Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So, soon I'll be starting work on my Leman Russ Demolisher. But before i go sticking and glueing I'm after a bit of advice as I never used, or even seen one of these babys being used before. I'm also wary of spending too many points on it as tanks make nice juicy targets. The role will generally be anti infantry unless a better target presents itself.

So I'm think heavy bolter on the hull and no sponsons.... I'd rather put sponson points towards a lascannon team, less eggs in my basket.... I forsee it being hidden behind terrain as much as possible and so lines of sight to the sides will usually be blocked to at least one side. Another reason for no sponsons is to make space for a couple of modelling ideas I have for it....

Comments suggestions very welcome?

Keeping in mind the 5th edition rumors about terrain and vehicles, you may want to give it some reasonably powerful sponsoons.


If you want to use it aggressively, I would arm it with the lascannon. You'll only be able to fire one weapon anyways, it might as well be the strongest available.

If you want to use it defensively to discourage charges and take care of MEQ, you should probably stick with heavy bolter for the hull, and get plasma cannon sponsoons. That will give you a very good reason to sit still for the first 1 or 2 turns until your targets are in optimal demolisher range. Were I a guard player, that is the configuration I would run.

The best advice for a build you are unsure of, particularly when the rules are about to change, is to either wait and see, or magnetize your weapons and mounts for an easy switch to the best configuration.

i made mine with hull lascannon and plasma cannon sponsons. this configuration gives range with sponsons and demolisher cannon for when enemy is closer up. i like the hull lascannon for those times when i loose main weapon and they always choose demolisher cannon - funnily enough. i don't intend to change configuration under 5th edition rules as its a great all rounder

Las/plas all the way. Especially if the rules for blasts work out the way in the rumored fashion.

The Demolisher Cannon provides a threat out to 24"; enemies who can stay outside that range will simply ignore it, meaning it's failing in one of its jobs (fire magnet for your standard Russ). Plasma Cannons & the hull lascannon extend that threat bubble significantly, without changing the role of the tank (it still shoots at really 'ard targets). As a bonus, it's better against TMCs and other nasty things.

you should really just do all HB's al around, that way you only spend 15 extra points on stuff you might not actually use and in instances where the demolisher cannon can't be used then you'll have a good anti infantry alternative. IG tanks should be devoted to anti infantry and IG infantry to mostly anti tank

I'm with Janthkin and Gunfex. Arming a Demolisher with Lascannon Hull and Plasma Cannon Sponsons makes it a significantly better tank without changing its primary role of killing heavy infantry. You could do all HBs on the Demolisher, but then once the main gun is destroyed you've got no signifcant AP capabilites and go from a heavy infantry killer to a light infantry killer. At BS 3, you'll probably average the same number of kills between plasma and HB bolters---the difference is the plasma wounds more targets easier and has a higher AP.

I agree with pretty much everything said above. The Lascannon and Plasma Cannons allow it to do something beyond 24", and once they hit 24" you switch over to the main cannon.

One thing I will add though is get two of them if you're not planning on teaming the Demolisher up with a pair of Russes.

BYE

Thanks for the advice guys.

The demolisher will be teamed with at least one Russ, two when I get around to building the 2nd.

I completly understand what you're saying about threat range etc, but am still a bit nervous about the plasma sponsons. Hull Lasconnon seems like the way to go, but in the past when I've tooled up tanks with max firepower they really do become fire magnets and tend to pop early, hence my thinking along Bastirous666 lines, why tool it up with plasma and risk losing the whole lot, when the 20pts could almost purchase a lasconnon. The team is quite pricy at 80 pts, but for that extra 60 you dn't run the risk of loosing the big guns at the same time, and whats more add ablative wounds.

My tactics may be a little off but at the moment I intend to move the russes etc forward to get some early shots off if possible, taking the fight to the enemy. I know they waon't last long this way but I'd rather do this, hopfully taking out some heavy infantry/light vehicles and buying a bit of time for the lasconon teams to pick off some enemy tanks before the troops mop up......

bit more persuasion either way?

Look at it this way covenant. If all of my firepower is going towards your tooled up Demolisher, then its not going into your other two AV 14 tanks. Plus, Guard armies do not have a problem killing light infantry. You have plenty of AP 4 in the army. You need to maximize your capabilities for dealing with AV 2 and a tooled Demolisher helps do that too.

As an aside, it is a wargame. Regardless of how you build your army, you risk losing every piece every time you place them on the table. The 185 points invested in a tooled up Demolisher with AVs of 14/13/11 will definately not break your Army, especially when properly supported with additional tanks and massed infantry.

Take care,
Mike K.

Thanks mike (PanzerLeader ), that's helpful and may just have persuaded me. I'd missed the point of the high armour, glad you pointed that out. How noob of me! Guess that's what happens when you don't play the army for years! As a side point, as players would you alow the vindicator buldozer blade to 'count as' extra armour rather than all terrain mod? I want to include this in my model, but rarely take the ATM

I am a fan of heavy bolter all the way around. It's cheap so you don't reward your opponent for doing what they were already going to try and do and it makes the tank still an effective threat if the main cannon gets destroyed.

I agree that the two plasma cannons and a lascannon configuration is scary but that really puts a lot of eggs in one basket and I'm just not comfortable with it.

covenant84 wrote:I completly understand what you're saying about threat range etc, but am still a bit nervous about the plasma sponsons. Hull Lasconnon seems like the way to go, but in the past when I've tooled up tanks with max firepower they really do become fire magnets and tend to pop early, hence my thinking along Bastirous666 lines, why tool it up with plasma and risk losing the whole lot, when the 20pts could almost purchase a lasconnon. The team is quite pricy at 80 pts, but for that extra 60 you dn't run the risk of loosing the big guns at the same time, and whats more add ablative wounds.

My tactics may be a little off but at the moment I intend to move the russes etc forward to get some early shots off if possible, taking the fight to the enemy. I know they waon't last long this way but I'd rather do this, hopfully taking out some heavy infantry/light vehicles and buying a bit of time for the lasconon teams to pick off some enemy tanks before the troops mop up......

bit more persuasion either way?

You increase the cost of the tank around 10% by adding plasma cannons. You increase the threat "bubble" of the tank by 225% (assuming a 180-degree semi-circular "bubble") by giving weapons that threaten in the 24-36" range. And you increase both the possible and the likely number of wounds inflicted on T6+ nasties. Plasma cannons are a BARGAIN.

As far as tactics go, the standard Russ has *no* reason to advance towards the enemy. At most, you shift to get clear fire lanes past intervening targets; the 6 FOOT range of the battlecannon means you don't have to get closer to enemy melta weapons, rending assault troops, or can-opening powerfists/monstrous creatures. VERY occasionally you might move a Demolisher forward, to extend its threat bubble to cover a specific piece of the battlefield, or take advantage of particularly good terrain.

Think of the Russ Demolisher as an "area denial" tool, with colored circles around it: a 24" circle marks out the Demolisher cannon range, where few enemies will want to be, while a second, larger circle marks out the threat bubble of the secondary weapons - the idea is to make that second, larger threat bubble be of actual USE as an area-denial tool, something that heavy bolters (or no sponsons) simply doesn't do.

true enough, but i still think it's a waste to spend those points there unless you have points to spare from something else. the plasma and lascannon on the demolisher should be secondary to all other weapon and troops bought for an IG list, and then when your satisfied with the number of troops you have you can start thinking about adding on things like plasma/las onto russ'

I don't agree. If you bring a Demolisher, you're bringing it for a specific role - you want the AP 2 template. If you didn't, you could get a standard Russ cheaper.

So if you're bringing the thing for the advantages AP 2 gives you, you should focus on that utility. And when you can enhance the intended role of the unit so significantly for so little (relatively speaking), it's foolish not to.

I gather from your comment that you're thinking of the Demolisher as just a Russ variant. It isn't - they have rather different battlefield roles. The standard Russ has a job very similar to the Basilisk - reach out and hit concentrations of enemy troops, preferably at a distance. It lacks indirect fire, but has better armor to help compensate. It is not effective against 2+ save targets, and not especially great against heavily armored vehicles.

The Demolisher is a counter-assault unit. It's meant to eliminate close-in threats, and to do that most effectively, it needs as many high-strength, AP 2 weapons as possible. It is specifically for dealing with 2+ save targets (Terminators), and is pretty threatening to even heavy vehicles (Landraiders, Monoliths).

i definitely see the demolisher as anti termie, anti tank if needed (but that's more of a last ditch effort), and anti big infantry. i know what russ' are for and what demolishers are for but in list like mine points are tight, also i really don't want to have an expensive tank get wasted in one shot. at 170pts with all HB's and extra armor it's expensive enough for me, so i'd much rather just take it fr as cheap as possible while maintaining anti infantry role.

Bastirous---I think your missing an important distinction when it comes to the Demolisher's Anti-Infantry role. The Demolisher's primary purpose is to kill HEAVY infantry. For 20 more points, you can upgrade it to have plasma cannon sponsons and a lascannon hull. Now if the main gun is destroyed, you still have the ability to kill terminators and other heavy anti-infantry en masse and can still fulfill its secondary role of killing heavy enemy vehicles in close.

Just some quick numbers to consider.

W/ 3 HBs, you get 9 shots, 4.5 hits, and just under 3 wounds against Terminators on average.

W/ the plasma cannons, you get 2 shots, 1 hit, and, depending on their placement, 2-3 chances to wound a terminator.

You get roughly the same number of wounds, but will kill significantly more heavy infantry with the las/plas than the HB. With your variant, once the main gun is gone, the Demolisher becomes considerably less effective in its main role and can, depending on the tactical situation, be ignored for the rest of the game or destroyed at leisure. Las/Plas makes it a continued threat, increasing the survivability of your other units.

EDIT: Sorry, typed 15 instead of 20 points originally. Missed your inclusion of Extra Armor.

the HB's rarely get shot. my demolisher acts as a main front and center item, where it moves forward 6" a turn, gets a bead on something sits in place and acts as something the enemy must kill or lose lots of crap on his main battle line. it's great!

all in all other weapons are there just so that the tank isn't totally useless after a main cannon loss, which in fact is hard to do, and not too much of a loss.

i understand your point here, i just think that cheaper is better, even just 20pts. a few pts extra and you'll have a guard squad. i guess my qualm with this is i like to cut corners. i'm like the star wars empire, more is better even if it is easier to kill/make crappy

I hear from a couple treadheads that multimeltas are great on sponsons and heavy bolters are good on hull and for some added long range get a heavy stubber and smoke launchers for protection

I had a Demolisher given to me, it had multi meltas on it.

It was a bad idea to outfit it that way. Unless yuou get within 12" of a vehicle it is of no advantage. If you can fire multi meltas you can fire demolisher cannon.

If you want three power shots against one full killing TMCs then again you need plasma cannon simply for the extra range.

I will refit my Demolisher sponsons one day, for now its 'counts as'.

i'm still going to suggest lascannon and plasma sponsons - just sit back and fire at range then if something is stupid enough to come within range of the demolisher cannon - toast! can't imagine anything better for denying bits of the board to your opponent.
and if you do loose main weapon you still have a las and plasmas to use. wow!! i love it.

Moving forward is kinda silly - they're coming towards you, so why go towards them?

8acon8oy wrote:I hear from a couple treadheads that multimeltas are great on sponsons and heavy bolters are good on hull and for some added long range get a heavy stubber and smoke launchers for protection

Stubber? 12 points for 3 S4 AP6 shots vs 10 points for 6 S5 AP4 shots? No. A Stubber is never a good idea on a Russ unless that Russ happens to be an Exterminator. Otherwise it's a false economy.

If you have Multi-Meltas your effective range is 12". If you are within 12" of the enemy you should be firing your main cannon, not your other guns. This is why you take Plasma Cannons and a Lascannon, so your tank can do something outside of 24". Once they've hit 24", then you switch over to the Demolisher cannon and blast whatever's been stupid enough to come near you.

BYE

Thanks guys, that's really helpful. Before I was seeing the tank as a line breaker, now more of a troop prtection tank, which is even better as it solves a problem I was having with the marine attachment, cc or firepower, will go firepower now as the role they would have is covered by the demolisher anyway. Will update mu list in the other thread, please feel free to comment on that too! http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/211554.page

OK, it's not quite as cool as i was hoping but here's the WIP. Not happy with the plasmacannons, will replace them in future when i get around to buying a devastator set. May even replace the lasconnon with the devastator one while I'm at it. It's not quite 'working tank' enough at the moment for my liking...any ideas?