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Well lately I have been trying my had at a far share of different flavors of space marines I've toyed with Ultramarines, Salamanders, and Blood Angels. All have some interesting twists as to how that are played( well 2/3 of them anyway . I have proxied my ultramarines in the play test them. I have won games with all of them fairly well and also lost quite horribly too, learning as I go. But last night I tried a proxy game of grey knights again tau and I must say that was more of a challenging game then any i've play before!

It did something for me that none of the games could do, and I think I may have found my next army choice. I've been reading on various forums about grey knights including the "way of the water warrior" tactica on bolterandchainsword. So I have at least some idea what's the more popular builds. I know that grey knights are a very hard army (pure grey knights which is what I will be dealing with, nothing else) and the purpose here isn't for anyone to help me build a super competitive list. I would just like for any of you out there who are more experienced than I with them to maybe share your wisdom.

Here is the list that I ran, again using proxy pieces. I know a guy at my game shop that is going to hook me up with around 1000pts at a great price so the proxies will be done away with! Anyways here goes:

HQ

Grand Master
Psycannon
Icon of the just
Hammerhand


TROOPS

Justicar
Grey knight in power armor x9

Justicar
Grey knight in power armor x9

Justicar
Grey knight in power armor x9


HEAVY SUPPORT

Dreadnought
Twin Linked Lascannon

Dreadnought
Twin Linked Lascannon

Dreadnought
Twin Linked Lascannon


This is about 1500pts. It was my first go and I must say I was surprised at the outcome. The tau player had 2 hammerheads, one railgun and one ion cannon. Also there were 2 devilfish and 2 stealth suit squads of 6 each with the +1 BS upgrade, a unit of 12 fire warriors and finally 2 broadsides with 1 shield drone. His HQ was the character command with the command and control drone with 2 fusion blasters, I can't remember her name. It was a friendly game so I didn't worry about the 1+ normal commander.

In this game at least, I realized that 3 dreadnoughts not the best use of points. 2 went down before they got a shot off( I did forget the 72 range of a railgun though). What did help with anti-tank was the psycannon on the grandmaster. He took down the ioncannon hammerhead and the devilfish!

They biggest thing that hurt me was the stealth suits. They were murder to my advancing troops. The shrouding saved me from being targeted 4 times! I was glad of that! I realized something however, that if I had a unit or two of the FAGKs I could deep strike them to help deal with the stealth suits. I'm not a huge fan of DS because of the risk but as I read the fluff about how dangerous drop podding is I actually don't mind the risk as much now. Another thing that before last nights game would hold me back from the idea is that it seems that I would want all the troops on the board at once as possible. Well that may not be a great thing, i've come to realize because that just gives the enemy more targets to shot at as well as making for a larger footprint to move across the board which may divide the forces or disallow them to bare down together on a enemy unit anyway.

Whereas if I had used a unit to deep strike I could have dealt with the stealth suits more effectively. Thus allowing more troops to get to the desired position in one piece.
So with this in might what are some thoughts on some good unit composition for both regular PAGKs and FAGKs? The popular ones seem to be 8-10 PAGKs no special weapons upgrades with maybe a targeter and homer, and 6-8 FAGKS with either 2 incenerators or 2 psycannons. I personally favor the psycannon for it's anti-tank/anti-skimmer abilities.

Isn't skipping psycannons in basic GK squads a little, well, insane?

tegeus-Cromis wrote:Isn't skipping psycannons in basic GK squads a little, well, insane?

Depends on if you're going for HtH or shooting. If you want stronger HtH, taking a psycannon removes four Str6 attacks and replaces them with two Str4. You still get two Storm Bolters for it'scost as well.

tegeus-Cromis wrote:Isn't skipping psycannons in basic GK squads a little, well, insane?

Insane is paying 50 points for a Marine with a +1S Heavy Bolter.

Powered Armored Grey Knights are best taken with no upgrades, they are overpriced as they are already.

Aduro, is there even any point going for "stronger HtH' with basic GKs? S6 non-PW attacks don't scare many things that would want to assault you, and how will 6"-a-turn GKs manage to assault anything that doesn't want to be assaulted?

kadun, I recognise that the psycannon is overpriced, but I think a psycannon GK is less overpriced than a normal GK, i.e. adding it makes you more efficient despite the cost.

Maybe I just don't understand how GKs work. My understanding was that to have even a chance of winning, you basically need to sit back and blaze away and hope Shrouding is kind to you. Too, too many armies will just eat you up in assault. If I'm wrong, do explain it to me.

tegeus-Cromis wrote:Aduro, is there even any point going for "stronger HtH' with basic GKs? S6 non-PW attacks don't scare many things that would want to assault you, and how will 6"-a-turn GKs manage to assault anything that doesn't want to be assaulted?

Weapon Skill 5, Strength 6. You'll be hitting most everyone but characters on 3s and wounding on 2s. That's something that scares *most* opponents. I've never failed to get Grey Knights into assault yet, as I tote them up to the front line in Land Raiders.

kadun, I recognise that the psycannon is overpriced, but I think a psycannon GK is less overpriced than a normal GK, i.e. adding it makes you more efficient despite the cost.

The Psycannon costs as much as a Grey Knight, which is why I think it's over priced. For 50 pts you can have two guys with four Str4 shooting attacks and four Str6 HtH attacks, or one guy with three Str6 shooting attacks and one Str4 HtH attack. I just don't think it's gain is worth what it makes you lose. On a Terminator, yeah, Psycannons are solid gold, as they lose no HtH attacks (remember, the terminators do not get true grit), and gain shooting attacks with the higher Str. Plus they can move and still shoot at the max range. I buy the one for the squad member, and then pay the higher cost to buy an additional one for the Brother Capt.

Maybe I just don't understand how GKs work. My understanding was that to have even a chance of winning, you basically need to sit back and blaze away and hope Shrouding is kind to you. Too, too many armies will just eat you up in assault. If I'm wrong, do explain it to me.

There are two general forms of Grey Knight armies. The one you're thinking of is where you take small six man squads and max out on Psycannons and Laz toting Dreads that hug the back edge of the board and try to shoot it out at range. Other you take larger squads of knights that pimp it to the front lines in Land Raiders and slug it out. It's probably trickier, you risk more and would take more casualties, but it's more fun, and will probably be better in 5th when you need to be up there taking the objectives anyways.