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I have a habit of building rather strange lists - and even having success with them. 10 games with Eldar and a tax refund have me convinced to GO GUARD now.

So - before you nay sayers say nay - read the list.

My general idea is

Demolishers - (having faced demolishers) is that they are GREAT and very versatile. Anti troop, anti tank, anti everything. Two Demolishers for heavy support.

I am not a big fan of Stalinist Russia - so no commisars However - read on.

No doctrines - just normal guard HOWEVER taking a LD 9 senior officer and a master vox so all the squads can use his leadership - over the whole battle field - WOW.

Marines (and terminators especially) are just - I hate em. Sometimes you just gotta assault. Read on. Read the guard tactics section on Tau Online dot org. I have assaulted with DA and even Guardians using Eldar - it can work (sorta) with Guard.

Hordes - I think this list can handle orks and nids too. You be the judge.

5th Edition - rumor is only troops count as scoring units. You so have to have lots of troops choices.


Cadianesque Imperial Guard

HEADQUARTERS - Command Platoon 251 points

141 point command Squad Heroic Senior office with refractor field and bolter, guardsman master vox, veteran medic with bolter, veteran standard bearer with bolter, guardsman with grenade launcher. Lots of close in rapid fire and a small amount of long range kill infantry fire.

110 point A.T squad with 3 lascannons. This unit is Anti-armor and Anti- big nasty



TROOPS - 4 choices 864 points

Infantry Platoon 263
50 point command squad with Junior officer with 4 guardsmen with vox and heavy bolter
86 point squad with vox, flamer and missle launcher
86 point squad with vox, flamer and missle launcher
41 point 5 guardsman remnant with vox and flamer

Infantry Platoon 269
50 point command squad with J.O. with 4 guardsmen with vox and heavy bolter
86 point squad with vox, flamer, and missle launcher
86 point squad with vox, flamer, and missle launcher
47 point 6 guardsman remnant with vox and flamer



Armoured Fist Squad 166
with vox, flamer, in a Chimera with extra armor, turret mounted heavy bolter, and hull mounted heavy bolter

Armored Fist Squad 166
with vox, flamer, in a Chimera with extra armor, turret mounted heavy bolter, and hull mounted heavy bolter


Heavy Support 380

190 Demolisher with namesake cannon, hull mounted lascannon, two pairs of sponson mounted heavy bolters and extra armor
190 Demolisher with namesake cannon, hull mounted lascannon, two pairs of sponson mounted heavy bolters and extra armor

I dont see why you would want to rule out free docks that can have a greater in pact on your list then you think.

I love heavy bolters but for the chim, multi laser does the trick that the guard lack. Same amount of shoots with a better str for cracking that 10 armour you see on the board.

I know what you're feeling because I'm a recent Guard-from-Marines convert myself. Just reading through your list there are a lot of improvements that I can immediately see, some big, some minor. I'll point out the two biggest that stand out to me:

Your senior command squad spends a lot of points on wargear that it shouldn't, ever, need to use. The refractor field etc. are items that are absolutely great fluff-wise and I wish were more effective, but the sad point is if your command squad is getting shot at or punched at then it's as good as dead anyways *regardless* of whether each guy has a 50-point loadout or not. Treat your commanders like basilisks; hide them behind terrain and never let the enemy see them. Master Vox is okay, company standard is good for 5 points, everything else is fuggedaboudit.

Mixing special/heavy weapons: a flamer and a missile launcher complement each other in 0 ways. They are mutually exclusive weapons: to use the one, you're not using the other (except the sole miraculous exception of an enemy that stops 7" away from assault). You'll be much better off putting like with like: plasma guns and auto/lascannons (missiles for MEQ) and special weapon squads toting flamers and demo charges.

This isn't pure Theoryhammer on my part, I've tried a couple different configs against both horde and MEQ armies and like-with-like-loadouts work far more consistently than like-with-unlike.

Ultimately what works for you will be what is fun for you, though, so play around however you want.

Agree with what's been said so far and add:

Drop lascannons from the tanks. They only hit half the time and don't mix with the heavy bolters.

Add front hb and maybe a heavy stubber too. So if you lose the demolisher or don't have a good shot you can put a withering 9 HB shots and 3 stubber rounds all at 36".

Take the free drop troop and close order doctrines. Why not? Drop your 5 man remnant squads.

drop the flamers and upgrade missile launchers to las cannons.

i dont like to use the doctrines either. its going to make the transition to 5th easier and i just dont like to use em.
you kids and your doctrines, back in my day we just had a pointy stick and a bucket helmet and we liked it!
now get off my lawn!

I'll ditto the lack of doctrines - they'll disappear in 5th edition. This looks like a pretty fun and flexible army.

I just thought I'd mention that the complement of something is usually not something that overlaps. I believe you're suggesting weapon configurations that synergize rather than complement. I've found that complementary configurations do work when the entire army is composed of complementary configurations, and they don't work when you have specialists with synergistic configurations because those units will be best used complementing the specialists rather than assisting them. The advantage to fielding an army of generalists is that getting your specialists knocked out of the fight doesn't give your opponent a free hand.

My one suggestion would be replacing the AT squad with some Lascannon-armed Sentinels to toughen up your AT firepower.

make the command squad way cheaper, make the tanks have three HB's and drop the flamers from the infantry squads for things like plasma. to get the points to do this drop the HB's from your command squads, and all the points you'd save on your HQ squad

You have to assault sometimes - the flamers stay in since they are basically the best assault infantry weapon available to Guardsmen. I keep seeing players that want to sit back and shoot ALL the time - assault has it's place - even with Guard.

I dropped the two remnanats plus the heavy bolters in the two foot slogging platoons, also the hdqs is 52 points cheaper since dropping the Veteran Standard bearer and his iffy bolter, the medic bolter, grenade launcher. refractor field etc.

I am not sure about dropping the hull mounted lascannon - if I don't move can I fire BOTH heavy weapons? Or am I limited to firing one heavy weapons no matter what?

I am not sure how sentinels with las cannons are better than the AT squad. My experience with eldar walkers no matter how armed is....meh.

Anyway - this gives me 159 points to play with! Thinking about 5th - Cameloline looks REALLY good on my hdqs, and the foot slogging platoons since cover save would be 3+! Not that I can make a 3+ save . I can make 5+ saves all day long....but not 3+....go figure. A couple of doctrines (close order drill, and drop troops) are free as pointed out........it IS a thought.

Who said doctrines won't make it to 5th?

So here are my thoughts

HEADQUARTERS Command Platoon 215 points

105 point command Squad Heroic Senior officer, guardsman master vox, veteran medic

110 point A.T squad with 3 lascannons. This unit is Anti-armor and Anti- big nasty

TROOPS - 4 choices

Infantry Platoon 212
50 point command squad with Junior officer with 4 guardsmen with vox
86 point squad with vox, flamer and missle launcher - flamer for assault, missle launcher for more AT or T8 or just your regular MEQ or TEQ
86 point squad with vox, flamer and missle launcher

Infantry Platoon 212
50 point command squad with J.O. with 4 guardsmen with vox
86 point squad with vox, flamer, and missle launcher
86 point squad with vox, flamer, and missle launcher

Armoured Fist Squad 166
with vox, flamer, in a Chimera with extra armor, turret mounted heavy bolter, and hull mounted heavy bolter. The flamer is for assault. I got lots of heavy bolters that are mobile.

Armored Fist Squad 166
with vox, flamer, in a Chimera with extra armor, turret mounted heavy bolter, and hull mounted heavy bolter

Heavy Support - lascannons open for debate.......

190 Demolisher with namesake cannon, hull mounted lascannon, two pairs of sponson mounted heavy bolters and extra armor
190 Demolisher with namesake cannon, hull mounted lascannon, two pairs of sponson mounted heavy bolters and extra armor

I keep studying, and keep thinking that some special weapons in those command squads would certainly prove useful. That eats up around 40 of my "spare" points.

However, if I do drop the lascannons from Lehman Russ Demolishers....that gets me back up there.

I do see now that Demolisher is ordnance, and I will be sitting still or not moving much to use it.

Not sure what to use the 150 points for....Sentinels? I like indirect fire weapons, and honestly, mortars are not as bad as some appear to think (saw them used two games, they worked well for 80 points). You don't actually have to ahve line of sight if you have a guess range weapon, right? In 5th, supposedly you scatter more without LOS, less if you have it.

If I get two battalion boxes (yes, I try to be economical, and I mean look at how successful McNamara and Rumsfeld were as economical defense secretaries..... ). The change in 5th to "you can't move and shoot defensive weapons over S4) makes me question Chimera and mobile assault forces. So I buy some more guard I guess. Run rule in 5th may help.

3 troops choices but lots of actual troop squads, solid assault (pretty much as solid as guard gets). Blast weapons get better in 5th edition supposedly. I am using everything that comes in the two battallion boxes I will buy. My additional buy isn't that much - two more guard boxes, enought to get 4 hdqs - perhaps another guard box for conversion OR buy 4 hdqs. I lean toward more guard.

I did add grenades since at last I will strike simultanously now if assaulting someone in cover - as well as if I am in cover. I think this changes in 5th to still be advantageous to grenade throwers. I think cameloline will be worth it in 5th, since all cover saves supposedly go to 4+. So doctrines are in.

Anyway....here we go.....


Doctrines are - Drop Troops (free, why not), Iron discipline (yes, it appears to work with vox and master vox as well as within 12 inches), and Cameleoline. That means 3 plus cover saves in 5th edition for everyone except the heavy weapons squads in the hdqs. Is it worth it? It costs me 100 points. Without it, I have 109 points to play with.

1491 points

HEADQUARTERS Command Platoon 305 points

120 point command Squad Heroic Senior officer Iron Discipline, guardsman master vox. Cameleoline. I got LD 9 across the board as long as he lives. Ld 8 MOST of the time if he doesn't.

115 point A.T squad with 3 lascannons. This unit is Anti-armor and Anti- big nasty

80 3 Mortars - they get better in 5th I do believe.

TROOPS - 3 choices - important in 5th to have more troops. I have a lot of stuff that would qualify as troop, and we calculate below 50% and below 25% by squad, not platoon, so this list should have the "more troop" thing covered.

Infantry Platoon 272
60 point command squad with Junior officer with 4 guardsmen with vox, cameloline
106 point squad with grenades, vox, flamer and missle launcher and cameloline - flamer for assault, missle launcher for more AT or T8 or just your regular MEQ or TEQ
106 point squad with grenades, vox, flamer and missle launcher and cameloline

Infantry Platoon 272 - ditto

Infantry Platoon 272 - ditto

Heavy Support -

180 Demolisher with namesake cannon, hull mounted heavy bolter, two pairs of sponson mounted heavy bolters
180 Demolisher with namesake cannon, hull mounted heavy bolter, two pairs of sponson mounted heavy bolters


Two demolisher shots per turn (we hope) that are AT or a-infantry; if something goes wrong each one has 6 heavy bolters - that is 18 shots I believe? Or are they twin linked? I cannot move and shoot them in 5th.

I have 3 lascannons and 6 rocket launchers for AT for additional AT or anti nasty stuff. The lascannons may live two turns - at least they will attract some enemy attention. The mortars don't seem as bad as many say now; in 5th supposedly it is large blast template with better for the shooter scatter.

Let's think about those rocket launchers - I can shoot either frag or krak I do believe....and blast template is supposedly LARGE and the way scatter works is more favorable AND I don't guess with them. They might be better now?

In 4th Edition, you scatter less with LOS than without.

Nope, you sure can't move and shoot them in 5th Edition. You can fire ONE of them if you move, in 5th Edition, because their Strength is greater than 4... Again, this is correct for 4th, and NOT for 5th...

Also, Battleforce boxes come with Leman Russ Battle Tanks, not Demolishers...

And these "In 5th Edition, mortars are great!" comments have no bearing in reality.

MinMax wrote:In 4th Edition, you scatter less with LOS than without.

Nope, you sure can't move and shoot them in 5th Edition. You can fire ONE of them if you move, in 5th Edition, because their Strength is greater than 4... Again, this is correct for 4th, and NOT for 5th...

Also, Battleforce boxes come with Leman Russ Battle Tanks, not Demolishers...

And these "In 5th Edition, mortars are great!" comments have no bearing in reality.

See corrections. Yes I know in 4th you scatter less with LOS, however the large template (supposedly) plus the modify scatter by subtracting ballistic skill appears to dramatically increase effectiveness of blast template weapons (compensating for the everything now scatters some in 5th). It is certainly a dramatic boost to all weapons.

I have found that people either love mortars - or hate them. Truthfully, usually neither viewpoint is founded on "reality" - unless the people who hate them have incredibly poor spatial skills or are literally blind in one eye (there are a few out there).

Regarding the battle tanks - dude I can make a stub barrel I have some basic modeling skills.

Your command squad is WAAAAY too expensive. You could take vets or somthing else. I always thought VOX casters were garbage and a waste of points. WHY dont you just keep them next to your officers. If your guard are going to be marching across the field then why do some of the squads have hvy wpns. Demolishers suck. It only takes one shot and there goes 150+ points. I just played a demolisher for the first time in a year and a half and I remembered why I stopped taking tanks. DSing termiies rended the thing and it was gone. It killed like 4 marines. WOW what a waste of points. 6% of the time they scatter into nowhere. The rest of the time they will be unable to shoot due to range, or LOS or being stunned/shaken.

the demolisher is fine, but take only one and then add in two regular russ'. then definitely drop those stupid extras off of the command squad and buy something useful with them, like upgrading the flamers to plasma. you never really want to charge with guard, so just keep to shooting, or the flamer is a waste. buy plasma, get three russ' maybe one demolisher, and make the command less expensive. finally get rid of the mortars they are garbage and always will be