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they should bring back the Land Speeder option for IG, it would serve as a scout vehicle, command or support variant.

I made a conversion for my Elysians yrs ago:

Here's an idea: Primaris Guardsmen or 'guardsman Primaris' to avoid confusion.

Funny, but it may come true. Take the Catachans, update the scupts, make them a separate entry, with their bonus strength, new kit, on new 9/8 inch bases (28.5mm), give them an upgraded STR 4 shotgun instead of the puny laser gun. And voilà ! Here are the primaris guardsmen !

Don't forget to make the Primarichans about the same size as Primaris Marines so that people can complain to GW about how Marines are the same size as Guardsmen, and Marines need to be upscaled so they look right on the tabletop...

Absolutely zero chance of this happening... Someone would turn it into a PR s***storm from outside the hobby once they caught wind of it, most likely from someone unhappy within the hobby, and I think it would just be a bit un-tasteful personally.

So in the universe where innocent civilians get slaughtered, butchered, and executed.... rape, pillaging, theft, entire planets getting gassed, and a sci fi world filled with just murder and mayhem.... the thing that’s un-tasteful to you is suicide bombers? I understand why you think that but there are other things to pick at in the universe. War is supposed to be this hell you don’t understand. It’s supposed to be strife with anger, rage, passion, and a whole slew of negative emotions. War is brutal.... the universe gets it right sometimes by showing a semi-correct depiction on the ugliness of war I feel..... and It’s a game, there’s that too.

Honestly, suicide bombing is considered very dis-honorable (even in war) in the American/Western Psyche, and thus Games-workshop would be right to avoid it as much as possible. Tho I was toying around with the idea of using ork buggies in previous editions to basically die and provide cover for the foot-slogging hordes, as buggies could provide alot of cover for a very low cost.

usmcmidn wrote:
War is supposed to be this hell you don’t understand. It’s supposed to be strife with anger, rage, passion, and a whole slew of negative emotions.

That just isn't 40K.

40K is cartoon violence. Its core theme is that war is fun. It has to be, if it wants to sell you war as an entertainment product. It doesn't meaningfully engage with the realities of war and it isn't meant to; you don't watch a GI Joe cartoon expecting to explore the finer points of PTSD or civilian collateral.

Suicide bombers are a little too real for a lot of people and cross that line from escapist fantasy violence to something uncomfortable to play out. GW isn't going to release minis depicting civilians being raped or being gassed in extermination camps either. Being ostensibly part of the setting- in the background, hinted at, not really explored- does not make it suitable material for the tabletop.

I say BANZAI!!!

 catbarf wrote:

usmcmidn wrote:
War is supposed to be this hell you don’t understand. It’s supposed to be strife with anger, rage, passion, and a whole slew of negative emotions.

That just isn't 40K.

40K is cartoon violence. Its core theme is that war is fun. It has to be, if it wants to sell you war as an entertainment product. It doesn't meaningfully engage with the realities of war and it isn't meant to; you don't watch a GI Joe cartoon expecting to explore the finer points of PTSD or civilian collateral.

Suicide bombers are a little too real for a lot of people and cross that line from escapist fantasy violence to something uncomfortable to play out. GW isn't going to release minis depicting civilians being raped or being gassed in extermination camps either. Being ostensibly part of the setting- in the background, hinted at, not really explored- does not make it suitable material for the tabletop.

Look I’m not trying to get into a philosophical debate. And please don’t assume I’m angry, hateful, or trying to be a jerk in my responses. I’m just trying to convey my point. If I come off as disrespectful or a jerk please know that is not what I feel.

I respectfully disagree. Again I understand what you are saying about cartoon violence. However I would disagree on the basis of the novels. Most of 40K novels are anything but cartoon funny violence. The universe is based on grim dark. I get the tabletop game may be that way but for example the end of 13 Hours (I believe) the guardsman is literally laying in a puddle of his own blood after a failed operation trying to hang on for that 13 hour mark before inevitably dying alone and in the mud. Hell I remember reading a novel where a naval bondsman “assaulted” a female bondsman.

And GW has released minis that have been less politically correct, for example the Asdrubael Vect model literally has two women slaves on it.... Hell, all of Dark Eldar society is based off of torture and slaves. I think that is far more disturbing then suicide bombers. I think we can all agree how horrible slavery is... at least to western standards as someone pointed out.

Again it’s based off of violence. And the cool thing about 40K is it can be whatever you want it to be. I choose to be a good guy who deploys my Astartes to protect civilians and kill bad guys trying to kill those civilians. 40K is a universe where literally anything and everything can happen. I don’t have a problem with the notion of suicide bombers (in fiction). Again I am in no way shape or form condoning suicide bombing, that’s horrible. We just choose to disregard some of the more horrible things the universe has to offer and that is ok.

Suicide Bombers work better for Genestealer Cults (They have literally ACME dinamite) than for imperial guard.

Seeing as how most factions are getting 1-3 new sculpts per dex (ignoring anything that wears power armor for the moment) I don't see IG getting much of a boost in model count. They already boast the single largest model count if you throw in FW, of any faction in the game.

They will likely get some new sub faction bonuses "Cadians never run" removes morale phase for Cadian detachments or some sillyness. Maybe a new vehicle, but their Scions line is only a few years old, they don't really NEED much. Maybe a way to faction in detachments from other Imperial units with no cp Cost? Add in a detachement of Sisters, no CP cost for the extra detachment.

I don't see Cadians getting out of print. Not even getting changed. Catachans, on the other hand, are horrible, very old models, at least for the basic squad box (beginning of 3rd edition). They will probably update them, while keeping the general look. The catachan command squad box, which dates back from 5th edition, may be kept as is. I mean these models do look much better, right ? Right ??

As for a new plastic infantry range, my feeling is this: they will stop making the very last metal infantry squad box, the Armageddon Steel Legion. With an update to the sculpts, this may become the greatcoat infantry range in plastic, that many of us call for, since ages. Steel Legion has a well established, detailed and important place in the W40k Imperial Guard lore. So I'm confident they will be an important part of the 9th edition AM codex. This will need three boxes : basic squad, command squad, heavy weapon squad.

Unfortunately, this does not leaves many room for further new kits. I definitely think all tanks will remain the same. With maybe an exception for the basilisk, which is an outdated kit from 2nd edition, half updated when 5th ed' codex dropped. It still contains some small obsolete sprues that should be changed. They may take the opportunity to make a double kit out of it, and reintroduce the Griffon tank. It would be very nice.

I hope that GW will not stop there, and I would applause the return of old Forgeworld's Tauros Venator / Tauros assault vehicle as a plastic kit. In terms of gameplay, AM is in dire need of a really rapid unit, a proper fast attack selection.

Do this seems plausible to you ?

Sentinels can already set up anywhere (On your side) at start and do a 14" scout move. With Heavy Flamers, or even LCs, that is a ugly first move to unleash on an unprepared unit, especially for the cost... Rough Riders also do a mean thing on the charge, but I forget their stats.

Rough riders are currently on "Legends" status, so do not count.

Scout sentinels can do not 14, but 9 plus 9 inches move during the first turn. This can be combined to a 12 inches flame range and a desperate 6 inches charge range into an unprepared opponent. All of this is quite nice, but this unique, extra move cannot replace the tactical flexibility of a truely fast movement characteristic of 15 inches (Tauros).

 catbarf wrote:

usmcmidn wrote:
War is supposed to be this hell you don’t understand. It’s supposed to be strife with anger, rage, passion, and a whole slew of negative emotions.

That just isn't 40K.

40K is cartoon violence. Its core theme is that war is fun.

Yeeeeaaahhh. . . . sorta. . . .

Two of the most "40K" memes I can think of are Chainswords and "Burn Heretic". So like, sawing people in half and setting them on fire in a religious fervor. . .

And some of the novels do take themselves pretty seriously.

"War is fun!" is easily "Atrocity is fun!".


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Galas wrote:
Suicide Bombers work better for Genestealer Cults (They have literally ACME dinamite) than for imperial guard.

Agreed. Although IG used to have penal legion squads with explosive collars, and Demolition Charges which were hilariously suicidal at times.

Or we shall receive none.

I am increasingly feeling with better access to plastics for 3rd party companies, GW would have to be on it's A game giving you not just quality but a good cost. A 10 man box at $35ish bucks with options pay walled behind other kits is now in direct competition against one at the same cost with relatively more options.

Most 3rd parties I've seen are still working in resin, though I haven't looked specifically for guard 3rd party.

Wargames Exclusive, Raging Heroes and W. Artel? Some beautiful sculpts to be sure, but all in resin. Like I said though, these three aren't known for their guard knock-offs.

PenitentJake wrote:
Most 3rd parties I've seen are still working in resin, though I haven't looked specifically for guard 3rd party.

Wargames Exclusive, Raging Heroes and W. Artel? Some beautiful sculpts to be sure, but all in resin. Like I said though, these three aren't known for their guard knock-offs.

https://www.anvilindustry.co.uk/

These guys have clean, modular models that are resonably priced and are excellent quality

and a personal favorite who ONLY does guard,

https://victoriaminiatures.com/

her stuff is some of the best out there for quality AND they have tons of female sculpts

PenitentJake wrote:
Most 3rd parties I've seen are still working in resin, though I haven't looked specifically for guard 3rd party.

Wargames Exclusive, Raging Heroes and W. Artel? Some beautiful sculpts to be sure, but all in resin. Like I said though, these three aren't known for their guard knock-offs.

You've missed out on Wargames Atlantic, which has several kits that can basically be Imperial Guard as is, or be made to look like specific Imperial Guard with just the smallest of touches. Their Grognard's set specifically can with very little work be made to something similar/close enough to Valhallan, Vostroyan, and Death Korps (for the last you need to get their WW1 German set for the gas mask heads), and they are generally 24 models for 35 dollars with deals for multibuys to make each box cheaper.

Quality wise they are pretty dang good too, especially compared to the current Guard models (which are the same price for 10). A new GW infantry box might be higher quality, but it will need some big quality of life bits to make it worth buying over the other options out there. Like actually having enough special weapons in the box, being an all in one Heavy Weapon Team, Command, and Infantry box, having lots of head options, or just being cheap. If GW makes a new Guard Infantry box that is 10 for 60$ and doesn't package in at the very minimum all of the special weapons, it would be hard to really justify the purchase. Me personally, the most I'd see myself willing to spend on official Guard models would probably be 40 for 10, and I'd actually want more than grenade launchers and flamers in the box, and some customization options, etc.

Also Artel not known for their Guard knockoffs? They have beautiful models that meld seamlessly into Guard, and can even have them lead by a Hero of the Imperium and his aide if you so desire.

 kurhanik wrote:

PenitentJake wrote:
Most 3rd parties I've seen are still working in resin, though I haven't looked specifically for guard 3rd party.

Wargames Exclusive, Raging Heroes and W. Artel? Some beautiful sculpts to be sure, but all in resin. Like I said though, these three aren't known for their guard knock-offs.

You've missed out on Wargames Atlantic, which has several kits that can basically be Imperial Guard as is, or be made to look like specific Imperial Guard with just the smallest of touches. Their Grognard's set specifically can with very little work be made to something similar/close enough to Valhallan, Vostroyan, and Death Korps (for the last you need to get their WW1 German set for the gas mask heads), and they are generally 24 models for 35 dollars with deals for multibuys to make each box cheaper.

Quality wise they are pretty dang good too, especially compared to the current Guard models (which are the same price for 10). A new GW infantry box might be higher quality, but it will need some big quality of life bits to make it worth buying over the other options out there. Like actually having enough special weapons in the box, being an all in one Heavy Weapon Team, Command, and Infantry box, having lots of head options, or just being cheap. If GW makes a new Guard Infantry box that is 10 for 60$ and doesn't package in at the very minimum all of the special weapons, it would be hard to really justify the purchase. Me personally, the most I'd see myself willing to spend on official Guard models would probably be 40 for 10, and I'd actually want more than grenade launchers and flamers in the box, and some customization options, etc.

Also Artel not known for their Guard knockoffs? They have beautiful models that meld seamlessly into Guard, and can even have them lead by a Hero of the Imperium and his aide if you so desire.

Don't forget, for the same price as a Heavy Weapons box, you can get the Grognard Heavy Weapons box that also comes with all the bits for a Command. The box itself featuring enough to make 6 Heavy Weapons Teams or a combination to make your command. ALL IN PLASTIC!!!.

 kurhanik wrote:
...Also Artel not known for their Guard knockoffs?..

Not to my mind - when I think "Guard knockoffs", I think Victoria Miniatures, Anvil Industries, Mad Robot Miniatures (surprised they didn't get mentioned yet), and Wargames Atlantic. When I think Artel W, I think mildly overdesigned cheesecake pinups (not that there's anything specifically wrong with that, of course - Artel has some serious skill when it comes to design, and it shows, just not in a way that makes me want to buy what's on sale).

 catbarf wrote:
Suicide bombers are a little too real for a lot of people and cross that line from escapist fantasy violence to something uncomfortable to play out. GW isn't going to release minis depicting civilians being raped or being gassed in extermination camps either. Being ostensibly part of the setting- in the background, hinted at, not really explored- does not make it suitable material for the tabletop.

For anyone saying suicide bombers is to real and hits to close to home, I'll encourage those people to check out the Demolition Truck from Red Alert 2.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMlev-mPFW8

Suicide units can work in a setting like 40K, its all about how the presentation is done. Westwood succeeded because they put a humorous spin on it.
Now that I think about it, the command and conquer series had a whole gaggle of self destructive units to play around with. Such fun memories.

 waefre_1 wrote:

 kurhanik wrote:
...Also Artel not known for their Guard knockoffs?..

Not to my mind - when I think "Guard knockoffs", I think Victoria Miniatures, Anvil Industries, Mad Robot Miniatures (surprised they didn't get mentioned yet), and Wargames Atlantic. When I think Artel W, I think mildly overdesigned cheesecake pinups (not that there's anything specifically wrong with that, of course - Artel has some serious skill when it comes to design, and it shows, just not in a way that makes me want to buy what's on sale).

At this point I find it all kind of funny. The Guard knock offs are more so GW products.

Well times do change regarding what is acceptable or not, and maybe that is now a taboo capability. Certainly there will be a line of clout chasers ready to tell us if that is the case.

I don't see a parachute on this guy though!

https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Grot_Bomm

HeadMaster wrote:
For anyone saying suicide bombers is to real and hits to close to home, I'll encourage those people to check out the Demolition Truck from Red Alert 2.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMlev-mPFW8

Suicide units can work in a setting like 40K, its all about how the presentation is done. Westwood succeeded because they put a humorous spin on it.

Now that I think about it, the command and conquer series had a whole gaggle of self destructive units to play around with. Such fun memories.

It's definitely dangerous ground and a line I doubt GW is willing to cross. Red Alert 2 came out before 911. Command & Conquer Generals which also had an entire terrorist faction, and while this game came out after 911 was published by EA Games. A company notorious for not caring for their consumer base or even their own developers. Command & Conquer Generals was also banned in China and Germany.

Another thing you have to consider is the fact we already have indirect forms of suicide units. Those vehicles and battlesuits that you can use a stratagem on to intentionally explode? Their crews just intentionally blew themselves up for the greater good (general term, not the Tau one). Any unit wielding a plasma weapon? Those soldiers would know the dangers of overcharging, and are willing putting their lives at risk in the hopes to do more damage to the enemy.

Despite this, I don't see GW giving humans explosive vests and blowing themselves up. That's the line in the sand and they're not willing to cross it. Why would they and risk to have their IP potentially banned or age restricted?

I'd like the 'Guard to maybe get access to all the old marine vehicles if GW is going to be pushing grav tanks for their special little boys. Predators aren't bad tanks, and maybe the Guard could give Landraiders the love that Space Marines never did.

Beyond that, old school Penitent Engines used to be made out of the Sentinel chassis. I could easily see them being uparmored and then suddenly the guard has access to a fast moving suit of over-sized power armor that can perform reasonably well in melee and has the fire power of several heavy weapon squads. If the Sisters can pilot their power armor and new warsuits, I don't see why the IG couldn't do the same with a militarized version of the Penitent Engine.

 Galas wrote:
Suicide Bombers work better for Genestealer Cults (They have literally ACME dinamite) than for imperial guard.

Taken to its logical extreme, suicide bombers would work best for Tyranids.

Now I'm imagining a tervigon crawling up the table, spewing out squads of baneling equivalents that throw themselves into explodey, acidy death.

40k has a lot of "noble sacrifice" type stuff, such as the vehicles automatically exploding.
I could actually see Sisters getting suicide units before Imperial Guard.
The distinction seems silly, and in purely objective terms it probably is. But I think it is tangible enough.

Don't Tyranids already have suicide bombers? Spore Mines.

I'm not sure how much I want "new" units vs fixed units.
I've never played with autocannon chimeras but I kind of like the idea. I'd like hydras to not be -1 against ground. I'd like a master of ordnance more relevant to the current tables. The latter two are codex fodder perhaps.

Rather than a strategm I like the idea of a command vehicle, maybe low damage high toughness.


It would be interesting to have something like sappers/engineers, (And perhaps with a strategem you can get the suicide blast effect), which might remove cover or line of sight effects on a peice of terrain they are next to for a shooting phase. Honestly with all the other outrageous horror and corruption aspects of the lore and even the rather greusome and salacious offerings in models, I think it's out of balance to carry a lot of angst over men sacrificing themselves to defeat an enemy being "too far" over any realistic sociologicial/sanity line (though civic sanity isn't always a given, satanic panic over D&D for instance)

Except maybe a command chimera variant none of these really warrant expansion of the model line though. Honestly there's already such a great diversity already I think a lot of niches are well filled, but just need to be optimized from edition to edition.

I'd love a Chimera Command Vehicle. Essentially like a Company Commander, but for tanks. Two orders, and a much larger order range to represent vox.
This could be done without a new kit, although updating the Chimera kit with loads of aerials and stuff wouldn't hurt it's not necessary.

I like the idea of Veterans being effectively a multi-purpose unit.
The ability to buy different upgrades to reflect different roles, like they used to be able to do.
You can buy the unit carapace armour, camo cloaks, demolition charges, etc.

The problem with suicide bombers isn't that they're too horrible for 40k, it's that they hit too close to home.

The easiest way to get around the wargaming suicide bomber morality issue is to use drones. Like Necrons already do with the exploding Scarab strategem. Of course drones aren't really Guard's thing