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This is the 2nd draft of my CSM list - the 'chapter' has been decided upon ('Steel Brethrn - p24 Codex: Chaos Space Marines) and the list is meant to be a balance between fluff and tactical/gaming ability (not an uber list). Thanks go to all those who replied to my last list, your advice was appreciated and considered (don't take offence if I didn't us it). Again I appreciate all advice/feedback.

HQ

Daemon Prince - Wings
Warptime
Mark of Tzeench 175

Elites

Chaos Terminators - 4 men
Terminator Champion
Heavy Flamer
3 Combi-Plasma
Power Fist
Chain Fist 175

Chaos Terminators - 4 men
Terminator Champion
4 Combi-Plasma
Power Fist
Chain Fist 175

Troops

Chaos Space Marines - 10 Men
Aspiring Champion w/ Power Fist
2 Plasma Guns
Icon of Chaos Glory 230
Rhino APC - Extra Armour 50

Chaos Space Marines - 10 Men
Aspiring Champion w/ Power Weapon
2 Plasma Guns
Icon of Chaos Glory 220
Rhino APC - Extra Armour 50

Khorne Bezerkers - 10 Men
Skull Champion w/ Power Weapon
2 Plasma Pistols
Personal Icon 275
Rhino APC - Extra Armour 50

Plague Marines - 10 Men
Plague Champion w/ Power Fist
2 Plasma Guns
Personal Icon 295
Rhino APC - Extra Armour 50

TOTAL - 1745 POINTS

- Please feel free to criticise/guide, especialy if I have made any stupid decisions, I am grateful for ALL feedback. I am currently thinking abot putting melta-bombs on the PW Asp. Champ. with the last 5pts, just not too sure if it would be better to drop the K.B. plasma pistols and buy somthing bigger - suggesions?
- From this list I guess you can tell why I am nicknamed 'Plasma Boy'! (20 plas. cannons in 3rd Ed. 1500pts D.A. sealed it!)

Peronsally I think you need at least one unit of guys with melta and maybe a unit with flamers. Then again after reading your title down below I think trying to add input would only be a waste of time as your not likely to change your guys around?

Ok. I don't really see any AT shooting in this army at all. None. True, medium vehicles may be in trouble against all the plasma, but that is a 24" range, and anything with AV 13 or esp AV 14 will smash you completely. Such as Templars or Guard. Or Necrons for that matter.

I know you have a chainfist on the termies, but that is a really really unreliable delivery system to beat up tanks, especially as the unit is almost worth as much as most tanks.

Could I suggest perhaps you swap out the heavy flamers and some combi plasmas to a reaper autocannon and maybe, maybe a combi melta for the termies to add variety, and a bit of range.

Get rid of the Zerker plasma pistols - its never worth it - if you are in range to shoot, you are in range to charge, or be charged next turn, so why have them?

The other option if you really want is to get some oblits - maybe swap out a terminator unit for a few oblits to add AT firepower - and since oblits now have plasma cannons as well, you can keep in theme. Heck, you could swap out the termies alltogether and just get 6 or 7 of them.

lords2001 wrote:
The other option if you really want is to get some oblits - maybe swap out a terminator unit for a few oblits to add AT firepower - and since oblits now have plasma cannons as well, you can keep in theme. Heck, you could swap out the termies alltogether and just get 6 or 7 of them.

This man, he knows things. Please for the love of God listen to him or you'll be weeping at night because you can't win. Also get another DP. I don't care what you cut to get him but it must be done. If you don't the single DP will just eat all the boards shooting very quickly. Two will be able to engage as a team and rock pretty hard.

Thnaks for the feedback.

Tarval wrote:Peronsally I think you need at least one unit of guys with melta and maybe a unit with flamers. Then again after reading your title down below I think trying to add input would only be a waste of time as your not likely to change your guys around?

Not at all I appreciate any input - I just end up creating plas-heavy armies, I don't set out to do it specifically, so am open to other alternatives.

lords2001 wrote:Ok. I don't really see any AT shooting in this army at all. None. True, medium vehicles may be in trouble against all the plasma, but that is a 24" range, and anything with AV 13 or esp AV 14 will smash you completely. Such as Templars or Guard. Or Necrons for that matter.

I know you have a chainfist on the termies, but that is a really really unreliable delivery system to beat up tanks, especially as the unit is almost worth as much as most tanks.

Could I suggest perhaps you swap out the heavy flamers and some combi plasmas to a reaper autocannon and maybe, maybe a combi melta for the termies to add variety, and a bit of range.

Get rid of the Zerker plasma pistols - its never worth it - if you are in range to shoot, you are in range to charge, or be charged next turn, so why have them?

The other option if you really want is to get some oblits - maybe swap out a terminator unit for a few oblits to add AT firepower - and since oblits now have plasma cannons as well, you can keep in theme. Heck, you could swap out the termies alltogether and just get 6 or 7 of them.

I was thinking about swapping 2 Combi-Plas in the non-flamer Terminator squad for 2 combi-meltas and 1 for 1 in the flamer squad. As I'm deffinately dropping the plas in the K.B. that will free me up enough to get a Reaper Autocannon in the non-flamer Terminators (should that be combined with 2Plas/1Melta or 1Plas/2melta?). I'm gonna buy 3 obliterators on top of this list (after 3rd draft) so that I can swap them in if the 2 Terminator list fails me (it won't be a waste of £ as I like the Termi minis and enjoy the painting aspect). I probably won't drop all termis for obliterators - for fluff and wanting to use the models above tactics.

Again thanks alot for what's been said, I am grateful.

Get some Havocs or Oblits for AT. Otherwise, the list looks fairly solid.

Right, this is the only bit of revision that I have actually enjoyed doing today (got my Geography A-Level exam tomorrow!) and is (in my opinion) the best list by far that I have written (thanks to all who contributed in guiding me to this point) but thats not to say that it is not open to debate - feel free to rip! It is a good balance between fluff (what little there is for the 'Steel Brethren' in Codex:CSM), tactical/gaming ability and models I like. Here it is:

[u]HQ[/u]

Chaos Lord – Daemon Weapon
Combi-Melta
Terminator Armour 150

Elites

Chaos Terminators - 4 men
Reaper Autocannon
3 Combi-Weapons (2 Plasma/1 Melta)
Power Fist
Chain Fist 185

Troops

Chaos Space Marines - 10 Men
Aspiring Champion w/ Power Fist
1 Plasma Guns
1 Melta Gun
Icon of Chaos Glory 225
Rhino APC 35

Chaos Space Marines - 10 Men
Aspiring Champion w/ Power Weapon
1 Plasma Gun
1 Melta Gun
Icon of Chaos Glory 215
Rhino APC 35

Khorne Bezerkers - 10 Men
Skull Champion w/ Power Weapon 240
Rhino APC 35

Plague Marines - 8 Men
Plague Champion w/ Power Fist
2 Plasma Guns 264
Rhino APC 35

Heavy Support

Obliterator Cult – 2 Men 150

Obliterator Cult – 1 Man 75

Predator – TL Lascannon (Turret) 105

TOTAL - 1745 POINTS

* Dropped the DP as, from what everyone on every forum has told me, they are pretty much useless on their own as they just soak fire - and I refuse to run 2 in one army for fluff's sake (can only really happen if both the champion and the sorcerer become ascended which is unlikely) and that I don't want to lose anything in the army to afford one.

Not sure if I suggested this before, but a simple and effective change to make is put the tactical meltas all in 1 unit, and the plasma guns all in 1 unit. That way you aren't wasting shots.

Blackjack13 wrote:
HQ

Chaos Lord – Daemon Weapon
Combi-Melta
Terminator Armour 150

What? This is a bad idea. Why did you change from the DP? The DP is much, much, much better.