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One simple question:

Does anyone know if there are plans to do an interim list in WD for Beasts of Chaos, similar to the recent mortals list? Have there been any rumors to that effect? I can't find anything like that with a simple search, so I'm asking all those who keep an eye on WHFB matters. Anyone? Beuler?

I asked this a couple times on the WD Mortals list rumor thread, but it got lost in the OT wanderings about Privateer Press, Flames of War and game support.

The one thing I've heard about BoC at all is that if a mortals general takes some little trinket then beasts are available as special like now. Also, that the generic "chaos brutes" special troop have minotaurs as one of their upgrades.

I too wonder what the future holds for the beasties.

- Salvage

The one thing I've heard about BoC at all is that if a mortals general takes some little trinket then beasts are available as special like now. Also, that the generic "chaos brutes" special troop have minotaurs as one of their upgrades.

Jeff Hall says this is false (see the Hordes rumors thread); there is no way to get beasts or daemons into the Hordes list anymore.

I haven't had a chance to see the new demon book. I started a beastman army about 2-3 years back and got about 1000 pts done, i was hoping to get back into it as my next project with some of the new demon stuff for allies or whatever... is that gonna be possible at all? Or does the new demon book say you can only have demons and that's all?

I was going for a tzeentch theme since I'm using kroot models for the beasts, so I was hoping to add a bunch of screamers, horrors and more.

So will the beasts list be compatible with the new demons at all? or should I save my $22 and not even bother getting the book if I'm not gonna make an all demon army? I don't want a demon army with beats tagging along, more like the other way around.

Janthkin wrote:Jeff Hall says this is false (see the Hordes rumors thread); there is no way to get beasts or daemons into the Hordes list anymore.

So JHall is who I thought he was. I also note how I stopped reading that thread when it went so off track :S

- Salvage

So will the beasts list be compatible with the new demons at all? or should I save my $22 and not even bother getting the book if I'm not gonna make an all demon army? I don't want a demon army with beats tagging along, more like the other way around.

Beasts, Daemons, and Mortals have had a tiff, and aren't seeing each other right now, or for the forseeable future (gossip suggests that the Shaggoth caught the Keeper of Secrets in bed with the Hellcannon; angry words were exchanged).

There is no cross-book compatibility, starting with the new Daemons book (and the Hordes update in WD).

So I guess I just wasted a buncha time converting 8 kroots to ride cold ones to count as marauder horsemen?

SHINANIGANS!!!!!

And the 5 screemers I primed and never painted don't need to be painted now?

Well worst case I can count the mounted ones as centigors I guess...

In a way I can see where they're going with it though and it will be less confusing when folks start having to open up a bunch of different books to build an army. Guess the make-things-easier-for-tournaments gremlin has struck again.

Betcha they do the same thing in 20 years when they finally get to the new Inquisition codex.

But hey at least I can save my $22 for now...

So it looks like no one has heard anything about a BoC update, then. Perhpas they'll space it out from the HoC update by a few months, should they choose to do one. It does seem inevitable if they are separating all the lists. Must say I'm a bit pissed about that, as daemons, mortals and beasts only being available on their own is a crappy move from so many angles: cynical marketing move, conflicts with fluff, and just plain isn't as much fun.

Hopefully it's temporary, to be rectified as soon as they figure out how to make them all play nice together (ie design and playtest the HoC and BoC codices, while considering how to interface the three). It does make some sense that daemons could be included in a HoC list (once GW write the main HoC book and figure out how to integrate), but mortals appearing in all-daemon armies will be uncommon/impossible.

However, scanning the recent WD article about daemons and finding the bit about the about the separation, I read with worry the words "...well, you could in Legendary Battles..."

Regardless, it looks like we will have a few months to enjoy BoC unmolested, and use our mortals in our BoC armies. Cross-over conversions are definitely getting the kibosh untill I see what shakes out with any possible updates in the next year, though.

In reading the demon article in white dwarf it seems clear that the design philosophy is very firmly aimed at keeping them seperate from now on (which means for the next six year cycle, then when the next revision comes along its up to the new design team).

I think it sucks as I have a very integrated army with beastmen being my smallest portion, most converted and best painted. Now I could like this change, even love it, if I felt they tried to make each army fresh and dynamic. The new demons lack cavalry, chariots and the pull to make seperate power armies, all things we had before. In splitting them up, we have less twice over. I don't mind buying more models each release, I actually want to. But I need it to feel like I'm getting something I want. As the demon army is, I'm not taking what demons I have and making an all demon army.

When Mortals come out, maybe they'll make it worth while, adding units that fill beastmen or demon gaps in coolness, choasness, and playability (Hordes and Beasts, while combining all three was not really unbalanced if you don't count SOC). If they want to split them up permanently (which they are doing), then I think they should do a better job of making me want to have three new armies.

Actually when seperated, beastmen might come out the best if they get all the 'brutes' as well as their woodsy, ambushy selves.

If 40k is any guide, expect generic "Lesser Daemons" in HoC.

daggitkiller wrote:I think it sucks as I have a very integrated army with beastmen being my smallest portion, most converted and best painted. Now I could like this change, even love it, if I felt they tried to make each army fresh and dynamic. The new demons lack cavalry, chariots and the pull to make seperate power armies, all things we had before. In splitting them up, we have less twice over. I don't mind buying more models each release, I actually want to. But I need it to feel like I'm getting something I want. As the demon army is, I'm not taking what demons I have and making an all demon army.

QFT. Making single-power daemon armies untenable was a terrible move for game aesthetics (mixed armies of opposing powers just aren't convincing). Worse than that, sticking players with fragments of multiple Chaos armies ($$buy more models to be viable, kids!!$$) is a pretty transparent and cynical marketting move. That they're doing the same thing in both 40K and Fantasy makes it really obvious. Yuck.

Beasts already got screwed by the core rules (as did all Skirmish armies) march-blocking Skirmishers. This was a removal of some very legit ancient light-infantry tactics in favor of Alessio's prized block units, which weren't really under any disproportionate threat. The Italian Cheesemonger overdid skirmisher's power with his weapon units in the Skaven book, then overscrewed all skirmishers in the other direction when he edited the core rules. Terrible designer, that guy. This sort of error makes me less than confident in the new 40K daemons book.

But back on topic, looks like Beasts will still be viable, as no-one I know uses more than two Mortal units in their Beasts armies anyways. I'm just worried that the Chariot Horde that I pull out when the cheese gloves come off won't be viable any more. Oh well. I guess I could use it in Legendary Battles...