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Hello, this is my first army build post on Dakka forums. Just to tell you all I'm glad I joined. I've been fiddling with a chaos list for a while and have been trying to accomplish two things:

1.) Build a Competitve Army List.
2.) Have the army list be fairly fluff worthy and have it make sense.

As you can imagine, this has proven pretty complicated.

Here's what I've made so far.

2 Daemon Princes w/ Wings, Mark and LoS (310)

Chaos Dreadnought, Lascannon, EA (140)
2x 6 Termies, Champ, Reaper (430)

10 CSM, Champ, PF, 2x Plas w/ Rhino, EA (270)
10 CSM, Champ, PF, 2x Melta w/ Rhino, EA (260)

3x Vindicators w/ Daemonic Possesion (435)

The game plan would be to move everything into comfortable range in the first turn, pop smoke, and try to survive the storm. The next turn would start with my (remaining) vindicators opening up, taking out the most hordiest or anti-tankiest sections. The CSM would pile out and start blasting (and then possibly, assualting if I keep the PFs) the enemy units. Terminators can either deepstrike, hold objectives, or assault depending on the situation. Against fast moving assualt armies like tyranids, most of my suff will stay back and hopefully draw them in without letting them get locked in close combat, thus escaping death by pie plates. The dreadnought will be off somewhere, far enough away from my units to avoid the wrath of it's lascannon.

The rest of the army would most likely be as much shooting as possible, and the PFs on the CSM squads are still questionable, depending on if I will use them as assault.
I don't know about others, but I love terminators. They just seem to not die and comand alot of respect from enemy shooters. At first I had one sqaud of Terminators and a second dreadnought but two of those crazied things makes me a little uneasy..... But I'll take suggestions on replacing the second dreadnought.
The two daemon princes are wonderful and the whips make wonderful tools to group the enemy nice and close for the ordance barrages, but like always, i'll take suggestions.

I have not decided on Icons yet, or on army fluff. Since I have two Slaneesh Demon Princes, Slaneesh seems like the way to go, but their mark doesn't add up well with shooters. I could always mix marks but it just leaves this little part in me restless.

I have 155 points left over after all of this. I was thinking about another squad, especially if 5th edition makes only infantry scoring. Every comment and suggestion on improvements and ideas are apprieciated!

P.S. (I love these things)

I may be new to this game but I think I can make some informed suggestions after lurking a great deal and watching a lot of games with Chaos being played. First I'd suggest dropping the Dreadnought. The points would better be suited to adding more terminators. I would also suggest removing the champs from the terminator squads. They really don't add much for the hike in points. I'd suggest adding a powerfist to the terminators aswell. 2 units of 6 termintors each with a reaper and power fist can do wonders. Last thing I'd suggest is to go cult with the troops. They are all good and serve their purposes really well, you can mix and match and call it a black crusade if the fluff irks you.

Ok, so you've got 2 random Slaaneshi DPs leading an unmarked army. First, if you're going to have Slaaneshi leaders and abuse LoS, at least mark the rest of your troops. 5 points for an IoS isn't much at all compared to the 40 point IoN. Because 2 Slaaneshi DPs leading an undivided army has no real fluff sense.

Ok, I like the suggestion about dropping the dreadnought, it seems like a wild card to me too. I don't understand the phrase "go cult with troops". Is that kind of like the chaos cultists in the 3rd edition book? Could you provide a link or a pagenumber, because it would help me loads. I guess I could add those powerfists, even just to make them more killy in CC.

Ok, cheese elemental, the unmarked army is becuase I couldn't decide on which marks to use, but I guess it makes sense to use IoS. The only issues I had not given IoS is that it would be a point sink on a competitive shooty army. I guess it really is the only thing that is logical, considering the DPs, but I wanted to be able to counter heavy swarm armies that excel in close combat while staying safe with shooty armies. Dedicating marines against a large number of enemies in assault not only keeps me from using the demolishers, but also usually ends up with them dead. I guess a good mix could never hurt though. Thanks for the advice!

I'll probabley post a revised list but I am wayyyyy to tired tonight. Nite!

"go cult with troops" = field cult CSMs, not standard ones. It's sound advice, I think. The way you're using the CSMs, PMs would be much better. The fluff is the only issue.

Ok, cult marines. Is that an option in the codex or somewhere else? Is it just a modeling change or is it a change in weapons and skills?

Cult Marines are Plague Marines, Thousand Sons, Khorne Berzerkers and Noise Marines. They're in the codex.

Oh! Ok, that helps me understand alot!

cult marines are plague marines, noise marines, khorne berzerkers and thousand sons. they each have their own entry in the codex and their own models.

these are all better than standard CSM because the have extra abilites and are fearless, even if they do cost a bit more.

if you scrapped the 2 CSM squads and the dreadnought you could take

6 Noise Marines, 5x Sonic Blaster, Blastmaster

6 Noise Marines, 5x Sonic Blaster, Blastmaster

6 Noise Marines, 5x Sonic Blaster, Blastmaster

7 1KSons + Sorcerer, Doombolt, Rhino

that used the 155pts you had remaining but gives you more ranged firepower, more effectiveness against horde armies, MEQs, medium/light vehicles and more bodies.

fluff you can just make up.

The twin marines of Arogan'lis and Eredegar, originally of the Emperors Children, have battled the servants of the false emperor in the name of slaanesh side-by-side for over 10,000 years. So great were their conquests that they were both elevated to demonhood together. Now they are the scourge the eastern fringe, crushing all that stand before them beneath the mighty forms, together with the remaining battlebrothers of their original company (noise marines), some followers that they have drawn to bask in their glory (terminators, vindicators) and the aspiring sorcerer Aznyak'giir of the thousand sons, whom has requested to help in the Twins wars in return for any arcane material that mey be recovered.

Thanks, I like the cult marine ideas and that your fluff example shows me how I could pull something like that off!

Here's a revised army list that includes some of the suggestions you guys have posted:

2 DPs, MoS, LoS, Wings (310)

8 Terminators w/ champ, IoS, PF, Reaper (300)
8 Terminators w/ champ, IoS, PF, Reaper, Combi-Melta (305)

2x 10 Noise Marines, 9 Sonic Blasters, 1 Blastmaster, Icon, w/ Rhino (650)

3x Vindicators w/ Daemonic Possesion (435)

So this army sure fills my shooty requirements, along with the fact that it seems competitive and fluff worth, especially if I convert the demolisher cannons into some kind of noise-looking gun. That would look awsome!

A couple more things are up in the air though. I could drop a few terminators and a few noise marines and possibly the rhinos to take another squad of noise marines because the extra terminators seem like they could be put to waste and another blastmaster would be sweet. I do like the noise marines with the rhinos though, just for the ability to get into position to let the terminators deep strike.

Also, I kept the terminator champs just because they give that PF that extra attack.

I honestly think you should be less obsessed with DSing your Termies. They're kitted out wrongly for that. DS Termies should avoid the Reaper (take a HF instead) and go combi-weapon heavy. Your guys are configured for foot-slogging instead.

And there's still no reason at all to take a Termie champ. And you still do need a PF or two in each squad.

So, would you recomend I change my terminators up and make them DS-worthy, or should I have them slogging? What has worked for you?

Neither has "worked for me" as I kill Chaos scum, not play as them. For now.

The truth is either can work, but IMO, DSing is best done by smaller, cheap-ish squads as a high-end variation on the IG suicide squads that are so annoying and effective. A big squad becomes too vulnerable to markers/templates, plus the more points you put into a DSing unit, the greater the disadvantage your on-table force starts with. Foot-slogging, on the other hand, is best done with larger squads (preferably with a durability-increasing Icon).

Perhaps you could juggle the numbers so you have one foot-slogging squad with two ACs and two smaller ones which you can DS in. Something like this:

10 Terminators: IoS (not the best for this, but I guess you want it for fluff), 2 PFs, 2 Reaper ACs

3 Terminators: 1 HF, 2 combi-[whatevers]

3 Terminators: 1 HF, 2 combi-[whatevers]

That would leave you with 10 points to spare for whatever (a couple of combi-weapons for the footslogging squad, maybe).

Good idea, i'll post another list with a few changes tommorow! Nite!

Heres a new list utilizing both DS and slogging terminators:

2 DPs, MoS, LoS, Wings (310)

10 Terminators w/ 2 PFs, 2 Reapers, IoS
3 Terminators w/ HF, 2x Combi-Plas
3 Terminators w/ HF, 2x Combi-Meltas


2x 10 Noise Marines, 9 Sonic Blasters, 1 Blastmaster, Icon w/ rhino (650)

3x Vindicators w/ Daemonic Possesion

Ok, so thats 1990 points. I could give the 10 squad Terminators another PF or a TC to add an additional attack. I like the suiciders idea. First, they definitely can worry the opponent and will draw alot of fire. Just get one behind to a tank or next to an important squad and let em have it!

Well thanks everyone, I'm pretty sure i'll go and buy some more models soon. I'll post the pictures and any battle reports I get up here! If theres any more comments, feel free to post!