Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Ok... Need some help with my guard army i am building. Built I have a Leman Russ Demolisher, Command Squad, and 2 platoons one with command and two 10 mans with Autocannons, the other with command and a 10 man with autocannon and another 10 man with a ML. Waiting in the wings to be build is a regular Leman Russ, and another box of guardsmen. My biggest trouble is with doctrines. I know I want sharpshooters, Iron discipline, and veterans. For the 4th I am torn between carapace armor or cameleoline. As far as a 5th goes I am not sure what will compliment me the best. My eventual goal is another regular Leman Russ, and lotsa heavy weapons teams with my commander (looking to do 2x3 Autocannons, and 2x3 Lascannons). The box of guardsmen I have waiting to be built i was going to turn into 2 squads of vets, which I was planning on going all melta's and shotguns for a nice punch. In the regular squads I went all grenade launchers as my weapons upgrades. I am planning on this army ending up around 2k-2500 or so, and a rough estimate of what I own now puts me around 1500. All suggestions welcome, thanks guys.
Aztral

If you want lotsa infantry go with cameleoline because guardsmen should always be in cover while carapace armour will just waste points than can buy more guardsmen.
Hoped that helped
-skavenfreak

That is what I was starting to believe myself, just like having outside opinions to help me, very appreciated.

sharpshooters,: This is a waste of points
Iron discipline, : This can work but usually you'll be hugging the table edge so you'll end up running off the board anyways before you get a chance to use it. However for only 5 points, it may not be too bad.
veterans. : Always a good choice. Vets are the most efficient unit in the army.
carapace armor : Horrible waste of points
cameleoline.: Another waste of points. Not as bad as carapace but still bad.

well Alex any advice on what other doctrines may be useful? some units I may want to consider?

heavy wpn platoons are great. So are conscripts cause they are so cheap. Remember that your guard a meant to be cheap so keep them that way. GK allies are always good. Give you commander a banner guy and make him an HSo so your guys will all be LD10 with re-rolls. The DS ing vets are awsome!!. Keep em cheap never spend more than 75 points maybe 85.

An armored fist squad or two are not bad. Hellhounds are ok, but Im currently torn between 2 hellhounds or 10 hvy bolters, THey are about the same price. Be cautions with vehicle though. We do not have flashy rules like other armies our probably pop the easiest. One shot kills a lot of your points. If youare a tank heavy player and you lose you tanks you usually lose the game. Remember to have some diversity in your list. Sacrificial units are a stupid idea. Why would you pay points just to have some one die. This only pays off in fantasy due to the reason that one can redirect and or flee from a charge. Sacrificing a unit just means you enemy is now 6" closer + a consolidation roll which is bad. Close order drill is good cause its free. Also drop troops is almost a must. Keep your troops cheap and forget the wargear. Why protect people that suck. They are just gonna die anyways.
SEntinels suck, don't get em. Ogryn suck.

Rough riders are good. and they move which guard need.
Storm troopers suck. Vets are SOOO much better.
DS ing special weapon squads with demo charges is also good.

Heavy Weapons platoons are too expensive for what you get. Better to take Russen or Bassies.

And am I to Assume that due to their crappy BS I shouldn't even bother giving conscripts any weapon upgrade at all? And yeah I was thinking about Close Order Drill for just the reason you mentioned. Hellhounds are something I have been debating due to having 2 Nid players in my gaming group, they would be handy for the Apoc games we play. I agree with you about sentinals... not really a fan of spending 90$ for a squadron of 3 models that will explode if you look at them wrong, only use I could ever see for them is to tote Lascannons and tank hunt, but thats a steep investment when I can easily give HW platoons lascannons. Now how have you found vets to be effective? I refuse to give guardsmen Plasmaguns... I roll too many 1's when I use em and with a 5+ save I see that as a real points waste. I was kinda thinking of going with 3 melta's and shotties for the rest... yeah its only 12", but they would serve a nice purpose to either pop vehicle that got too close, or to unleash plenty of shots at an enemy that got too close.

Aztralwolf wrote:And am I to Assume that due to their crappy BS I shouldn't even bother giving conscripts any weapon upgrade at all?

Flamers, who needs Ballistic Skill.

What I like to run in my army doctrine wise is this: I ALWAYS take Iron Discipline, Close Order Drill, then the other 3 are for whatever flavor I want. Veterans are nice for a cheap sub 100pt unit to take out heavy infantry and light to medium vehicles plus they hit on 3's instead of 4's. Special Weapon Squads in conjunction with drop troops are very mean when facing mean vehicles or heavy infantry. They are also cheap sub 100pt units, and can take a demo charge which at only 6 inch range it is hit or miss, but when it hits, boy does it hit! Combined with the demo charge you can take meltas or flamers I think GL's too, so points wise they are very efficient for getting their cost back and then some.

A lot of IG players will tell you to kit out your regular infantry squads for anti tank as they have the ablative wounds to keep their special weapons and heavies up if they come under fire.

also, sharpshooters is nice if you run a large amount of Heavy bolters, maybe autocannons, but that is stretching it.

currently I play 2 russes, 50 conscripts, and 2 infantry squads with a mechanized hardened veterans squad for mobility at 1500 points. It's a lot of fun but a large amount of models.

A couple more questions.... firstly with close order drill would it still count if I charged into assault ending with all models in base to base? Also what are all of your opinions on grenade launchers? I like the idea of them being as they are rather unique to IG, rather reliable wounding, with no chance of nuking the wielder like with a PG, and still maintain a decent range. I know PG's are good for killing MEQ but that is why I plan on 2 LR's and one LR Demolisher. I figure on my Lascannon HW guys for popping the heavy armor and my Autocannons for popping lighter vehicles and putting wounds on infantry. As to the use of conscripts.... I am not against their use as I see just how darn cheap they are, but in what ways do you implement them? Line 'em up and march hoping enough get into range for shots, or as a target prio shield for your more valuable units? Sorry to keep noobing it up, I just dont wanna put money into useless models... I am quite confident in my Marine and Eldar building skills but guard feel like they take a little bit more thought.
Aztral

Yes but only base infantry platoons and conscript platoons can take CoD. GL's are okay but I haven't had much luck with them, its either 24" str 6 ap 4 assault 1 OR 24" str 3 ap 6 blast. Unless you have a lot, maybe 6-8 they won't be much of use, PLUS they are quite expensive for what they do. The reason for taking HW's in the troop infantry platoons is the extra 7-8 ablative wounds that can be removed before an assault weapon trooper or the HW team is effected. HW platoons as a HS choice have 2 wounds per base, infantry platoon HW's have 7-8 ablative wounds before they are effected. Conscripts are pretty tricky to get used to. Unless you can place your officers close enough they will run very easily with their LD of 5. I use them basically as a meat shield to protect the meat and potatoes of my army.

Hope that helps, and the only stupid or newb question is the one you don't ask

Yeah thats why I plan on putting about 4 squads per platoons half with AC and half with LC... but I will have the fire support and anti tank squads added onto my HQ... Kinda hoping the whole 3 LR's threatening with their long range anti MEQ will draw enough fire away from all my squishy guardsmen. I just get worried sometimes that many of my games will be decided by turn 2 or 3's end. Either I will have flattened everything with withering HW's, or they will have plowed into my ranks with lotsa assault. So far my experience against other shooty armies with the 1k points or so I have built has been good though, havent run against any assaulty armies yet though...

Doctrines:

Rough Rider Squads, Drop Troops, Light Infantry, Veterans, Iron Discipline.

Listen to MinMax. He knows what time it is. Also, he's a great Guard player.

OK Minmax... how do you implement the roughriders? As a charging diversion, as a counter charge to protect your infantry once the baddies get close? And I assume you give them the hunting lances? And have you any advice on the weapon upgrades for various squads? I really wanna get as many various opinions as I can to piece together things.

On the Rough-Riders, I've been able to pull off using them to charge, but that relies heavily on using difficult terrain (which, remember, does not affect fleet movement) to protect them. T3, 5+ save is too fragile for a really dedicated assault unit. Counter-charge is usually much easier to set up. Hunting Lances are a must.

Weapons should always be purchased to be complimentary to each other. Flamers dont' go well with Lascannons, but Grenade Launchers usually go well with everything, although lack the punch of Melta/Plasma guns.

Experiment with various weapons, see what you like.

Yeah, last night I ran a 1000 pt game against my good buddies WH. I ended up giving up no VP's and ended up with about 1100 VP's myself from securing the center of the table. Put 2 Russies on the board, and 2 platoons of men with GL's and AC's. It was a good learning experience for me. My most triumphant moment was killing his cannoness is CC with regular guardsmen after putting 2 wounds on her with a hail of lasgun rapid fire lol. But despite an overwhelming victory I learned that I need my vets built ASAP. Some infiltrating melta guns would have been nice to deal with his pesky organ tank... i forget the name of it, the str8 ap1 H d6 tank. And I know luck saved me against that cannoness if she hadnt rolled so badly on armor saves she coulda put a hurting on me, those rough riders will be nice. So would you have any advice about conversions? 10$ per model for a model I dont even like the look of is a bit much. My buddy thinks I should try to convert Dark Elf Cold Ones cause guard on raptors would look cool.