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Is it just me or are the warjacks a lot tougher than warbeasts? It looks like the light jacks have around 25 damage boxes and decent armor, while the Carnivean has 28 boxes. Does this balance out somehow in a WM vs. Hordes game?

Warbeasts can function to the last three damage boxes (one
per spiral), while warjacks are disabled when three systems
are taken out.

Even if they aren't disabled, warjacks become gradually
worse and worse as systems are disabled, and it's relatively
easy to take out a system.

Plus, if you take out a warbeast branch, its controlling warlock can simply heal a single point off of that branch to regain full functionality. Annoying!

Does disabled = killed for a jack?

Not killed, but might as well be.

It can't move or activate.

As was previously stated; warbeast function til the last damage is taken, warbeasts can be healed and function with 3 dots remaining, and there's the feralgeist...

Jacks have a higher armour value and more wounds, but a beast can function longer.

Warbeasts also tend to have slightly higher DEF, while Warjacks have higher ARM. So it's harder to hit a 'beast, but they're squishier.

speaking of which, the Angelius will just beat you anyway.

Elemental Constructs aside, any Warlock can heal one of their Warbeasts back to full effectiveness by simply spending two fury. Constructs make up for this with higher armor and more health, and even then Baldur and Shifting Stones can remove damage from them.

Warjacks on the other hand cannot be healed so easily. It usually takes a special unit or solo to repair a jack. That means you're spending more points on a unit that usually cannot do anything other than wait around, hoping they don't get shot. And even if you do have a repair unit around, there's no guarantee that you'll be able to get your jack back up to full operating potential in one turn.

To balance that out, it's usually harder to damage a Warjack in the first place.
And while it's harder to hit a Warbeast, it's easier to kill them if you do hit.

Warbeast are also immeasurably more necessary to a Warlock than a Warjack is to a Warcaster.
A Warmachine army can consist of nothing but units and solos with no problem. Take the Warbeasts out of a Warlock's army though, and you're probably already lost.

and let us not forget that fury is WAY better than focus. A jack can have 3 focus PERIOD. many warbeasts have 4 or even 5 fury. And what happens when a warbiest frenzies? It makes all of its attacks(Boosted i might add) against the nearest target (usually the opponent). Warbeasts>Jacks
However Warmachine infantry>Hordes infantry.

While what you say is true, there is one important point that you are missing in favor of jacks.

A jack at the edge of it's Warcaster's control area can be allocated 3 focus and can then exit the Warcaster's control area and spend those focus. A beast has a much shorter leash.


A Slayer in Deneghra's battle group can begin the turn 14" in front of her, be allocated 3 focus, and then charge an additional 9" further from Deneghra and still spend it's two remaining focus to boost or buy attacks. Here, the action is taking place 23" away from the Warcaster.

On the flip side, a Warbeast under Krueger can only boost or buy attacks if it is within 14" of Krueger. If the Warbeast leaves the Warlock's control area, it's abilities are significantly diminished.


This may not be an issue much of the time, but it can really screw with your order of operations if you need to move your Warlock up field before your Warbeast can attack.

blue loki wrote:
On the flip side, a Warbeast under Krueger can only boost or buy attacks if it is within 14" of Krueger. If the Warbeast leaves the Warlock's control area, it's abilities are significantly diminished.

I did not know this. I thought a warlock could only siphon (wrong term, I know) fury off beasts within his area, but I thought they could generate focus anywhere. Good to know for my next game against Hordes!

Yea. All of the special rules regarding Warbeasts require that they are in a friendly Warlock's control area (although it doesn't matter which friendly Warlock in a 1000+ point game, there are no Battlegroups).

Forcing, leaching, reaving, and damage transfer can only be done if the beast is in range.

The clear fact remains warbeasts are better than warjacks for the same points cost.

I know someone has noticed this before and I've just missed the thread, but it seems to me that the warbeasts lack of a corollary to the battlegroup concept stands to add a LOT more flexibility to them than jacks get. Unless I am wrong (which I shamelessly admit happens), warcasters can only put focus on jacks in their battle group. There are also some spells, rules and things I've seen that affect only jacks in a certain casters battlegroup. I can't find any similar construction in the rules for hordes. It would appear, in larger games with multiple casters per side, that any lock can leach, reave, what have you, from any beast friendly to them; as oppossed to being limited to their "group". Is this just being nitpicky, not being familiar enough with the rules, or a viable point?

Aight Dakka. Shoot it fulla holes.

There are no holes. You're pretty much right. The only way
spells and affects are limited like battlegroups is in the card
text. It will read target friendly faction or target friendly
warbeast or something like that.

Honestly, (and it may just be me), but I've always had poor luck running my Cygnar against Skorne and Circle...

That's because Circle is amazing. No Joke. I once had My Khador Destroyer beaten to pulp by a Gnarlhord Satyr then Kaya spirit door'ed up to it and put a major beatdown on Karchev. Did you get that? A little girl with a stick a goat and two dogs beat the grease off of a Khador Destroyer, Kodiak, and Karchev!!!!! WOW!

I run Kruger and ill say that it is very easy to keep all warbeats within in his control range of 14" Ive also come to relize, with just now learning to play warmachine, that warbeast especially the warp wolf can take alot more punishment then say the ironclad or centurion even though their armour is so much higher. Now on the infantry side i run mostly ranged cygnar with the jacks for CC and the trenchers shred horde infantry. I use alot of beasts in hordes and only two units of infantry while in warmachine i go with three because they are more effective

Yup that is the consensus. My cygnar force is quite weak compared to my trolls because I'm jack heavy. I'd like to add a unit of long gunners and or something.

The combined fire ability and the range of the long gunners make them a greatchoice. on the flip side your oppenant will know this as well and try to eliminate as quickly as they can get to them. I use the trenchers combind fire and extend their range.

Trenchers can fill both ranged combat needs and assist in close combat as they are decent in HtH also. The long gunners are lost as soon as something comes close, so you can't manage without some additional close combat troops.

Of course the trenchers cost almost as much as unit of long gunners and a solo of your choice.

Still... the Trenchers are a threat at anywhere from melee range to their max. I ran a game last night, and an ugly thought came to mind...

Caine+6 Focus for Snipe+Combined attack from Trenchers=Juicy death at 16"... with defense from hell in the bargain.

and yes, the other guy's merc jack didn't like it one bit, since HE was FAR out of range for a counter attack... muahahaha.