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hey guys , first time poster here , been reading your guy's posts to try out diffrent tactics and what not , but i just cant seem to figure out how to get past one of my friend. hes been playin for years , and loves the new ork dex, and i just cant seem to figure out how to beat his current strategy. we play on a semi small table to begin with , which could be part of the problem ( guessing 56ish by 36ish) but anyways , hes always grabs a warboss\PK with a retnuie of meganobs\PK and takes 2 of thos squads and puts them in trukks, whilst plowing down a good lot of stuff with a squad of lootas or 2. just cant figure out how to take out thos mega nob\ warbosses. any suggestions? o yes , i play SM btw

Use cover to your advantage. Shoot down his Trukks before they get close to you. You don't want his boss and knobz getting up in your grill.

I don't know much about either army, so I can't give you any detailed response, but try what I said above. If you do take out his Trukks early, his boss and knobs will have to walk, meaning you can shoot them to death. Then you can take out the Lootas.

With Orks, the smaller, Elite mobs tend to be very hit-or-miss. As Seamus points out, take the Trukks down and a large chunk of your enemy's force has been transformed into reasonably well-protected pedestrians.

What information can you give us about your own usual force? What size of game do you usually play?

well, if you're really playing on a small table, the first thing I'd suggest is you make sure you're adjusting the deployment zones accordingly. The deployment zones are designed in a way to leave a large no mans land at the beginning of the game. If you end up with 12" deployment zones on a 36" table you could easily put yourself in a position to be charged on the first turn by the orks, which shouldn't happen.


Outside of the table/deployment...shoot the trukks, and rapid fire his guys to death when they get out. Thats about all you can do or need to do. There are some Space Marine assault units that could potentially ruin their day (Shrike's wing, Death Company) if you really wanted to try to do that but otherwise it's an exercise in killing the transports and then backing away while shooting them up.

Finally, you can do something like try to sacrifice a unit to the orks to leave them in the open. They assault something, win on your turn, and then are left out in the cold.

That tactic will work even better in 5th as consolidation into new units won't happen anymore. So you can leave the sacrificial unit only an inch or three in front of the others, rather than needing to get it 6+ inches away to avoid their consolidation as it is now in v4.

My main suggestions against orcs: If you can take on their squads individually you will most likely come out ahead. So do what you can to prevent them from double charging one of your squads. For instance in any pair of trucks stop one of them. This lets you take them on one at a time where your better armor, initiative, etc do more to them than they do to you. Any single squad charged by two orc mobs at the same time is pretty much dead. So if he has four trucks coming at you in ABCD formation stop A and C or B and D if you can. Break them up for the win.

Deployment: Deploy as far from the orks as you can. hug the board edge and maximize shooting to reduce the impact of the orks hitting your line. Don't get stuck hanging there though, if you have an assaulty army you stil lwant to try for the charges ... just wait long enough to use what shooting you do have before moving to engage. The Waagh makes it difficult to get the jump on orks, but it can be done if your shooting has slowed one or two units down or reduced their numbers enough that letting them charge you is actually in your favor. When you do engage try to double up on their squads to elimiate them completley rather than killing a few regular orks only to have their PK nob do as much damage to you. Again 5th is going to work in your favor a little here as well since if you can start getting enough wounds on the squad you can start making the PK nob take specific saves. Footslogging orks will get to you faster in v5 though as they will be able to run instead of shooting.

As far as lootas go: a landspeeder with flamer is a good way to take them out since they will likely be all grouped into a single piece of cover providing terrain. Take two to make sure one of them gets there though .. orkses have an uncanny ability to hit things with their BS of 2 and rokkits.

In 5th the lootas deployment will change some as well since scouts and infiltrators will be able to threaten units from side table edges ... you will see the lootas placement change a bit more towards the middle and it won't be as easy to grab the best cover saves.

Terrain: If his units are always hiding behind big pieces of terrain or you are covering the board in terrain ask to use a random amount of terrain (still keeping reasonable minimums) so that you play a few games where there is a little less terrain on the board, and some with a little more. Using a method similar to Warmachines or WH fantasy's terrain deployment in some games would let you dictate the terrain a little bit (for instance place a pond instead of a hill, building, or forest). Again, 5th is going to work in your favor here with true los it will be a lot harder to hide trukks or mobs from fire. Especially if your opponent is using the new bigger trukks and not the dinky old ones.

Orkses can be tough for marine players but with the right attitude and a few strategies you can guarantee that the fight will be good and can swing in your favor.

Meph

thanks for all the help and ideas guys, i also justr realized i posted this in the wrong aera , sorry. but i do have an amry idea too. anyways , i absolutly hate assult, and try and stay away from it as much as possible , it seems i have a tendancy to roll 1's and 2's everytime i get in HTH. anyways , i seem to have a thing with land speeder tornado's , HB and AC, and tend to use pred anni for my anti tank ability , or use speeders with meltas. cant really find a good use for take swuads , i HATE the rules for rapid fire, and i dont quite understand why everyone says a las\plas tac squad is so good. oh , and we always play 1500 pt games, least give or take a few points. anyways , heres that army list i thought up , it sounds like it could be fun - if played right

HQ
Techmarine (per trait)
-4x tech servitors 170
-rhino

troops

2x scout squads
-4x sniper rifles 95 each
-1x missle launcher

fast

3x land speeders (all grouped individually)
-heavy bolters and Assault cannons 80 each

3x vindicators
-smoke launchers 158 each
-power of the machine spirit

elite (per trait)

2xdevastator squads
-4 las cannons 215 each

1504 total points

idea here being move the vindy's straight up in a wall with the tech in the rhino behind him incase soemthing happens, leave the deav sqd's back and help with anti armor or fire support and scout to try and pin units , or atleast provide something else to shoot at other then the deva's

Well, lets just say that you need less scouts. And probably more anti horde.


I would suggest that you invest in some horde killing tanks. Such as possibly 3 dreads, (or at least switch the 4 lascannon devs to one with Heavy bolters and one with plasma cannon devs)

Second, you need some plasma. If he keeps hitting you with his trukks and mega armoured nobs you could really use some plasma in your list. I would take at least one dev squad with either two missile launchers and two plasma cannons or just four plasma cannons. Seeing at first you shoot his trukks, then his nobs, then switch the template goodnes to his mobs that are moving across the table.

Lastly, I think intsead of running three vindicators you may find it worth while to run a whirlwind and two vindicators with a dread or two. They all will eat orcs for breaky and if you time it right you dread could even destroy/speedbubmp a squad for a turn or two with your dread.

So for my total recomendations

Drop:

the Devastators (or at least one, two is overkill in 1500 pts if all they have is lascannons)

Re arm a Dev team to either Plasma cannons or missile launcher/plasma cannons

Get a Dread nought or two (you prolly only need/can fit one)

Drop a Vindicator and get a whirlwind.

Drop the scouts and get two tactical squads. If you have the points give the sarge a power weapon.

And that should see the little greenies weep.

PS: I would suggest simply using some units as proxy units to test out what I just suggested, it would be better than buying all themodels and finding one doesn't work with your stile. just make sure the base size is the same and you clearly mark which is which.

I'd also recommend attempting your bizarre 'hatred' for large sections of the rules. Rapid firing weapons are going to be of use to you because those Orks ARE going to get in range.

Your army is certainly causing you problems in this instance for many of the reasons listed by Ratbarf. Vindicators? Shortest ranged Ordnance in the game. Yes, extremely powerful, but you need to be able to thin out the Orks at range and you don't have the right stuff to do so.

Try to play a smaller game or a bigger table. 1500 Points balances pretty well on a 72" x 48 " table, so using a smaller one will absolutely affect things.

ok , well , that army list was just an idea that sounded fun, diffrent from my normal style. normally id usually run a pred anna or 2 with 3x las, then scouts with snipers and usually a sizeable force of land speeders with HB's and AC's, or meltas if im playin my other friend who plays IG.
i kinda like scouts over tac's cuz of the range , if i get my tac's with in enuff range to rapid fire , they usually die the next turn due to being shot and assaulted, or at the very least , locked down and cant shoot , and usually end up staying that why untill dead.
ive tried running dreads, many times, i really want to like them , but they just always seem to die. what would be the best way to use them against orks? and again , i still cant figure out why everyone says las\plas tac sqd's are so good.
i was tinkin bout makin a SAFH type thing with bascially as many HB's as i could get. pred autocan\HB's, elite devs with HB's, maybe speeder phoon. think that may work well against orks?