My take on Nidzilla

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**ohm242**

Ok so I know i'm a little behind the times on army lists. I decided to put together a nidzilla list (1850) and see how it played. I fell in love with it. My oppenents face dropped when I placed my 8 MC on the board. After a little research, I realized that my nidzilla list seems to be different from a lot of them out there. I noticed that many of the current lists are 90% shooting with some stealers for the "shock" aspect. I'm not sure if i'm running an "Old School" list or not....but it really seems to work. Sure I have some bad match ups....so please don't rip this list to shreads...just offer some CONSTRUCTIVE critiscm...PLEASE!

Hive Tyrant
Twin Linked Devourer
Toxin Sacs
Enhanced Senses
Lash Whip and Bonesword
Extended Carapace

Hive Tyrant
Scything Talons
Scything Talons
Adrenal Glands (+1 I)
Adrenal Glands (+1WS)
Toxic Miasma
Toxin Sacs
Winged

Carnifex X3
Scything Talons (2)
Flesh Hooks
Adrenal Glands (+1 WS)
Toxic Miasma

Carnifex X2
Twin-Linked Devourer
Venom Cannon
Reinforced Chitin
Enhanced Senses
Spine Banks
Bonded Exoskeleton

Carnifex
Barbed Strangler
Twin-Linked Devourer
Enhanced Senses
Bonded Exoskeleton
Spine Banks
Reinforced Chitin

Ripper Swarm (8) X3
Toxin Sacs
Adrenal Glands (+1 WS)
Leaping

Ripper Swarm (8)
Winged
Toxin Sacs
Adrenal Glands (+1 WS)

The list is 1850 on the dot....I know it takes a beating from blast templates, and str 6 weapons....but i'm fairly smart with lines of fire, and usually only expect 1-2 rounds of firing (I know that's sometimes all that is needed)....suggestions?

**yermom**

If you optimize your list as in a mosterous creature should try to do shooting and combat or be anti infantry and anti tank than your list could work.
Also your list is illegal on 2 aspects 1. If you give your rippers wings they count as fast attack 2. you can't give a model leaping and wings.

Hope that helps!

**ohm242**

lol....guess I got carried away with that....good point...guess this frees up a few points...

**SandyEqualsDragon**

As a Tyranid Fatty, S6 guns aren't a problem as you get a save (except starcannon). Lascannon are what you don't want to see. You can buy +1 save or +1 wound.

If you want to melee, then melee Carnifexes just don't have enough attacks. A tactical marine squad with a pfist can kill one since it can't kill them fast enough.

For melee: Stealers on elites, large packs of Hormagaunts on chaff, and Tyrants on fatties.

Raveners are good for the deep strike and objective capturing ability. i.e. they score. They're also a credible alternative to Stealers as a counter assault unit (don't charge them up in front, they just get shot; engage with the Gaunts first then have the Raveners join).

"Classic" nidzilla has at most 1 fatty configured for assault. The other TMC (5 or 6, depending if you have Zoanthropes) are exclusively gun armed. That army can basially shoot Space Marines off the table.

**PistolWraithCaine**

I honestly would not use any TMC for CC, because they can't get there fast enough and I like to just sit mine in 4+save cover and make them unkillable to shooting. With that in mind I think that something should be geared out for one thing at a time meaning I would take two devs on the walking tyrant and drop the bonesword to make him super effective at one thing rather than ok at two.

This goes for the carnies as well. With VC and Dev you have two weapons designed for two different things and you have to shoot the same target so give the VC carnies a BS as well and make the others two dev.

I also find that the only upgrades worth taking on carnies are +BS and +W, the rest I think are too expensive and don't really help you out.

Have fun.

**SandyEqualsDragon**

I not played in a while (since new Ork book) but "currently" use:

1500 points
1x Tyrant + wings + assault setup + scream
1x Tyrant TL Dev/Venom + scream + 0-1 guard (depending on my mood)
3x Carnifex TL Dev
2x Carnifex Stranger/Venom
(2-3x) Some Zoes + Warp blast + Scream
(2-4x) Ravener
(2x) 8 Spinefist Gaunt
(1-2x) 6 stealer

1/ I'm quite tricksy, people are learning how to fight Nidzilla so you need to adapt a little. I also like to put people on tilt by poking them psychologically, so another reason a non-standard list is better for me. You can often mind control opponents into playing very suboptimally especially if they don't realise why the flyrant has blades and not guns.

2/ Raveners are solid gold as they can deep strike to own Devastators and then hide to hold the table quarter. They OK in counter assault too.

3/ This is far more flexible than the standard pattern (like, it might let you rip up a Carnifex in CC if it can throw an assault tyrant and raveners into you elsewhere, or you might try for the assault and find Mr Flappy comes to join in. That's a win if you were dependng on a single pronged assault to roll up the Carnifex line). It also still has enough guns to clear a table. Catalyst has been used on occasion.

4/ Mirror Match vs other Nidzilla - melee flyrant is good here.

I might lose the choir, but the CC Tyrant and Raveners are staying.

I have problems with Necron heavy destroyers, and some types of flying Eldar/Tau. Not played the new Orks yet.

**PistolWraithCaine**

1/ If you want to rely on situational strategies ok.

2/ Raveners can deep strike to...GET SHOT BY DEVASTATORS, you can't assault out of deep strike they have a 5+ save for god's sake.

3/ Why would you want to let your opponent rip up anything you have? Instead why not give him weapons that actually help you and you can still have him as a CC decoy...

4/ Melee flyrant is good, that's what I use. I walk the dakka tyrant.

Please give your HT warp field, you don't want your opponent to run away, it means you aren't in CC and you can be shot.

For the situational match ups:

Against necrons your list is at a huge disadvantage with only 5 MC. TMC match up great against necrons because necrons really can't deal with that mean high toughness 3+ save things. Just shoot the crap out of heavy destroyers (which are a terrible choice).

Mech eldar is a pretty good match up for us, you just need to shoot and shoot and hide your stealers because they are free VP.

Against Orks, shoot the crap out of them and keep your stealers back for counter charge, I've used this before and it's worked out pretty well.

Good luck.

**SandyEqualsDragon**

PistolWraithCaine wrote:1/ If you want to rely on situational strategies ok.

Definitely! I agree 100%! 40K is made of 2 parts:

1) Mathhammer, know what can kill what, and what can't.

2) Outplaying your opponent by using your favourable mathhammer matchups against his unfavourable ones; and by adding things such as terrain and VP to complicate his mathhammer computations; and mind-controlling the guy. Without that, you're just winning by rolling dice, and the whole game is a huge coin-flip.

PistolWraithCaine wrote:Raveners can deep strike to...GET SHOT BY DEVASTATORS, you can't assault out of deep strike they have a 5+ save for god's sake.

Please give me some credit for being intelligent enough to not do that :-) I have posted elsewhere that you don't use Raveners by charging them forward in the vanguard of the army as they'll get shot to bits. One would assume they would Deep Strike behind cover. Even if they don't it only 40 points. It gets shot and Devs can't split their fire. There are times when you give up 40 points to save more than that elsewhere (like if my Stealers were in position to charge, I'd give up a Ravener if the only thing stopping it happening was a Dev Squad's cannons). They could call your bluff and shoot the really important thing, but then that's probably a dead Dev squad... as i have said, mathhammer is only half of it.

PistolWraithCaine wrote:Please give your HT warp field, you don't want your opponent to run away, it means you aren't in CC and you can be shot. Against necrons your list is at a huge disadvantage.

I can jiggle with the powers and stuff. The list as presented above is an outline. I can't handle Necron Heavy Destroyers. I have the ability to remove the Zoes and Screams and add a Carnifex if I judge the local metagame needs me to do that.

Good Luck

Thanks, I do appreciate it. I would however add that people make their own luck ... it's why I lose small poker hands but win big ones. :-)

**PistolWraithCaine**

Actually this game is 70% army builder, 10% deployment, 10% dice rolls, and 10% shooting the right things.

I do many of the things you speak of especially MC'ing my opponent. However, I would never ever make a list that has that factored in. I would rather make a solid list that can win without such strategies and lets me dominate people who fall for them.

Now that I think about the ravener, I wouldn't even shoot it with my devs, I'd let it assault me and then kill it because it's t4 2w with a 5+ save. Your mathhammer is weak if you think a ravener is going to destroy a dev squad. It's 5 attacks, 3 hits, I'll even give you a rend, and then 1 other wound which will be saved. You then get 8 attacks back 4 hits 2 wounds and you should save none, good bye 40 points.

Why can't you handle necron heavy destroyers? Then aren't hard to kill and are a huge point sink.
.

**SandyEqualsDragon**

Why can't I handle heavy destroyers?

1x Destroyer Lord
2x10 Warrior
15x Destroyer
9x Heavy Destroyer

Delete stuff to get it into points. (Probably 5 HD and 12D in 1500? I don't remember the exact numbers --- But they'll bring more Heavy D for 'nids due to their gun). Bunch up, stay at 36 inches and shoot. Warriors run all game. It isn't unbeatable but it's a match I just don't want to fight with Nidzilla. They don't even need rez orbs since they're T5).

When did I say send only one Ravener after a Dev squad? I said they can only shoot one due to being unable to split fire.

I disagree on your percentages (70% AB, 10% Deployment, 10% Dice and 10% Play Skill) but there's no way to measure or prove these things so I will leave it at that. I will, however, say that anyone can download a credible army list from the internet, which means the 70% is the same for both! By your numbers that makes it 33% deployment, 33% dice and 33% skill, assuming both guys download a good list :-)

**PistolWraithCaine**

Last time I checked a s10 venom cannon negates t5 wbb, I'll have to check the codex though.

I took the stuff about using 40 points to blah blah as one ravener.

**SandyEqualsDragon**

S10 Venon Cannon does negate, but Necrons don't always use the orb as not everyone has S10 shooting. IMO they should if they're expecting Nids but ...

**tegeus-Cromis**

Everyone has S8 shooting, though. Reason enough to bring the Orb. Without it, lots of armies can phase you out just by plinking at basic Warriors with lascannons etc. I would expect to face a Res Orb by default when fighting Necrons and consider it a bonus when no Orb appears.

**PistolWraithCaine**

yeha I love it when people metagame against me. This is really off topic, every necron player should have a resorb end of story why are we talking about this?