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What would make him happy? Note he wants me to play this
list against him so he can get a feel for it.

I believe this is a 2250 list.

Here's the sample list I made out on Army Builder

2250 Pts - Wood Elves Roster - Unnamed

Treeman Ancient (1#, 375 Pts)
1 Treeman Ancient @ 375 Pts
General; Causes Terror; Flammable; Large Target; Scaly Skin; Stubborn
1 A Cluster of Radiants @ [25] Pts
1 An Annoyance of Netlings @ [25] Pts
1 1. Tree Singing @ [0] Pts

Spellsinger (1#, 175 Pts)
1 Spellsinger @ 175 Pts
Level 2 Upgrade; Hand Weapon; Longbow
1 Calaingor's Stave @ [25] Pts
1 Dispel Scroll @ [25] Pts

Spellsinger (1#, 175 Pts)
1 Spellsinger @ 175 Pts
Level 2 Upgrade; Hand Weapon; Longbow
1 Dispel Scroll @ [25] Pts
1 Dispel Scroll @ [25] Pts

Noble (1#, 90 Pts)
1 Wood Elf Noble (Battle Standard Bearer) @ 90 Pts
Hand Weapon; Battle Standard Bearer

Dryads (8#, 96 Pts)
8 Dryads @ 96 Pts
Causes Fear; Skirmishers

Dryads (8#, 96 Pts)
8 Dryads @ 96 Pts
Causes Fear; Skirmishers

Glade Guard (10#, 126 Pts)
10 Glade Guard @ 126 Pts
Musician Mus; Hand Weapon; Longbow

Glade Guard (10#, 126 Pts)
10 Glade Guard @ 126 Pts
Musician Mus; Hand Weapon; Longbow

Glade Riders (5#, 129 Pts)
5 Glade Riders @ 129 Pts
Musician Mus; Longbow; Spear; Fast Cavalry
5 Elven Steed @ [0] Pts

Wardancers (7#, 126 Pts)
7 Wardancers @ 126 Pts
Immune to Psychology; Magic Resistance (1); Skirmishers

Wild Riders (5#, 148 Pts)
5 Wild Riders of Kurnous @ 148 Pts
Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Spear; Light Armour; Fast Cavalry; Magic Resistance (1)
5 Elven Steed @ [0] Pts

Dryads (8#, 96 Pts)
8 Dryads @ 96 Pts
Causes Fear; Skirmishers

Warhawk Riders (3#, 120 Pts)
3 Warhawk Riders @ 120 Pts
Longbow; Spear; Flyer
3 Warhawk @ [0] Pts

Squad (1#, 50 Pts)
1 Great Eagle @ 50 Pts
Flyer

Eternal Guard (25#, 318 Pts)
25 Eternal Guard @ 318 Pts
Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std

Total Roster Cost: 2246

Created with Army Builder
Copyright (c) 1997-2006 Lone Wolf Development, Inc. All rights reserved.

Ok first thing I see is:

You are missing the ORB OF bs IF YOU ARE IN THE WOODS. Don't forget to bring it.

You have alot of stuff, but there's no focus.

Is this a tree army? Or a elf army?

You do much better if you are one or the other.

Well firstly you need to get HoDA somewhere if this is supposed to be a nasty list (get it to bsb and buy him the 10pts magic bow so he can shoot it). Secondly the Eternal Guard work best if you have a durable noble/highborn in the unit to give them stubborn as long as possible. Naked bsb isn't really the best choice in this as he gets killed pretty easily if something remotely good charges the unit, but I suppose the eg can run around without nobles as you can hide the bsb in the wardancers unit. The latter would benefit from champ and musician, though.

Thanks for the help. I'll have to adjust the list.

The EG is in simply because I have the models

Stelek, what exactly are you recommending? A second
Treeman? I don't exactly have the model.

5 wild riders wont exactly do anything much.
Bump them up to 8 with warbanner or replace with more wardancers.

As for brutal list, i would suck it up and buy the extra treeman. If you don't have the model...o well, tamer list for u.

Cool. So Eternal Guard have no place in lists like this?

I'll give it a try with a regular Treeman and try to bump up
the Wild Riders.

I'm guessing you start them in 2 ranks and then widen them
up before a charge? (I haven't seen that many Wild Riders
on the table before)

Most people just start them in combat formation, taht way if a good charge presents itself you dont have to avoid it cause your in two ranks.
Being fast cav they have no problems manouvering around stuff.

Eternal guard can have a place. They are just unnecessary.
Better to replace with more killy units and let the two treemen handle holding people in place.

For two Treeman is HoDA a better option or the BSB?

malfred wrote:For two Treeman is HoDA a better option or the BSB?

That depends on what other characters you run. HoDA is best on a alter noble or lord (or any fast noble), but if your only bs6 model is the bsb, then he's the guy to have it. With 2 trees, the bsb often stays hidden in the back preferably in a wardancer unit providing the rerolls as long as possible so you don't necessarily have to equip him for melees/protection.

So I'm assuming it has to have Asyendil's Bane equipped
because a bsb loses all equipment.

Why doesn't the BSB have hail of doom arrow?

Agree with others in that the 2nd treeman is brutal, when in conjunction with the treeman ancient.

I'd drop the first spell singer and eternal guard to buy the recomended changes, spend 4 turns manuevering and shooting and then beat him to death in 5th and 6th turn from every direction.

Skirmish, points denial WEs with 2 treeman is one of the most frustrating lists to play against....

Oh he will have the hail of doom arrow.

You might not have the model, but you need it.

WE aren't that frustrating to play against if you don't play a normal fantasy army.

I crush 'em with my lizard army. Run skink shammy next to ancient, fireball him. DEAD. Next.

So anyway I don't see anyone talking about bringing a spellsinger on a unicorn with the deepwood sphere.

It's truly one of the most BS items in the game.

Go in the woods for any reason, and the unicorn shows up. Bam, everyone wholly OR partly eats a S5 hit.
Start of the wood elf magic phase, no dice rolling, no stopping it. Just death for free.

I highly recommend it.

Ha. I've used the deepwood sphere on him before, so he's
a bit leery about the woods. Besides, he knows woods are
a quagmire for him to begin with, why tempt me to Sphere
bomb him?

Of course, that doesn't help his pursuit moves...

Here's a looksee at what I'm packing in the bag tonight.

2250 Pts - Wood Elves Roster - Unnamed

Treeman Ancient (1#, 375 Pts)
1 Treeman Ancient @ 375 Pts
General; Causes Terror; Flammable; Large Target; Scaly Skin; Stubborn
1 A Cluster of Radiants @ [25] Pts
1 An Annoyance of Netlings @ [25] Pts
1 1. Tree Singing @ [0] Pts

Noble (1#, 130 Pts)
1 Wood Elf Noble (Battle Standard Bearer) @ 130 Pts
Hand Weapon; Battle Standard Bearer
1 Asyendi's Bane @ [10] Pts
1 Hail of Doom Arrow @ [30] Pts

Spellsinger (1#, 175 Pts)
1 Spellsinger @ 175 Pts
Level 2 Upgrade; Hand Weapon; Longbow
1 Calaingor's Stave @ [25] Pts
1 Dispel Scroll @ [25] Pts

Spellsinger (1#, 175 Pts)
1 Spellsinger @ 175 Pts
Level 2 Upgrade; Hand Weapon; Longbow
1 Dispel Scroll @ [25] Pts
1 Dispel Scroll @ [25] Pts

Dryads (8#, 96 Pts)
8 Dryads @ 96 Pts
Causes Fear; Skirmishers

Dryads (8#, 96 Pts)
8 Dryads @ 96 Pts
Causes Fear; Skirmishers

Dryads (8#, 96 Pts)
8 Dryads @ 96 Pts
Causes Fear; Skirmishers

Glade Guard (10#, 126 Pts)
10 Glade Guard @ 126 Pts
Musician Mus; Hand Weapon; Longbow

Glade Guard (10#, 126 Pts)
10 Glade Guard @ 126 Pts
Musician Mus; Hand Weapon; Longbow

Glade Riders (5#, 129 Pts)
5 Glade Riders @ 129 Pts
Musician Mus; Longbow; Spear; Fast Cavalry
5 Elven Steed @ [0] Pts

Wardancers (10#, 187 Pts)
10 Wardancers @ 187 Pts
Musician Mus; Immune to Psychology; Magic Resistance (1); Skirmishers

Wild Riders (8#, 251 Pts)
8 Wild Riders of Kurnous @ 251 Pts
Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Spear; Light Armour; Fast Cavalry; Magic Resistance (1)
1 War Banner @ [25] Pts
8 Elven Steed @ [0] Pts

Treeman (1#, 285 Pts)
1 Treeman @ 285 Pts
Causes Terror; Flammable; Large Target; Scaly Skin; Stubborn

Total Roster Cost: 2247

Created with Army Builder
Copyright (c) 1997-2006 Lone Wolf Development, Inc. All rights reserved.


He's trying to get geared up for Adepticon, and he
wanted to try his Empire list (no clue what it is) against
some Treemen.

malfred wrote:Ha. I've used the deepwood sphere on him before, so he's
a bit leery about the woods. Besides, he knows woods are
a quagmire for him to begin with, why tempt me to Sphere
bomb him?

Of course, that doesn't help his pursuit moves...

Well actually, if you put a unit that ignores woods (dryads, etc) on his side of it; and bait him to charge you and you flee...you can bait him INTO the woods.

Any ranked unit has a hell of a time getting out of a woods, so you sit the singer next to said unit in the woods and fry 'em.

All you have to do is make it so he's gotta charge at you or risk you doing bad things to his army.

Not very difficult to do really.

Stelek wrote:
I crush 'em with my lizard army. Run skink shammy next to ancient, fireball him. DEAD. Next.

Erm, huh? You realise trees are t6 and have 3+ armor. I'd say pretty much every other unit in the wood elf army is a better target for magic missiles.

Except that the treeman is flammable and takes double wounds.

Agree on the unlikihood of a fireball wounding a treeman, let alone killing him.
Conflagaration of doom, cast by SMP with banehead, now thats a different prospect.
Each wound doubled for banehead, then doubled again for flammable, 4 wounds from one... gold.
COmbo works a treat vs tomb kings/princes as well.

Waaagh_Gonads wrote:Except that the treeman is flammable and takes double wounds.

Agree on the unlikihood of a fireball wounding a treeman, let alone killing him.
Conflagaration of doom, cast by SMP with banehead, now thats a different prospect.
Each wound doubled for banehead, then doubled again for flammable, 4 wounds from one... gold.
COmbo works a treat vs tomb kings/princes as well.

Well, all is good except that even the conflagration is still str4, altough if one is lucky one can kill pretty much everything with that spell (except those pesky high elves in their dragon armors).
Bane head with Rune of Burning Iron or Spirit of The Forge on the other hand (str 5 and no armor save + 4 wounds per hit)...