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Made in kg
Fresh-Faced New User





As a backer, I really couldn’t care about all this back and forth. Sure, it was interesting to know what the situation is, considering not that long ago the situation was: company folded, money was gone.

But the length and details in the two recent updates feel as if Justin is using the KS as a soapbox. I don’t care about the minutia, and frankly, I don’t care that much about the story. Justin keeps repeating is all TT/TTC’s fault if the project is not moving forward, but I gave my money to him, not to TT/TTC. What does he expect? That we’re all gonna go up in arms and go knocking on TT/TTC’s door?

The only good thing coming out of this is Justin confirming in the comments that the money is still available to finish the project. I don’t know if I can believe him, but at least he felt confident enough to write it down.

I have always accepted that there is a degree of risk involved with Kickstarter, but I must say I am not happy with the lack of recourses when things go wrong. Unlike real,investors, we can’t demand access to anything, so instead we get updates full of rants and feuds.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/07/10 07:43:57


 
   
Made in us
Stealthy Space Wolves Scout






Agreed, Alfy. I don't care about, or for, the back and forth squabble. The internet is not the place to resolve legal disputes. In fact, this he-said, he-said self defense fest is doing more, in my mind, to damage both of the reputations than to shore them up.

Really, Louis has the most to lose as far as reputation goes because he still has a viable business and wants to continue. Justin is on his way out and will exit the scene.



"You never see toilets in the 41st Millennium - that's why everyone looks so angry all the time." - Fezman 1/28/13
 
   
Made in us
Incorporating Wet-Blending






Any settlement between SW and TT? TT has a new KS, and the prices are *good*.

No goblin throwing bees, though. ):

Crimson Scales and Wildspire Miniatures thread on Reaper! : https://forum.reapermini.com/index.php?/topic/103935-wildspire-miniatures-thread/ 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Longtime Dakkanaut





Nope. I haven't actively gone looking but nothing from Justin since last summer on Facebook. He's currently working for the State of California via a quick LinkedIn search and started around the same time he went silent.

I assume dealing with an international lawsuit is time consuming and expensive so it's either going really slowly on it or he decided to move on.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2023/03/03 05:58:53


 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





Some news on Secret Weapon, Justin has sold most of the SW IP to another company Elrik's Hobbies, but hasnt sold the HD bases IP to them.

https://www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0uszjbNjdeVEF8bR9fk6bBmGuf3fkz21JprMW3eCbW6p9ZV6X3FcKdnCGQEFhmNzxl&id=100036492324757&mibextid=qC1gEa

A few comments from Justin are spread in the comments of that post but here is the meat of them..

"Elrik's has sole and exclusive rights to the SWM products. Troll Trader never had an agreement with SWM and is currently refusing to destroy the molds and masters in their possession. Elrik's has had access to communications showing the effort that was made to get Troll Trader / TT Combat to even say when they think their license ended. Instead, they continue to sell counterfeit product."

"with the closure of Every Little War it is impossible to fulfill the campaign. I will be posting an update."
   
Made in us
Most Glorious Grey Seer





Everett, WA

I just got the KS project update email.

Secret Weapon Miniatures, Inc. has officially ceased all operations. Once the appropriate paperwork has been processed it will cease to exist as a legal entity.

With the closure of Every Little War in May, 2023, it is impossible for this campaign to fulfill.

Secret Weapon cannot process refunds on this campaign.

A good faith effort was made to fulfill the campaign, but with no employees since August, 2021, Secret Weapon needed to find a partner willing to handle fulfillment and, hopefully, carry the product line forward post-fulfillment. Unfortunately, a partner could not be found that was willing to move forward while Secret Weapon was engaged in an ongoing and public legal dispute regarding intellectual property and counterfeiting. That legal dispute is still ongoing.

Both Secret Weapon and Every Little War deeply regret that we were unable to deliver on this project, which you helped to realize, and bring this innovative new product line to market.

Thank you.

 
   
Made in gb
Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade





well that's that then, out $100 and they couldn't even provide us the files to make the bases ourselves.

Another example of why kickstarters are a gamble, some complete and are fantastic, others...don't


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Charax absolutely nailed it.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Charax wrote:
well that's that then, out $100 and they couldn't even provide us the files to make the bases ourselves.

Another example of why kickstarters are a gamble, some complete and are fantastic, others...don't



Yep, this is one of two kickstarters that really changed how I use it. I really research anything I kickstart anymore, and as a result I have kickstarted. . . nothing in over a year.
   
Made in us
Serious Squig Herder






Quasistellar wrote:
Charax wrote:
well that's that then, out $100 and they couldn't even provide us the files to make the bases ourselves.

Another example of why kickstarters are a gamble, some complete and are fantastic, others...don't



Yep, this is one of two kickstarters that really changed how I use it. I really research anything I kickstart anymore, and as a result I have kickstarted. . . nothing in over a year.


Kickstarter has gotten really crappy the last few years. I won't back anything anymore if it's not from either an established company (with a reputation to lose) or a company with a proven history of delivering on campaigns. That being said that policy wouldn't have prevented me from backing this one. Sometimes you just can't see them coming.
   
Made in gb
Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade





Schmapdi wrote:

Kickstarter has gotten really crappy the last few years. I won't back anything anymore if it's not from either an established company (with a reputation to lose) or a company with a proven history of delivering on campaigns. That being said that policy wouldn't have prevented me from backing this one. Sometimes you just can't see them coming.


To be fair I'm still waiting on a £200+ pledge from a Troll Forged Miniatures kickstarter from 2012. KS has always been this way

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Charax absolutely nailed it.
 
   
Made in us
Most Glorious Grey Seer





Everett, WA

For me, Kickstarter has been a mixed bag. Most were successful but there were some failures. This was the most expensive failure for me so far.


 
   
Made in us
Perfect Shot Dark Angels Predator Pilot





New York

Charax wrote:
Schmapdi wrote:

Kickstarter has gotten really crappy the last few years. I won't back anything anymore if it's not from either an established company (with a reputation to lose) or a company with a proven history of delivering on campaigns. That being said that policy wouldn't have prevented me from backing this one. Sometimes you just can't see them coming.


To be fair I'm still waiting on a £200+ pledge from a Troll Forged Miniatures kickstarter from 2012. KS has always been this way

Dark Age Outpost (Viking palisades and buildings) from 2015 for me!
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter





SoCal

Charax wrote:
Schmapdi wrote:

Kickstarter has gotten really crappy the last few years. I won't back anything anymore if it's not from either an established company (with a reputation to lose) or a company with a proven history of delivering on campaigns. That being said that policy wouldn't have prevented me from backing this one. Sometimes you just can't see them coming.


To be fair I'm still waiting on a £200+ pledge from a Troll Forged Miniatures kickstarter from 2012. KS has always been this way


Were you waiting on a specific sculpt? Fulfillment was taken over by Tom Anders of Impact! Minis, and he has been really good about getting people what they are owed. You might have to make your pledge history public for him to view it and confirm your pledge, if he doesn’t have the records from Trollforge.

The Assimilation Host miniatures I got from him rather than from Trollforge were much easier to assemble, without that invincible mold release.

   
Made in us
[DCM]
Longtime Dakkanaut





 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Charax wrote:
Schmapdi wrote:

Kickstarter has gotten really crappy the last few years. I won't back anything anymore if it's not from either an established company (with a reputation to lose) or a company with a proven history of delivering on campaigns. That being said that policy wouldn't have prevented me from backing this one. Sometimes you just can't see them coming.


To be fair I'm still waiting on a £200+ pledge from a Troll Forged Miniatures kickstarter from 2012. KS has always been this way


Were you waiting on a specific sculpt? Fulfillment was taken over by Tom Anders of Impact! Minis, and he has been really good about getting people what they are owed. You might have to make your pledge history public for him to view it and confirm your pledge, if he doesn’t have the records from Trollforge.

The Assimilation Host miniatures I got from him rather than from Trollforge were much easier to assemble, without that invincible mold release.


Yep. I was able to get mine when he took over. One of the few bright spots from my list of failed campaigns: Drake 1&2 (though got half of my 1 pledge), Fairytale games, and Journey Wrath of Deamons. Also have a video game that oversold itself as having all these ex-square people involved that never materialized. I'm much more careful now but do have 2 games with Mythic that could end up failing.

This SWM one is hard as they were an established company with a prior track record of delivering and they had the product pretty much done and then were a victim of the pandemic, lack of contracts (with Troll trader) and about everything going wrong from those two instances that could.

Honestly kind of left with CMoN, Monolith and Reaper for cheap plastic crack now and Monolith is only running KS for stuff that's at the factory ready to start production.

   
Made in us
Serious Squig Herder






Charax wrote:
Schmapdi wrote:

Kickstarter has gotten really crappy the last few years. I won't back anything anymore if it's not from either an established company (with a reputation to lose) or a company with a proven history of delivering on campaigns. That being said that policy wouldn't have prevented me from backing this one. Sometimes you just can't see them coming.


To be fair I'm still waiting on a £200+ pledge from a Troll Forged Miniatures kickstarter from 2012. KS has always been this way


That's true - I guess I still technically have a pledge for the last SDE kickstarter that is "in progress."

But I mostly meant there seem to be a lot of fake companies with nonsense names that offer a lot of marketing and promises and then disappear into the night once they collect the money. Troll Forged, Secret Weapon and Super Dungeon Explore I'd put more in the category of "good faith failures."
   
Made in be
Dakka Veteran




Schmapdi wrote:
Charax wrote:
Schmapdi wrote:

Kickstarter has gotten really crappy the last few years. I won't back anything anymore if it's not from either an established company (with a reputation to lose) or a company with a proven history of delivering on campaigns. That being said that policy wouldn't have prevented me from backing this one. Sometimes you just can't see them coming.


To be fair I'm still waiting on a £200+ pledge from a Troll Forged Miniatures kickstarter from 2012. KS has always been this way


That's true - I guess I still technically have a pledge for the last SDE kickstarter that is "in progress."

But I mostly meant there seem to be a lot of fake companies with nonsense names that offer a lot of marketing and promises and then disappear into the night once they collect the money. Troll Forged, Secret Weapon and Super Dungeon Explore I'd put more in the category of "good faith failures."


There's a group in the middle where I think a lot of this stuff fits (especially Mythic recently) of "well, we are in a hole, but if we run another KS, it'll let us fulfil a previous one, and give us time to dig ourselves out of this hole" - it's done in good faith, they intend to deliver. But it's also deceptive, because they're not actually using the money they raise to deliver the thing they're advertising, they're just using it to keep the plates spinning.

Only lost $50 on the SWM thing (as there was no incentive beyond a few pots of paint to put in more at the KS stage) and I take some solace in being right when I said on here five years ago it was a red flag to cancel a funded KS project then relaunch it.

I also do wonder what happened to the money Justin got for selling the rest of the company. Was it all used to service other debtors? Or was there some left and he took it as a little bonus rather than give it to backers as a refund. Given KS "debts" don't have to be legally declared as such, it'd only be a moral obligation he had to try and give back what he could. If he's getting out of the industry I can certainly see him thinking "why bother?" I might well do the same, but I'd acknowledge it was an arsehole move.
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





A little more from FB

https://www.facebook.com/100063803552575/posts/pfbid0XHuxeM8i85mwhATCe3xm2oPMRjToKzAga1bgALUYxfxUkeXZgQcnwNXmyqvX3bSwl/?mibextid=cr9u03


"PS: Multiple requests were made to Louis Simpson, CEO of Troll Trader / TT Combat, on behalf of Elrik’s Hobbies, Secret Weapon, and other interested parties for him to provide:
1) The month and year in which he believes that his license ended
2) Evidence, or at least a statement, verifying that he has destroyed the SWM molds and masters in his possession.
Mr. Simpson refuses to do either of those things.
Secret Weapon Miniatures, Inc. maintains that Troll Trader, TT Combat, and Mr. Simpson never had a valid license agreement and, instead, offered to “begrudgingly” accept $50,000 in Secret Weapon product in exchange for destroying the molds and masters in his possession. Mr. Simpson kept the product and continues to run the molds. Mr. Simpson also continues to publicly lie about there being no ongoing legal dispute.
Communications between Secret Weapon and Troll Trader have been shared with Elrik’s Hobbies which show the effort that went into resolving this ongoing legal dispute, and Mr. Simpson’s repeated refusals to destroy the Secret Weapon molds and masters to which he has no rights.
Elrik’s Hobbies did not make the only offer for the Secret Weapon resin intellectual properties, but they were the only company willing to move forward without the legal dispute with Mr. Simpson being resolved. I am grateful to them for taking this risk, on the strength of the communications that they have reviewed, and for bringing the products that so many worked so hard to create back to the community."
   
Made in us
Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos






Toledo, OH

Monkeysloth wrote:This SWM one is hard as they were an established company with a prior track record of delivering and they had the product pretty much done and then were a victim of the pandemic, lack of contracts (with Troll trader) and about everything going wrong from those two instances that could.


I'm a little baffled at the collapse of SWM. Mr. Justin had, IIRC, a business background prior to starting the company. I know COVID restrictions hurt him, but I also know that resin bases aren't the market they were ten years ago. I"m wondering if there is an illness or some other personal event that is also impacting things. I liked Justin, and I like SWM products. A real shame he couldn't weather the storm.

Fugazi wrote: Dark Age Outpost (Viking palisades and buildings) from 2015 for me!


I got hosed in that one too.
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





Fugazi wrote: Dark Age Outpost (Viking palisades and buildings) from 2015 for me!


I got hosed in that one too.


You can count me in on that one as well!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/05/31 12:48:04


 
   
Made in us
Dangerous Outrider




Baltimore, MD USA

I was in Dark Age outposts, Robotech Tactics and that latest Relic Knights... and had to drop out of all 3... Wish I can say I had some super insight, but it was just bad financial timing... or maybe a guardian angel...
   
Made in us
Perfect Shot Dark Angels Predator Pilot





New York

 Smokestack wrote:
I was in Dark Age outposts, Robotech Tactics and that latest Relic Knights... and had to drop out of all 3... Wish I can say I had some super insight, but it was just bad financial timing... or maybe a guardian angel...

Get a load of master Yoda over here.
   
Made in us
[DCM]
-






-

 Original Timmy wrote:
Fugazi wrote: Dark Age Outpost (Viking palisades and buildings) from 2015 for me!


I got hosed in that one too.


You can count me in on that one as well!


Same here!

I've been burned on only a few Kickstarters - but I didn't think that this would be one of them.

Ultimately you have to be "OK" with not getting something you pledged for, but still, I didn't think SW would screw us all over like this.

   
Made in us
Raging Rat Ogre





Texas

 Alpharius wrote:
 Original Timmy wrote:
Fugazi wrote: Dark Age Outpost (Viking palisades and buildings) from 2015 for me!


I got hosed in that one too.


You can count me in on that one as well!


Same here!

I've been burned on only a few Kickstarters - but I didn't think that this would be one of them.

Ultimately you have to be "OK" with not getting something you pledged for, but still, I didn't think SW would screw us all over like this.


I concur. And the idea of pre-painted bases...that can be printed on a really good printer...why hasn't somebody done this yet? Obviously there is demand, and while losing $200 stings I would still be perfectly willing to purchase a TON of these in various options for my obsession.

Of course, it is easy to blame the Covid lockdowns (especially in California) for hurting businesses, but I still find it irritating that we were not offered store credit, paint sets or bases or...something. Live and learn I suppose.

Urusei Yatsura, Cerebus the Aardvark, Machiavelli, Plato and Happy Days. So, how was your childhood?

DC:70S+G++M+++B+I-Pat43/f+D++A(WTF)/eWD079R+++T(R)DM+ 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Riverside, CA USA

I still just want these damned bases on the market, don't care who makes them. Once again spent a few evenings this week making more stone-textured dungeon bases. Inexpensive and hardly difficult, but it does take a while and I would love to spend that time doing pretty much any other hobbying.

I'd love to see what else a company that did these bases could do. Was watching some modeling videos a few weeks ago and one guy was using printed 3D decals from https://quinta-studio.com/ for the cockpits and seat details. Mindblowing! I can only imagine the uses for such a decal on space marine banners or vehicle hull decorations. Instead we get another vendor for the same resin cast bases I wouldn't use before.

Spoiler:

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2023/05/31 18:49:48


~Kalamadea (aka ember)
My image gallery 
   
Made in us
Incorporating Wet-Blending






Add me to the Dark Age Outposts.

Just hoping the Stone Wash will return -- in quantity. That was great stuff and the original Les' Wash formula wasn't the same for me. (Or at least I can't get Les' Wash to work on anything more than terrain...

Crimson Scales and Wildspire Miniatures thread on Reaper! : https://forum.reapermini.com/index.php?/topic/103935-wildspire-miniatures-thread/ 
   
Made in be
Dakka Veteran




 Kalamadea wrote:
I still just want these damned bases on the market, don't care who makes them. Once again spent a few evenings this week making more stone-textured dungeon bases. Inexpensive and hardly difficult, but it does take a while and I would love to spend that time doing pretty much any other hobbying.

I'd love to see what else a company that did these bases could do. Was watching some modeling videos a few weeks ago and one guy was using printed 3D decals from https://quinta-studio.com/ for the cockpits and seat details. Mindblowing! I can only imagine the uses for such a decal on space marine banners or vehicle hull decorations. Instead we get another vendor for the same resin cast bases I wouldn't use before.

Spoiler:

Yeah likewise - have an entire set of Blackstone Fortress I've been putting off painting as these bases would have been perfect for it!
   
Made in gb
Leader of the Sept







deano2099 wrote:
 Kalamadea wrote:
I still just want these damned bases on the market, don't care who makes them. Once again spent a few evenings this week making more stone-textured dungeon bases. Inexpensive and hardly difficult, but it does take a while and I would love to spend that time doing pretty much any other hobbying.

I'd love to see what else a company that did these bases could do. Was watching some modeling videos a few weeks ago and one guy was using printed 3D decals from https://quinta-studio.com/ for the cockpits and seat details. Mindblowing! I can only imagine the uses for such a decal on space marine banners or vehicle hull decorations. Instead we get another vendor for the same resin cast bases I wouldn't use before.

Spoiler:

Yeah likewise - have an entire set of Blackstone Fortress I've been putting off painting as these bases would have been perfect for it!


Same here!

I wasn't in for much, but disappointed as the product looked amazing.

Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!

Terranwing - w3;d1;l1
51st Dunedinw2;d0;l0
Cadre Coronal Afterglow w1;d0;l0 
   
Made in gb
Junior Officer with Laspistol





The Shire(s)

The Elrik's Hobby takeover is confirmed- I received the following email yesterday:
Hello -

As a former Secret Weapons Miniatures customer, you are receiving this email since Elrik's Hobbies has acquired the Secret Weapon Miniature's resin IP for their bases and terrain. Additionally, we have retained the remaining inventory for paints, washes, pigments, brass etch, Tablescapes, and more. You can find all of these items and more at the links below:

Round Beveled Edge Bases

Round Lip Bases

Brass Etch

Paints

Pigments

Washes

Diplay Bases

SWM Basing Accessories

Tablescapes Realms

Tablescapes Tiles

Terrain

Over the next couple months, we will be highlighting all of the products that are now available through Elrik's Hobbies. We also plan to add various base sizes to the lines where possible. If you have any special requests, send us an email at hobbygeneral@elrikshobbies.com.

If you wish to subscribe for future email updates, please do so at the bottom of our website at Elrik's Hobbies. Overall, we look forward to providing Secret Weapon Miniatures products and expanding on their awesome base lines and terrain.

Kind regards,

Stefan A. Vieau



Automatically Appended Next Post:
I am particularly glad about the brass etch, getting harder and harder to find that kind of stuff.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/07/25 09:23:04


 ChargerIIC wrote:
If algae farm paste with a little bit of your grandfather in it isn't Grimdark I don't know what is.
 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba




The Great State of New Jersey

I met the Elrik guys at Origins, had some good long chats with them. Seem like really good dudes, look forward to seeing what they do with the product lines they picked up!

CoALabaer wrote:
Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
 
   
 
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