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I wasnt sure how much strength the Driver Cannon was going to have and before it was Heay d6 with d6 damage.
Just saw the update from spikybits yesturday (if to be believed),
The Stormsurge costs 330 pts (now cheaper than the Repulsor Executioner?!)

Pulse Blastcannon is the more expensive weapon ( i suspect this has gone up ni points to cover the 5 point reduction).
Focused -Heavy 2, S16, AP-4, dmg 12.
Dispersed -Heavy 6, S12, AP-2, dmg 4.

Driver Cannon is Heavy 3d3, S10, AP-4, dmg 3, Blast.
Cluster Rockets retain Blast ability. Built-in 4++.

Driver cannon is still tough then. and now doin between 3 and 9 shots (instead of 1-6) and each does 3 damage (instead of D6), I was expecting something a bit like hammerhead like D3+2 damage, but was not expecting on average 6 shots.

EightFoldPath wrote:
My predictions (that could all be wrong):

1. Tau will be OP on release, win plenty of tournaments and eventually get a nerf and/or be codex creeped by later codexes. PSA - do not buy 15 Piranhas if they are totally OP and then cry about it when they get nerfed ork buggy style.

2. Richard Siegler will win a major using Kauyon in the final in 2022.

3. He will also win with them after they are rightly nerfed and everyone says they can't win anymore. #justsieglerthings

4. The Tau vs melee Ork match up will favour the Tau. This one is the most bold of the predictions as it relies on the Tau points being as good as Orks and Tau keeping FTGG. But, I feel mechanically that the army that traditionally loves being charged is going to be good against "charging is my only plan" armies.

So prediction 1 took a single week of tournament results to get going... They already look absolutely busted, and I saw other players at my tournament stumbling around in a daze muttering about ABFPs. I guess we never know with GW and nerfs though. WIll they hit Tau alongside Tyranids and Custodes, or release Eldar to make us forget about these three? Good news is there doesn't seem to be anything like ork buggies that will get spammed to the max then nerfed, seems to be mainly balanced lists of a wide variety of broken datasheets for now, but watch out over the next few weeks as people work out what is the best of the best, and also magnetise those Crisis suits as some of the guns won't be staying at 5 points for long.

Prediction 2 looks a bit shakier. The issue being Montka is just so good. I think I might need a nerf to be gifted from GW to Montka to stand a chance of making this one. Prediction 3 still looks good based on LVO.

Prediction 4, any melee focused Orks able to weigh in on how hard the new Tau match up is right now? Do you charge in and murder them or do they cheaply screen you out and gun you down with their insanely priced guns?

Considering Custodes are yet to actually win a major outright, despite their top showings, I don't believe Custodes will suffer any major changes. That being said, Tau are basically Castellans of 8th, and need to be smote. Eldar being even close to OP is good for the game, as they have been borderline broken for all of 9th, and deserve at least 1 day of reckoning.

All the strength of Tau however can still be undone by strong dedicated shooting (Eradicators/Hellblasters/HB squads) There is nothing really scary other than the fact that they can turn 1 shoot an entire army off a table, currently. Expect their damage and range to get nerfed.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Considering Custodes are yet to actually win a major outright, despite their top showings, I don't believe Custodes will suffer any major changes. That being said, Tau are basically Castellans of 8th, and need to be smote. Eldar being even close to OP is good for the game, as they have been borderline broken for all of 9th, and deserve at least 1 day of reckoning.

All the strength of Tau however can still be undone by strong dedicated shooting (Eradicators/Hellblasters/HB squads) There is nothing really scary other than the fact that they can turn 1 shoot an entire army off a table, currently. Expect their damage and range to get nerfed.

no, feth that, i do NOT want my eldar to be broken, this "i deserve to be OP because i sucked" mentality has to die

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Considering Custodes are yet to actually win a major outright, despite their top showings, I don't believe Custodes will suffer any major changes. That being said, Tau are basically Castellans of 8th, and need to be smote. Eldar being even close to OP is good for the game, as they have been borderline broken for all of 9th, and deserve at least 1 day of reckoning.

All the strength of Tau however can still be undone by strong dedicated shooting (Eradicators/Hellblasters/HB squads) There is nothing really scary other than the fact that they can turn 1 shoot an entire army off a table, currently. Expect their damage and range to get nerfed.

no, feth that, i do NOT want my eldar to be broken, this "i deserve to be OP because i sucked" mentality has to die

Too late. Weaver of Fates dice is broken. Auto 6s? Yeah. Good luck. Right now a GSC hand weapon made of garbage and spit does more damage then a Custodes' axe. Beat that with a nerf bat.

EightFoldPath wrote:


Prediction 4, any melee focused Orks able to weigh in on how hard the new Tau match up is right now? Do you charge in and murder them or do they cheaply screen you out and gun you down with their insanely priced guns?

I'll reserve judgement until I get a few games in against them. But as it stands I think my Alphork strike is now just a swing list against Tau. If I go first I have relatively high confidence I will win. If I go second it is entirely dependent upon the level of shenanigans that occur. Tau got a lot of new tricks they can pull the biggest saving grace as far as I can see though is that the highest performing Tau lists go heavily into anti-shooting screens rather than anti-Melee screens. The top list at the Beachhead brawl had 2 units of Kroot and a unit of dogs. that was it as far as screening units went. On the other hand, his list also had not 1, not 2 but 18 Shield drones. A solid 10% of his list was shield drones.

Furthermore, about 2/3rds of his list was in 4 units of battlesuits, 2 of broadsides and 2 of crisis. As a reminder here, A unit of 10 Kommandos is now 125pts. If they get the charge off the 9 kommando boyz do 36 attacks, 30 hits and 20 wounds at -1AP. The Nob swings with his PK and gets 4 attacks, 2.66 hits and at S12 with +1 to wound its 2.2 wounds at -3AP 2dmg each. The 20 wounds will be tanked by the shield drones I believe but the nobz swings will have to go against the Iridium tank who goes to a 5+ save and likely loses 2-3 wounds. Anything else that swings will be killing Battlesuits after that, and again thats a 125pt unit destroying the defenses of a 325(ish) point unit. If I get a second mob of Kommandos against them those 20 wounds get tanked by mostly 4+ saves meaning 10 dmg no FNP and that is 2.5 dead suits out of 5, the nob finishes off the iridium suit so thats 3 out of 5 dead.

My new Alphork strike list https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/803640.page contains 11 units which can reliably assault turn 1 and 2 others which can usually do so, along with 2 trukkz which can suicide charge for a chance at a successful charge, all the while my mek gunz plink away at hard targets. Only downside in my opinion is that Tau receive no real punishment for being stuck in melee. It would have been nice if GW had given them at least -1 to hit to counter act their plethora of re-rolls and +1 to hits.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Right now a GSC hand weapon made of garbage and spit does more damage then a Custodes' axe. Beat that with a nerf bat.

It doesn't sound like you're objectively analyzing this.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Right now a GSC hand weapon made of garbage and spit does more damage then a Custodes' axe. Beat that with a nerf bat.

It doesn't sound like you're objectively analyzing this.

So right now this,

Deals greater damage than a weapon designed and weilded by demi-gods to protect and defend a literal god. It's like saying a IG Platoon leader's power sword should do as much damage as the spear weilded by a 10' tall science experiment of a god. Oh wait, it already does. Crackers.

It's completely stupid that the GSC have access to stronger melee weapons than Custodes.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Right now a GSC hand weapon made of garbage and spit does more damage then a Custodes' axe. Beat that with a nerf bat.

It doesn't sound like you're objectively analyzing this.

So right now this,

Deals greater damage than a weapon designed and weilded by demi-gods to protect and defend a literal god. It's like saying a IG Platoon leader's power sword should do as much damage as the spear weilded by a 10' tall science experiment of a god. Oh wait, it already does. Crackers.

It's completely stupid that the GSC have access to stronger melee weapons than Custodes.

Why? I would generally argue that the effect of a melee weapon in particular is the sum of the wielder and the weapon. And abberants can use much heavier weapons than a Custodes, so I see no issues there. Custodes might be engineered by some super space wizard, but abberants are the effect of what basically is engineering by the greatest intellect in the whole universe (the hive mind). After all, many Tyranid organisms show some pretty insane capabilities when it comes to their weaponry. Just look at some claws that can tear right through the heaviest armour humans use.

And besides, there's no reason why Custodes should be the best at everything. It's the same thing as some people being incredibly salty because at some point some of them got sliced to bits by some of the best warriors in the whole galaxy (Harlequins).

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Considering Custodes are yet to actually win a major outright, despite their top showings, I don't believe Custodes will suffer any major changes. That being said, Tau are basically Castellans of 8th, and need to be smote. Eldar being even close to OP is good for the game, as they have been borderline broken for all of 9th, and deserve at least 1 day of reckoning.

All the strength of Tau however can still be undone by strong dedicated shooting (Eradicators/Hellblasters/HB squads) There is nothing really scary other than the fact that they can turn 1 shoot an entire army off a table, currently. Expect their damage and range to get nerfed.

I love that you try to claim that Eldar deserve to be OP because they have been bad for a few months in 1 while generally being at or near the top for atleast the last decade.

No one 'deserves' to be 'close to OP'. feth that gak.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Right now a GSC hand weapon made of garbage and spit does more damage then a Custodes' axe. Beat that with a nerf bat.

It doesn't sound like you're objectively analyzing this.

So right now this,

Deals greater damage than a weapon designed and weilded by demi-gods to protect and defend a literal god. It's like saying a IG Platoon leader's power sword should do as much damage as the spear weilded by a 10' tall science experiment of a god. Oh wait, it already does. Crackers.

It's completely stupid that the GSC have access to stronger melee weapons than Custodes.

I'm going to say the hammer designed to mine ores like adamantium should hit harder. I mean no one is mining that stuff with a power weapon for a reason after all.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Considering Custodes are yet to actually win a major outright, despite their top showings, I don't believe Custodes will suffer any major changes. That being said, Tau are basically Castellans of 8th, and need to be smote. Eldar being even close to OP is good for the game, as they have been borderline broken for all of 9th, and deserve at least 1 day of reckoning.

Eh no. Only noobs and those who don't care about balance would make armies OP because they were bad before. That's THE MOST STUPID reason for army being OP.

You just showed you want yourself to have I win auto button because you don't want to play well. You just want to win by having busted army to compensate your gaming skill or lack of it..

tneva82 wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Considering Custodes are yet to actually win a major outright, despite their top showings, I don't believe Custodes will suffer any major changes. That being said, Tau are basically Castellans of 8th, and need to be smote. Eldar being even close to OP is good for the game, as they have been borderline broken for all of 9th, and deserve at least 1 day of reckoning.

Eh no. Only noobs and those who don't care about balance would make armies OP because they were bad before. That's THE MOST STUPID reason for army being OP.

You just showed you want yourself to have I win auto button because you don't want to play well. You just want to win by having busted army to compensate your gaming skill or lack of it..

it`s slow codex release problem, older codexes eat nerfs, because they are much more powerful than the old ones and new codexes just abuse the fact that they lost some of their power.
With this kind of codex releases if new codex is not considered super strong on release, it will probably have huge issues in the long run.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

Too late. Weaver of Fates dice is broken. Auto 6s? Yeah. Good luck. Right now a GSC hand weapon made of garbage and spit does more damage then a Custodes' axe. Beat that with a nerf bat.

what?

I'm assuming youre talking about the eldar strands of fate? Its not an auto 6 on anything, you have to roll on a table and hope you get the one you need.
Are aberrants stronger than whatever custodes can pick up an axe?


sorry but you're giving off "big scrub energy" with that mentality

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Deals greater damage than a weapon designed and weilded by demi-gods to protect and defend a literal god. It's like saying a IG Platoon leader's power sword should do as much damage as the spear weilded by a 10' tall science experiment of a god. Oh wait, it already does. Crackers.

It's completely stupid that the GSC have access to stronger melee weapons than Custodes.

An Aberrant is base 2 attacks at WS3. W3 5+ and no invuln.
An Allarus Custodian has four attacks, an extra wound, hits on 2s, 2+ save with a 4+ invuln and 6+ FNP, a misercordia, and has a grenade launcher as well as a melee weapon that also shoots at D2.

That the Aberrant has an extra damage is feels irrelevant to the "god like" status of Custodes.

 Dolnikan wrote:


Why? I would generally argue that the effect of a melee weapon in particular is the sum of the wielder and the weapon. And abberants can use much heavier weapons than a Custodes, so I see no issues there. Custodes might be engineered by some super space wizard, but abberants are the effect of what basically is engineering by the greatest intellect in the whole universe (the hive mind). After all, many Tyranid organisms show some pretty insane capabilities when it comes to their weaponry. Just look at some claws that can tear right through the heaviest armour humans use.

And besides, there's no reason why Custodes should be the best at everything. It's the same thing as some people being incredibly salty because at some point some of them got sliced to bits by some of the best warriors in the whole galaxy (Harlequins).

Aberrants have the same strength value as Custodians and I can all but guarantee you that fluff depicting a fight between Custodians and Aberrants would feature a single Custodian slaughtering dozens of them in single combat.

And no, Custodians being the best humanoid combatants in the galaxy is pretty much canon. Among all army books only knights are more elite.

With that said Fezzik is just whining. Custodes are one of if not the best army in the game atm (though Tau may change that), and there's nothing wrong with exceptionally powerful and skilled fighters being able to handle them in melee like Solitaires.

Harlequin Troupes shouldn't generally be capable of it though and you're frankly merely wrong if you say otherwise.

So, the nerfs have happened and I've got my wished for Monkta nerf as well. Siegler, get cracking on number 2/3 please. I'm also laughing at the Eldar portion of the follow up post.