblog painting blog thingy

Eldar- 4436 pts


AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "


 Eonfuzz wrote:


I would much rather everyone have a half ass than no ass.


"A warrior does not seek fame and honour. They come to him as he humbly follows his path"  
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

I think Skulltaker will get mount options.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Exalted Beastlord




I don't know. They've been pretty stubborn about keeping characters off mounts if there wasn't a tabletop version. I think there are a few exceptions, but for the most part foot people stay that way.

That's if Skulltaker gets pulled in as a DLC LL, of course.

Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in au
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Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

I think he will, but I think we'll get Valkia first. She's honestly more interesting.

Then again, CA are lazy, so reskinning the existing Herald would be their style.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
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 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I think Skulltaker will get mount options.


So long as it's not a giant skull...

   
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 Argive wrote:
But overall foot lords just suck. On my last VC playthrough Vlad just couldn't take out/hold like 2 units of war dancers by himself. Was lame.


2 units of Wardancers are surprisingly hard for most melee Lords to take out, and if they're supported by a ranged unit they can go into their defensive dance stance thingo to make their melee defence high and not get hit as frequently while the ranged unit does damage.

But yeah, I disagree, foot lords don't suck. You just have to use them differently, mounted lords have more options and often do better AoE attacks, foot lords generally are harder to kill and against the AI do a good job blobbing up the enemy, and no Lord can just charge into 2 units of Wardancers and expect to be fine. Wardancers on a whole suck, but that's one of the few things they can kinda do well.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/24 08:11:28


 
   
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Northumberland

I tend to keep all my lords on foot until they get a bestial mount. Can tie up half an army with a high level lord.

One and a half feet in the hobby


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Foot is better than horse for the most part. the horse stagger and hit hit box are terrible. Also counts as large for the purposes of bonuses..


Automatically Appended Next Post:
AllSeeingSkink wrote:
 Argive wrote:
But overall foot lords just suck. On my last VC playthrough Vlad just couldn't take out/hold like 2 units of war dancers by himself. Was lame.


2 units of Wardancers are surprisingly hard for most melee Lords to take out, and if they're supported by a ranged unit they can go into their defensive dance stance thingo to make their melee defence high and not get hit as frequently while the ranged unit does damage.

But yeah, I disagree, foot lords don't suck. You just have to use them differently, mounted lords have more options and often do better AoE attacks, foot lords generally are harder to kill and against the AI do a good job blobbing up the enemy, and no Lord can just charge into 2 units of Wardancers and expect to be fine. Wardancers on a whole suck, but that's one of the few things they can kinda do well.


I think most lv 40 lords will chew up 2 war dancer units...

Any lord with a monster mount is just better. Better mobility and AOE

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/24 22:24:14


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772746.page#10378083 - My progress/failblog painting blog thingy

Eldar- 4436 pts


AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "


 Eonfuzz wrote:


I would much rather everyone have a half ass than no ass.


"A warrior does not seek fame and honour. They come to him as he humbly follows his path"  
   
Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





 Argive wrote:
Foot is better than horse for the most part. the horse stagger and hit hit box are terrible. Also counts as large for the purposes of bonuses..


Automatically Appended Next Post:
AllSeeingSkink wrote:
 Argive wrote:
But overall foot lords just suck. On my last VC playthrough Vlad just couldn't take out/hold like 2 units of war dancers by himself. Was lame.


2 units of Wardancers are surprisingly hard for most melee Lords to take out, and if they're supported by a ranged unit they can go into their defensive dance stance thingo to make their melee defence high and not get hit as frequently while the ranged unit does damage.

But yeah, I disagree, foot lords don't suck. You just have to use them differently, mounted lords have more options and often do better AoE attacks, foot lords generally are harder to kill and against the AI do a good job blobbing up the enemy, and no Lord can just charge into 2 units of Wardancers and expect to be fine. Wardancers on a whole suck, but that's one of the few things they can kinda do well.


I think most lv 40 lords will chew up 2 war dancer units...

Any lord with a monster mount is just better. Better mobility and AOE


Dunno how much (if at all) the stats change in campaign, but in custom battle I tried a few Lords vs 2 Wardancer units which were only rank 1 and most of the Lords lost, Vlad did not too bad but still lost. Kholek lost, Kroq Gar on his Carnosaur lost. Mannfred on a Dragon won largely because the AI was smart enough to Raise Dead, pull him out of combat and hit with AoE breath/spells rather than just sitting there surrounded by Wardancers.

Believe me, I was surprised, when I play as WE I never take Wardancers because they die way too fast, but apparently melee Lord killing is something they do well.

Granted I'm not trying to argue foot lords are better than lords on a fast monster, of course the latter gives you more options, but the way the AI plays in campaign the advantages of a good foot lord can be exploited. Their advantages clearly don't extend to "charge into 2 units of Wardancers".

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/06/27 07:02:23


 
   
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UK

In camapign Lords are quite a bit weaker near the beginning - often lacking key magical items/ spells etc - Vlad has to get his sword and ring back and if he has not got this when he gets into a fight he can suffer

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