Deathwing Army?

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**lancealot005**

I've been thinking about doing a deathwing army (i think deathwing is the termies). Anyway I just wanted to get some input on weather or not a all termi-dreadnaught list is acceptable...as cheesy as it sounds (I've got some really cool ideas for conversions). Sorry this isn't really a list...i just need some info/opinion on the matter. Thanks!!

**tegeus-Cromis**

You know that "cheesy" means "overpowered," right? DWing is the opposite of cheese. If an all-Termie army is really what you want, go for it. Your opponents will love you.

**orkyboss30000**

but an all termi list does sound cheese i mean come on... how tough is it going to be to make them fail those armour saves

**tegeus-Cromis**

At a guess, about as tough as pulling a win against you.

**lancealot005**

QUOTE: "how tough is it going to be to make them fail those armor saves"

Well when you think about the fact that an all termie army is gonna be outnumbered %99 of the time...

Plus if you get enough shots on a termie squad ur gonna fail a few armor saves...and on one wound models...

Also keep in mind that the fluff I have in mind for the models is NOT going to be deathwing or dark angels...I'm just using the rule-set...

**Ozymandias**

A pure DW force is difficult to win with. Not impossible and in certain matchups you'll do quite well but in others you will die, horribly.

Nothing is cooler, though, than a whole army of badass terminators!

Ozymandias, King of Kings

**Grand Preceptor**

lancealot005 wrote:Anyway I just wanted to get some input on weather or not a all termi-dreadnaught list is acceptable...as cheesy as it sounds (I've got some really cool ideas for conversions).

Acceptable, yes. Very viable, no. They are the opposite of cheesy. I used to play Deathwing exclusively under 3rd edition, when they were difficult to do well with (the Assault Cannon was not rending and only fired 3 shots), and I enjoyed the challenge and eventually got to be pretty good with them. I think the new DA Codex has made them much harder, to the point that I won't bother with them anymore. The outnumbering thing has always been the challenge with them- sure your army's basic trooper is a badass, but when you've only got 20 guys and a tank while your opponent has 60 guys on the board and 3 tanks, it can be rough. Every time you fail a save, that's a significant portion of your army that just died. Whereas an IG player practically has to lose a whole squad before he even notices.

**lancealot005**

True...there is always deepstrike, but you never know with that...especially if your gonna ds your ENTIRE army. Anybody ever been to Adepticon? I'm thinkin along the lines of that with this army.

**tegeus-Cromis**

You can't DS your entire army with DWA. You DS half the DWing squads, rounded up.

Grand Preceptor, while you're right about the difficulty of DWing, I don't know why you say it's gotten harder to play them with the latest dex. How was it easier when assault cannons sucked, Dreads couldn't get Venerable status (if I recall correctly) and Termies were a ridiculous 50+ points each? If you could play it back then, I'm pretty sure you could play it now.

**Sgt_Scruffy**

tegeus-Cromis wrote:Grand Preceptor, while you're right about the difficulty of DWing, I don't know why you say it's gotten harder to play them with the latest dex. How was it easier when assault cannons sucked, Dreads couldn't get Venerable status (if I recall correctly) and Termies were a ridiculous 50+ points each? If you could play it back then, I'm pretty sure you could play it now.

I'm pretty sure it was because you could still mix weapons, and you could take 2 CMLs in each squad. Before assault cannons got rending, CMLs were the wepon to take in terminator squads. I seem to remember the load-out being 2 CML, sergeant w/2 LCs...

**tegeus-Cromis**

Ah, okay. Maybe I just never got to see the (relative) effectiveness of dual CMLs in 3rd; my DA opponent has always insisted on ACs. He couldn't stand losing the PF. You can still mix weapons, by the way.

**lancealot005**

Can you take Dreds in a Deathwing army? I saw somthin online that said you could take em as troop choices in a deathwing list...dunno if i believe it though...

**Sgt_Scruffy**

Yeah, I know you can now, but when Deathwing actually worked the best was when you could take assault cannon spam, but you couldn't mix weapons.

Lancealot005- yeah, you can take dreads, but you can't take them as troops. I'd really suggest you get the Dark Angels codex if you're thinking about making a Deathwing Army -- you'll get a good dose of the rules, background, and modelling opportunities.

Deathwing is not for the faint of heart and they have probably one of the steepest learning curves of any army in Warhammer 40,000. Honestly, I would say that you'd be better off with a more traditional Dark Angels force (which isn't really that easy to play either) and include a squad or two of deathwing in said army. That way you can get a feeling for what a terminator squad can and can't do - it'll be easier from there to determine what you need/want.

**Ozymandias**

tC: You can deepstrike your entire army, but you can only DWA half of your DW squads. With a pure DW army I wouldn't ever deepstrike. You are already outnumbered, deepstriking compounds that problem.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

**orkyboss30000**

anyway now that we are on the topic of dark angels is it possible not to take sammael in a ravenwing army so the bikes core or if you don't take him you have to take some combats squads

**tegeus-Cromis**

Ozy, I kind of forgot about that. Good catch.

orkyboss30000, you need him to take RWing as Troops. That's not a bad thing--Sammael on Land Speeder is badass.

**Grand Preceptor**

tegeus-Cromis wrote:Grand Preceptor, while you're right about the difficulty of DWing, I don't know why you say it's gotten harder to play them with the latest dex. How was it easier when assault cannons sucked, Dreads couldn't get Venerable status (if I recall correctly) and Termies were a ridiculous 50+ points each? If you could play it back then, I'm pretty sure you could play it now.

The main problem is the 5-Terminator cap on squad size. This makes assault-oriented squads drastically less powerful- they have to be big, and 5 models simply isn't going to cut it. Since assault squads were the killer app for DW armies, the pure DW army is now lacking a powerful unit option.

The single heavy weapon problem is the next issue, along with the jacked-up price for an AC, but those I could deal with if the squad size limit wasn't in place. As it is, they're the icing on the cake of suck.

(Sorry for the late response; I don't enter this forum that often.)