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Well the pictures posted here made me go and check them out as had not seen - I love Skaven
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
Mantic are going to be running a competition at both Salute and Adepticon, here are the details for anyone's who's going:
Kill all you can! – Win £75 by topping our Pandora Leaderboard
Scenario 1 is all about killing Veer-myn and we’ll be running a leaderboard on the day recording the number of kills.
The person with the highest number of kills will win themselves £50/$75 to spend on the Mantic webstore. If the top scorer then beats
the score from the other show, we’ll increase the prize to £75/$100! So if Bob at Salute kills 18 and Tim kills 16 at Adepticon, the Brits will have won.
They are also going to be displaying all of the new Corporation, Veer-myn and Project Pandora stuff at their booth.
*UPDATE*
Beast of War have posted a Project Pandora unboxing:
DeathGod wrote:
These models keep getting worse and worse, don't they?
Your joking right? Mantic's models have show clear levels of improvement in both sculpting, casting and modelling options from army to army. Even their painting and photography has improved, Mantic are hardly up to GW standards yet but their getting there, Hell even the stuff I was complaining about the veer-myn is really down to personal preferences and nothing else (nothing a few conversions can't fix)
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2012/04/19 17:18:21
Totalwargamer.co.uk have got a sale on everything Mantic this weekend, 30% off RRP (including pre-orders for the Vermeen).
Best bargain on there though has to be Dwarf King's Hold for £25, think that's an insanely cheap deal for a wonderful little game (considering how much £25 usually gets you these days). Not sure about Project Pandora as I haven't played it yet, but again for that amount of money think it is worth the risk!
I just received my Corporation Army set to use with my Elysian Drop Troops, and even though the scale of the miniatures is small compared to the GW plastic kits, they are going to be a perfect fit for converting with the Elysians.
I just need to purchase some more Elysian Drop Troop weapon sprues and equipment packs and I should be all set.
I posted a couple of comparison pictures on my blog for those who are interested.
Claimh_Solais wrote:how can people like stuff like this ?! the modells look so ridiculous??!
oh yeah I forgot people love Mantic ...and hate GW ....hipsters
How can it possibly be possible that any other person on the entire planet could like different things to what I like?
Clearly this is impossible, and I must dedicate my life to informing these people that they are mentally ill and making their decisions purely because they are hating GW haters full of hate who stay awake all night sticking pins into voodoo dolls of Tom Kirby.
That makes so much more sense to me than entertaining the thought that any single one of the models that Mantic produces is anything other than a steaming turd sculpted by a 5-year-old. This is my opinion, and I am the most important person on the planet, so clearly this is the truth of the matter.
Claimh_Solais wrote:how can people like stuff like this ?! the modells look so ridiculous??!
Now this is a silly question and/or statement. Unsure based on the use of punctuation, but I digress...
Most of the Mantic figs aren't my cup-o-tea, but "Look so ridiculous" could just as easily be applied to 7 meter tall super humans in plate armor, who carry assault rifles that shoot bullets the size of grenades and cover their battle armor in loin cloths and pseudo-catholic inspired trinkets and inscriptions.
If you've got a genuine beef with design, aesthetic, execution, etc., by all means make a comment, but comments like the ones quoted above don't add anything to the discussion.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/04/23 21:10:48
Littlbitz wrote:I just received my Corporation Army set to use with my Elysian Drop Troops, and even though the scale of the miniatures is small compared to the GW plastic kits, they are going to be a perfect fit for converting with the Elysians.
I just need to purchase some more Elysian Drop Troop weapon sprues and equipment packs and I should be all set.
I posted a couple of comparison pictures on my blog for those who are interested.
Littlbitz, I look forward to seeing how this progresses. I've been a fan of Elysians since the Battle of Armageddon and the SM Scout conversions were published in WD. I've been impressed with the FW Elysians, but haven't bought any because of the steep prices. Seeing as how you've got experience with the FW resin Elysians, I'm interested to see how the Corporation Marines convert for you. It looks like it could be a very cost-effective way to build an Elysian army.
Man, I wish there was a real Black Library where I could get a Black Library Card and take out Black Library Books without having to buy them. Of course, late fees would be your soul. But it would be worth it. - InquisitorMack
I have done an initial conversion with some simple bits swaps, and everything seems to fit pretty well.
I want to do a few more and get some paint on one or two before I post some pics, but they will be coming.
Any person here willing to put an Infinity model and a Corporation mini side by side? I'm starting with Infinity and I'm also toying the fact that I can use them for IG, but mixing them with normal IG will look silly, so Mantic marines might be the way to go.
Chowderhead wrote:Quick question on the Veer'Myn (Whoever came up with the name deserves a slap on the back of the head).
What the hell role are they supposed to fill? They don't work for counts as for any GW product (Let's face it. No-one plays these models for the actual game.) and just seem off. How does a rat get to space? What do they eat? Why drills for weapons? Why doesn't the Corporation just leave out jumbo-sized mousetraps? Why don't they just go in and kill them all?
I think my main question can be summed up in one sentence: Why do these exist!?!?
Ohhhhh right because Orks and Tyranids make sooooooo much sense too. Gotcha.
3500 pts Black Legion
3500 pts Iron Warriors
2500 pts World Eaters
1950 pts Emperor's Children
333 pts Daemonhunters
Chowderhead wrote:Quick question on the Veer'Myn (Whoever came up with the name deserves a slap on the back of the head).
What the hell role are they supposed to fill? They don't work for counts as for any GW product (Let's face it. No-one plays these models for the actual game.) and just seem off. How does a rat get to space? What do they eat? Why drills for weapons? Why doesn't the Corporation just leave out jumbo-sized mousetraps? Why don't they just go in and kill them all?
I think my main question can be summed up in one sentence: Why do these exist!?!?
Ohhhhh right because Orks and Tyranids make sooooooo much sense too. Gotcha.
Actually, they do. They make loads of sense and show how even a low-tech and feral threat actually provide a threat to humanity even though they are outgunned. The reproductive cycle of both nids and orks go a long way to making them dangerous as the nids basically turn all organic materials into 'more nids' making every death of a human increase the nids forces while most dead nids are recycled. Orks are similar as even one dead corpse can spawn thousands of orks which are born info adulthood with their own portable ecosystem down to servants and food supply. Also being born with all their technical knowledge intact means that destroying or enslaving a population can't oppress the species via lack of knowledge.
Basically 'ratmen' suffer from the need to bear young, reproduce in a mammalian way, needing to transfer knowledge to the next generation via education, and needing a homeworld or civilization to keep the race going... something the corporation would assumed bomb back to the stoneage (literally) and enslaving any living species. Combine that with the fluff that this race of ratmen is hidden and the greatest threat to humanity and you get a very silly concept to many. And if they come up with a psuedo-science origin which explains the shortcomings of rats in space, they will probably need to be something like 'oh yeah, they reproduce from spores and are genetically engineered with knowledge intact! scary!'
People like fluff to make sense, at least GW's grimdark has done a pretty good job in making people like the fluff.
My Models: Ork Army: Waaagh 'Az-ard - Chibi Dungeon RPG Models! - My Workblog! =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
RULE OF COOL: When converting models, there is only one rule: "The better your model looks, the less people will complain about it."
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
MODELING FOR ADVANTAGE TEST: rigeld2: "Easy test - are you willing to play the model as a stock one? No? MFA."
Basically 'ratmen' suffer from the need to bear young, reproduce in a mammalian way, needing to transfer knowledge to the next generation via education, and needing a homeworld or civilization to keep the race going... something the corporation would assumed bomb back to the stoneage (literally) and enslaving any living species. Combine that with the fluff that this race of ratmen is hidden and the greatest threat to humanity and you get a very silly concept to many. And if they come up with a psuedo-science origin which explains the shortcomings of rats in space, they will probably need to be something like 'oh yeah, they reproduce from spores and are genetically engineered with knowledge intact! scary!'
People like fluff to make sense, at least GW's grimdark has done a pretty good job in making people like the fluff.
Rats have short reproductive cycles and large litters. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7141067.stm Also demonstrates the ability of rats to quickly multiply if the resources are available. Make the rat omnivores, and then you have a race that consumes biomass to fuel the exponential growth of their population without needing to beat people over the head with it as part of the fluff. It can just be implied.
As far as education, an argument can also be made for genetic memory (instinct). As much as it might bother you, it's not complete quackery that DNA may carry more "memory" than we are currently aware of (epigenetics and all that fun stuff). So that the only time needed for child rearing would be in the short time needed for weaning. Given that this is all fiction, the Veermyn might not even need that, or that period could be shortened even further.
Those 2 factors alone would eliminate the need for a homeworld, or any large sustained population. It could be written that they come in cycles, having been thought of as wiped out only to reappear later on once the population has regrown and regeared.
So yes, rat men that might combine some of the intelligence of a human and the reproductive capabilities of rats are probably as believable a threat as mushroom men that like to kill themselves as much as other races or an insect pest problem (I guess they don't have any neonicotinoids in the 41st to spray the Nids with). But once again, for a universe based on fiction I don't see why it's necessary to have to write a dissertation on whether a race is an actual threat or not, or why a superior race didn't squash the other like a bug while it could (as if that hasn't happened repeatedly over the course of human history). I'm sure if we really wanted to we could make an entire thread shredding GW's nonsensical pseudo-science/religion/magic. But really a lot of the anti-ratmen criticisms in this thread are just looking for excuses to hate them, so long as they are not a direct GW analogue or GW product. Better off sticking with solid criticisms such as the recycling fantasy models, Mantic's hatred of boots, or their rising prices.
Hexol wrote:Rats have short reproductive cycles and large litters.
Only because they are small and primitive. It just doesn't scale up the way you think it does.
As far as education, an argument can also be made for genetic memory (instinct). As much as it might bother you, it's not complete quackery that DNA may carry more "memory" than we are currently aware of (epigenetics and all that fun stuff). So that the only time needed for child rearing would be in the short time needed for weaning. Given that this is all fiction, the Veermyn might not even need that, or that period could be shortened even further.
No, that's complete quackery. What you suggest goes past epigenetics and past even Lamarckism. The Orks were specifically engineered to possess particular scientific knowledge by highly advanced beings. Veermyn weren't.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/04/25 05:47:23
"When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-C.S. Lewis
So rats evolving into a humanoid form is okay, but them object that they wouldn't be able to have part of that evolution be genetic memory? That breaks the suspension of disbelief for you?
"If you're wondering how he eats and breathes and other science facts
Then repeat to yourself 'It's just a show-- I should really just relax."
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/04/25 06:52:00
Balance in pick up games? Two people, each with their own goals for the game, design half a board game on their own without knowing the layout of the board and hope it all works out. Good luck with that. The faster you can find like minded individuals who want the same things from the game as you, the better.
frozenwastes wrote:So rats evolving into a humanoid form is okay, but them object that they wouldn't be able to have part of that evolution be genetic memory? That breaks the suspension of disbelief for you?
Rats evolving into a humanoid form is not okay, because it's symptomatic of the botched scope of the Warpath setting. For humanity to be challenged by the descendants of the common rat enfeebles them. It's not even pitiful, because that would require that the Corporation possess enough positive attributes for the audience to feel sympathy.
The handwaving by the Veermyn's proponents just adds insult to injury.
"When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-C.S. Lewis
frozenwastes wrote:
"If you're wondering how he eats and breathes and other science facts
Then repeat to yourself 'It's just a show-- I should really just relax."
Right, although I admit this is a pretty amusing discussion
(although perhaps shouldn't it go in the Mantic Discussions thread in the main section? It's not really news)
GW's game universe has gained legitimacy through age, nothing more, and it's hilarious reading some of these comments trying to argue that it is somehow more plausible. If you wanted to and had time, you could sit down and make a list of a hundred items that make absolutely no sense about 40k for instance. Of course you could do exactly the same thing with Star Trek if you wanted to. But the point is, most people are just willing to enjoy the show.
Eh.... , folks you are NOT discussing about RL genetics and evolution within an imagined universe that has a lot of fantastic elements from the start on, do you?
André Winter L'Art Noir - Game Design and Translation Studio
I think this thread's getting a bit unwieldy now, so I'm going to lock it, one can always throw in a link to it if needs be.
Feel free by all means to start up a new Mantic thread as/when.
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
3500 pts Black Legion
2500 pts World Eaters
1950 pts Emperor's Children
