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Made in us
Sslimey Sslyth




My local gaming store group has decided to branch out into Fantasy from predominantly 40K gaming. I originally started with Fantasy back about 1988 when I was in high school. The only Frantasy army I have ever really run are Dwarves, though I haven't played at all in several years (since long before the current army book).

Well, by the time I found out about this, three other players have already started Dwarf armies, so I don't want to be a fourth. After reading through several of the books, the Vampire Counts book kind of appealed to me; it seems like it will play totally differently from my Dwarves, and that would be a fun change.

We're starting at 1000 point armies, and I am not sure of where to even begin. VC seems to be very character dependent, but you can't go too character heavy at this point level and leave yourself with no models on the board. One thing I like about the VC list is that I actually kind of like every unit; though I'm sure some are better than others as in all army books.

Anyway, I was interested in seeing what might be a good start for 1000 points in VC. Of course, I want it to be competitive, but I also enjoy finding ways to make atypical builds work, too.
   
Made in us
Phanobi





Paso Robles, CA, USA

So you'll be playing a lot of dwarves and you need a good start. One thing I've found is that the magical defense of dwarves at 1,000 points isn't significantly different from the magical defense of dwarves at 2,000 points. What this means is that if you take a magic heavy list you will struggle to get any spells off and your plan will fall apart. So to win you need to beat the dwarves at their own game, which isn't easy. I'd load up on Zombies and Ghouls and a unit of Grave Guard. The zombies to tie up the really hard dwarf units like longbeards and slayers and ghouls/grave guard to beat down the other dwarf units. Take a varghulf and some bat swarms to kill his warmachines and then take 2 combat oriented Vamps and put them in the Ghouls and Grave Guard and point them at the units you can reliably kill while the zombies hold up the other units until the hard hitters can join in a turn or two.

The good news is that this force will probably work pretty well against any other army as well. I'm at work and don't have my Army Book but I'll see if I can make a 1,000 point list later.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings.
Look on My works, Ye Mighty, and despair.

Chris Gohlinghorst wrote:Holy Space Marine on a Stick.

This conversation has even begun to boggle my internet-hardened mind.

A More Wretched Hive of Scum and Villainy 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




I'm new to the counts as well. Wouldn't spirit hosts be better to take on warmachines? Especially, oh say, organ guns? My experience with dwarfs is, anything that goes after organ guns gets blasted to bits before they can do much (unless the dwarf player rolls 2s or misfires!). Spirit hosts can't be shot up that way, or am I missing something big?
   
Made in us
Sslimey Sslyth




I like spirit hosts for that task, too, but in a 1000 point list, the cost for the hosts gets pretty expensive. I'd almost rather rely on getting the spell that creates spirit hosts and take another unit, like bats or bat swarms, on the assumption that I won't roll that spell or reliably get it off.

Also, while there does appear that there are three dwarf players, there are already 10 of us getting into this. There might be one other VC player, a Bret, an Empire, a High Elf, a Wood Elf, a Beasts of Chaos and Chaos Mortals group that I know of. I'm sure by the time we're done, we'll have almost every army book represented; there's one guy new to the group who is going to resurrect his slann and another one considering skaven.
   
Made in us
Incorporating Wet-Blending





Houston, TX

Maybe try a fighty vamp with a mounted wight king BSB w/regen banner in a unit of GG as the center of the army? Should be hitty and resilient and not a whole lot else for them to go after. It's tough for VC at low points, though, as the characters take up alot of points (no more cheap necros for smaller games).

-James
 
   
Made in us
Sslimey Sslyth




Actually, that was the same thought that I had.

It seems that VC are incredibly character dependent, and those characters can be quite expensive. I have a feeling that VC will struggle at the lower points levels, which was why I was looking for input from others.

One thing I worry about is that the regular troops for VC stink so bad that you have to be able to reliably get some Invocations off to replenish the ever-dwindling supply. Can this be done at this level?
   
Made in us
Phanobi





Paso Robles, CA, USA

If you want to go magic heavy, take 2 Vamps with the Master of Black Arts (+2 power dice) and give one the Black Periapt and Book of Arkhan. That gives you 8 power dice at 1,000 points which lets you spam IoN and then cast Vanhels with the book. Or you can use the book to draw out dispel dice early to cast IoN.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings.
Look on My works, Ye Mighty, and despair.

Chris Gohlinghorst wrote:Holy Space Marine on a Stick.

This conversation has even begun to boggle my internet-hardened mind.

A More Wretched Hive of Scum and Villainy 
   
Made in us
Sslimey Sslyth




That was kind of the direction I planned on going when we expand to 2000-2250 points. At that level, I plan on having lots of casting dice and 3-4 bound spell items; the idea being to just spam out enough castings to drain dispel dice and scrolls early. I just wasn't sure about how to implement that plan at lower points values.

Eight casting dice at 1000 points does seem pretty strong.

Second question.

I know march blocking, working flanks, and getting to war machines are all pretty important. At 1000 points, are doggies or bats preferrable for this task? Doggies are a bit cheaper by the unit, but don't fly.
   
Made in us
Charging Bull




Rochester, New York

Bats!! Flyers are so good for all of those things, the doggies will just die because they can't stay out of everyone's front arc like flyers can.

"But remember that there are over 1000 chapters of spase marienz! So the SM codex has to cover over 1000 different kinds of spase marienz! Codex CSM only has to cover 1 kind (the Chaos kind). And I don't even think Eldar are a kind of spase marienz at all. Hurr!"
- Abadabadoobaddon

Albatross wrote:I don't game in GW stores very often, but I must say that last time I did, most of the kids were much more pleasant and less annoying than some of the smelly, socially slowed ADULTS who frequent the stores.
It's a company which specialises in the selling of plastic representations of Elves, Goblins, and 9 foot tall superhuman soldiers from the future - have you ever considered that, as adults, it is US that is intruding upon THEIR world?
 
   
 
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