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Kdash wrote:

 Nym wrote:
Guys, I'm completely lost with all those FAQs and Beta rules...

Can we use Warptime on a unit that was teleported with the Dark Matter Crystal ?? (if yes, can you point me to the FAQ that says so or explain clearly why we can ?)

The new beta rules didn't change anything in regards to the previous FAQ statements that preventing you from doing it.

So, no, you still can't warptime a unit that enters the battlefield in the same turn (DMC counts as leaving and re-entering the battlefield).

Think this is debatable - most major tournaments do allow this - i have hard wording in writing from NOVA that it was allowed in their tournament as I asked explicitly prior to be sure... So make of that what you will. But reading your reply again maybe you are agreeing as you noted re-entering...

 ArtyomTrityak wrote:
LOCUS OF CONJURATION
Tzeentch Daemons Stratagem
Sorcerous power surrounds Tzeentch’s chosen champions.
Use this Stratagem at the start of your Psychic phase. Select a TZEENTCH DAEMON CHARACTER from your
army – until the end of the phase you can re-roll any failed Psychic tests made for friendly TZEENTCH DAEMON units
within 6" of that model.


Question: Does it work for TS DPs? I have Daemons detachment so can for example Changeling use this one and give reroll to TS DPs?

FAQ ruled not in errata. The stratagems only work on codex daemons.

 ArtyomTrityak wrote:
LOCUS OF CONJURATION
Tzeentch Daemons Stratagem
Sorcerous power surrounds Tzeentch’s chosen champions.
Use this Stratagem at the start of your Psychic phase. Select a TZEENTCH DAEMON CHARACTER from your
army – until the end of the phase you can re-roll any failed Psychic tests made for friendly TZEENTCH DAEMON units
within 6" of that model.


Question: Does it work for TS DPs? I have Daemons detachment so can for example Changeling use this one and give reroll to TS DPs?

Yes in this instance you can. The target of the strat has to come from the deamons codex, but once the strat goes off its able to effect any tzeentch deamon within 6".

Well that was a shitshow. One question got the answers of “maybe, no, and yes”.

The correct answer is no. Check the FAQs. Daemons stratagems can only be used by units with the daemon faction keyword. Just like how magnus and mortarion cannot use the daemon codex deep strike even if it is “unlocked” by other daemon detachments.

Maxwell00 wrote:
Well that was a shitshow. One question got the answers of “maybe, no, and yes”.

The correct answer is no. Check the FAQs. Daemons stratagems can only be used by units with the daemon faction keyword. Just like how magnus and mortarion cannot use the daemon codex deep strike even if it is “unlocked” by other daemon detachments.

You're right, the stratagem can only be used by a codex:daemon character. But that is what everyone has already been saying.

However, that stratagem then gives that codex:daemon character an aura that affects all tzeentch daemons. These don't need to be daemons from the codex:daemons, they can be any units with the <tzeentch> and <daemon> keywords.

Until GW comes out with an faq that says otherwise, this is how it works, as these models are being affected by an aura and not being the target of a stratagem.

Niiru wrote:

Maxwell00 wrote:
Well that was a shitshow. One question got the answers of “maybe, no, and yes”.

The correct answer is no. Check the FAQs. Daemons stratagems can only be used by units with the daemon faction keyword. Just like how magnus and mortarion cannot use the daemon codex deep strike even if it is “unlocked” by other daemon detachments.

You're right, the stratagem can only be used by a codex:daemon character. But that is what everyone has already been saying.

However, that stratagem then gives that codex:daemon character an aura that affects all tzeentch daemons. These don't need to be daemons from the codex:daemons, they can be any units with the <tzeentch> and <daemon> keywords.

Until GW comes out with an faq that says otherwise, this is how it works, as these models are being affected by an aura and not being the target of a stratagem.

Yep, which is why i said the target of the strat has to come from the deamon codex. Its just like the slaanesh or khorne loci, it can effect non-deamon codex units once its been activated. And ArtyomTrityak specifically said he has a deamon codex detachment and the target would be the changeling, so he is all good to make that work.

Awesome, thanks. I'm thinking about removing Magnus from the list and instead giving rerolls from daemons aura for 3xDP and Ahriman.

Niiru wrote:

Maxwell00 wrote:
Well that was a shitshow. One question got the answers of “maybe, no, and yes”.

The correct answer is no. Check the FAQs. Daemons stratagems can only be used by units with the daemon faction keyword. Just like how magnus and mortarion cannot use the daemon codex deep strike even if it is “unlocked” by other daemon detachments.

You're right, the stratagem can only be used by a codex:daemon character. But that is what everyone has already been saying.

However, that stratagem then gives that codex:daemon character an aura that affects all tzeentch daemons. These don't need to be daemons from the codex:daemons, they can be any units with the <tzeentch> and <daemon> keywords.

Until GW comes out with an faq that says otherwise, this is how it works, as these models are being affected by an aura and not being the target of a stratagem.

I disagree. FAQ says

Q: When a Stratagem from Codex: Chaos Daemons uses the Daemon keyword, can it be used to affect any unit with the Daemon keyword, or only units with the Daemon Faction keyword?
A: These Stratagems can only affect units with the Daemon Faction keyword.

A non daemon faction unit would still be affected by the stratagem in this case. Nothing about being a “target” is mentioned.

Maxwell00 wrote:

Niiru wrote:

Maxwell00 wrote:
Well that was a shitshow. One question got the answers of “maybe, no, and yes”.

The correct answer is no. Check the FAQs. Daemons stratagems can only be used by units with the daemon faction keyword. Just like how magnus and mortarion cannot use the daemon codex deep strike even if it is “unlocked” by other daemon detachments.

You're right, the stratagem can only be used by a codex:daemon character. But that is what everyone has already been saying.

However, that stratagem then gives that codex:daemon character an aura that affects all tzeentch daemons. These don't need to be daemons from the codex:daemons, they can be any units with the <tzeentch> and <daemon> keywords.

Until GW comes out with an faq that says otherwise, this is how it works, as these models are being affected by an aura and not being the target of a stratagem.

I disagree. FAQ says

Q: When a Stratagem from Codex: Chaos Daemons uses the Daemon keyword, can it be used to affect any unit with the Daemon keyword, or only units with the Daemon Faction keyword?
A: These Stratagems can only affect units with the Daemon Faction keyword.

A non daemon faction unit would still be affected by the stratagem in this case. Nothing about being a “target” is mentioned.

Depends where you define the end of an 'effect' I guess.

The stratagem is only directly affecting the Daemon, so that's fine.

The aura that the stratagem creates is then causing a knock-on effect on other daemons, some codex and some CSM.

For example:

AURA OF ACQUIESCENCE
Use this Stratagem at the start of any Fight phase. Select a SLAANESH DAEMON unit from your army – enemy units
within 3" of that unit reduce their Attacks characteristic by 1 (to a minimum of 1) until the end of that phase.

So according to your definition, only Codex: Daemons can be affected by auras caused by stratagems. So only enemies who are also Daemons would have their attacks reduced by 1.

If you see what I mean? Obviously that is not how this stratagem is meant to work, and so I would argue that the other stratagem works the same way.

Niiru wrote:


AURA OF ACQUIESCENCE
Use this Stratagem at the start of any Fight phase. Select a SLAANESH DAEMON unit from your army – enemy units
within 3" of that unit reduce their Attacks characteristic by 1 (to a minimum of 1) until the end of that phase.

So according to your definition, only Codex: Daemons can be affected by auras caused by stratagems. So only enemies who are also Daemons would have their attacks reduced by 1.

If you see what I mean? Obviously that is not how this stratagem is meant to work, and so I would argue that the other stratagem works the same way.

You’re strawmanning my point, intentionally or otherwise. If aura of acquiescence said “enemy Slaanesh Daemon units within 3”” then you’d have a fair comparison. Because the previous stratagem we were discussing called out tzeentch daemons though, it’s a bit different. Regardless, it’s probably near the bottom of the growing list of confusingly written rules interactions. Pardon me while I review the rule book & FAQ, big faq 2, my codex & faq, chapter approved & faq to find an answer to something. All the while some things aren’t even centrally located (like the clarity on taking relics outside your warlords faction, which is in the death guard faq).

Maxwell00 wrote:

Niiru wrote:


AURA OF ACQUIESCENCE
Use this Stratagem at the start of any Fight phase. Select a SLAANESH DAEMON unit from your army – enemy units
within 3" of that unit reduce their Attacks characteristic by 1 (to a minimum of 1) until the end of that phase.

So according to your definition, only Codex: Daemons can be affected by auras caused by stratagems. So only enemies who are also Daemons would have their attacks reduced by 1.

If you see what I mean? Obviously that is not how this stratagem is meant to work, and so I would argue that the other stratagem works the same way.

You’re strawmanning my point, intentionally or otherwise. If aura of acquiescence said “enemy Slaanesh Daemon units within 3”” then you’d have a fair comparison. Because the previous stratagem we were discussing called out tzeentch daemons though, it’s a bit different. Regardless, it’s probably near the bottom of the growing list of confusingly written rules interactions. Pardon me while I review the rule book & FAQ, big faq 2, my codex & faq, chapter approved & faq to find an answer to something. All the while some things aren’t even centrally located (like the clarity on taking relics outside your warlords faction, which is in the death guard faq).

I agree the rules are ambiguous at best, and at the end of the day it'll be down to how opponents and TO's decided to judge it. That's just the way I would rule it myself (and that's as someone who doesn't play that army, so it'd only be for opponents).

One of the main attractions to thousand sons besides the smite spam is having access to death hex.

Generally speaking a double thermal cannon Renegade Knight is just worse than a double gatling Knight. However when combining death hex with the double thermal cannon you can do some serious damage. Using the gaze of fate power you can reroll one of the d6's allowing you to get a good number of shots off.

Is this something or is it too cute?

 Barnie25 wrote:
One of the main attractions to thousand sons besides the smite spam is having access to death hex.

Generally speaking a double thermal cannon Renegade Knight is just worse than a double gatling Knight. However when combining death hex with the double thermal cannon you can do some serious damage. Using the gaze of fate power you can reroll one of the d6's allowing you to get a good number of shots off.

Is this something or is it too cute?

Maybe if you want to go lord of war hunting, but honestly it's too many hoops to jump through.

Yeah figured as much, haha.

Disagree, I think it's a solid tactic. I've used double thermal a few times, and death hex at 18" with +3 is pretty easy to achieve. Fill your boots, I say.

I have started a big post over at reddit with wall of text on my noobish thought on competitive Thousand Sons list. I hope you guys would like to check it out maybe even comment on something

https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/comments/9osfza/thousand_sons_competitive_2k_list_discussion/

Can unit advance during Warptime move?

 ArtyomTrityak wrote:
Can unit advance during Warptime move?

It can indeed sir!

Hey guys, quick questions for you. How many CPs do you generally start with in a 2000pts army?

While I'm working on my army and doing theorical army lists (nothing competitive, I go with units I like the look off mostly), I usually have the 3 base + 5 for a battalion, and I could squeeze another 1pt detachment in there depending on what I put in.

Opponent also usually have around 8-10 CPs, so would you say the Helm relic is a good choice to use (probably need to spend 1cp to get it in the first place)?

9 is roughly the standard for a more elite force that doesn't have good options for extremely cheap HQ's, assuming you're not souping in another faction that can provide those. Personally I'd say the Helm is worth investing one CP in, you're more or less guaranteed to at least get that back and you're quite likely to get additional value. I don't think it's quite as good as the Dark Matter Crystal, so don't put the Helm in your list and just remember to declare you're using the stratagem to pay for it unless there's a different relic you might want that game (against armies with a very high leadership statistic like Necrons the power sword can be quite strong, for example).

Unless I'm going for drop efficiency, I have 13cps in my Sons lists normally. There's no HQ tax for Thousand Sons - they're our best units.

Usually 9, though 13 is possible.

Normally 13 or 14 here, but i also normally ally in deamons to my tson army. Thankfully you dont need to with tsons though, cultists are great if you have that many guys to use and our hq's are top notch. Tzaangors are gold too. 2 squads of cultists of decent size and a good size tzaangor mob is easy and cheap to get.

So, i usually end up with around 9CP like others. I don't tend to go for cultist spam just for CP, though, i could if i wanted to.
My 1750 list for this weekends Blood And Glory is a battalion and a Vanguard. It's a pretty different list but something i've wanted to try for a while - though i did give in an buy some Tzaangors.

 grouchoben wrote:
Unless I'm going for drop efficiency, I have 13cps in my Sons lists normally. There's no HQ tax for Thousand Sons - they're our best units.

You're right that it's not a tax, since TS HQ's are all pretty excellent (hell, even the relatively "bad" Exalted Sorcerer is plenty playable). They're still quite expensive and getting Guard-like CP numbers is prohibitive unless you're literally just running the HQ's and cultists/tzaangors.

Ok so outside of souping a bit or doing some cultist spam, 8-9 CP seems to be the norm, good to know! I'll definitely try the Helm whenever I start to play with the army to see how it perform!

Just need to buy more models before that though!

On the Computer 40k Facebook page some people seem to think that you can't DMC and Warp time because DMC operates as reserves. But you can still move out of the deployment zone.

 Virules wrote:
On the Computer 40k Facebook page some people seem to think that you can't DMC and Warp time because DMC operates as reserves. But you can still move out of the deployment zone.

It’s confusing as hell right now, because of all the wording changes in all the different faqs.

Generally you can’t use warptime on units that arrive from reserve that turn, but, right now the confusion is around “do units that “leave and re-enter” the battlefield count as reserves?” Some faq sections and people say yes, others say no.

My current understanding is that you can use the DMC on turn one, but you can't use the DMC and warptime. Which means that the DMC both does and does not work like coming from reserves. It is all very confusing.

That's how I take it too Arachnofiend. My current list has a maximum Tzaangor blob and a max-unit Enilightened with spears blob - the flerd gets the DMC, the Enlightened get the warptime, both are odds-on for a 1st turn charge.