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1st simple

6X15 men squad with a champ and a fist

2 squads of Obil's. with 2 in each

Lucius/or Abbadon (drop one guy each squad or drop one Obil.)

from a fluff stand point, pre-heresy would indicate a non-csm codex list. pre-heresy being before the fall to chaos, which would mean no oblits. lucius has yet to been corrupted etc..

from a gameplay standpoint, you cant take 2 heavy weapons in a CSM unit..
lucius sucks. abaddon as fulgrim is just weird. and 90 marines + abaddon just wouldnt be an effective CSM list.

edit: 90 non-cult marines that is. and without iocg they will run and keep running

wrong one

ahhh should've specifed that sorry.

Ahh ok here we go.....

"from a fluff stand point, pre-heresy would indicate a non-csm codex list. pre-heresy being before the fall to chaos, which would mean no oblits. lucius has yet to been corrupted etc.."

This would be count as and modeled differently. The obils. Would be ADM Robots. And Lucius would be himself. (now he sucks just fluff wise) My Comapny is his 13th comapny.

The Marine Codex can't do what i want to do with alot of Squads and men like the days of Preheresy.

Squads back then had like 15-20 men in them. Can't do that with any other Marine codex.

"from a gameplay standpoint, you cant take 2 heavy weapons in a CSM unit.."

Your right.

"abaddon as fulgrim is just weird"

another count as the only to show the Primach without him dieing and him being a combat beast.

"and 90 marines + abaddon just wouldnt be an effective CSM list."

Are you serious ? 90 Horde Marine is amazing. If done correctly. all 4 across the board except W,A,LD and all champs. have fist and all of them have 2 base A

Explain the suckage in that.

I've Beaten Nidillza twice Demons once Anti Nercon Guard once Elder once. Beat Foot Guard Once & Tau(hate tau)

(Lost to Lash chaos twice & demons list but thats cause i have no anti physic .. :( )

"and without iocg they will run and keep running"

Not to worried about LD 10 ,15 Marines pussin out.

And if they fail i cant rally them any way I dont have ATSKNF. (Shouldn't Chaos Now less fear they live with demons)

It's a fun army and hope i answer your question's

Thank you for the comments so sorry i didnt specify in the beginning.

think of it this way, chaos marines cost the same as a normal marine, but they dont have ATSKNF. which in game terms suggests they are not as cost effective as a loyalist marine. so what if they have a BP/CCW and a Bolter. they run and dont stop.

the 90 "horde" marine build is way more effective out of the loyalist dex. plain and simple.

which list beat Nidzilla? the oblit/lucius list or the illegal 6 heavy bolter 6 lascannon list? what was the eldar list?

"another count as the only to show the Primach without him dieing and him being a combat beast."

fulgrim isnt dead, he's possessed by a demon. you can get a combat beast in other ways than using another characters rules to represent another. abaddon is almost the anti-fulgrim. chaos wont let him ascend (well descend is this case) to demonhood. he is to strong to be corrupted so easily. fulgrim was weak and so the demon in the sword possessed him.

1)Loyal Marines are 17 pt base for Nades then i'd want ture grit so 20pt marines.

2) Loyalist you only get 10 at most with vet. srg. an fist for 235pt or get 15 CSM and champ with fis for 20 more pts.

3)I never used the other list just posted it as a idea (2 Heavy weapon)

4) Elder- Vphyers and ALOT of Dire Avgeners and such

5) I know that about Fulgrim. But i want something to reprsent him when he was alive. *This is his best chance.

6) I know all about EC history turst me.

7) Having 15 rapid bolters fire at one unit pretty much kills them off.

8) When the new Marines come out i may use that one.

im talking base points cost. no true grit. again loyalist are more cost effective. you want to take 20 point loyal marines that arent fearless and I5 go ahead, ill take the same number of noise marines any day of the week. cult marines are better in every way once you jack up the cost to 20 points.

Any other Comments ? ? i want to now what to work on maybe or any one else's experince with this army.

I do take stuff into account and will try it out btw.

I have tried it using Loyalist not that good only real nice thing is anti pyshic

ghostmaker wrote:1st simple

6X15 men squad with a champ and a fist

2 squads of Obil's. with 2 in each

Lucius/or Abbadon (drop one guy each squad or drop one Obil.)

This list is trash and will get rolled by anyone actually playing the game with intelligence. You should really diversify it.

Really it's trash. thats nice.

With intelligence? 40k has many tatics ?

So me beating Nidzilla twice,Anti Nercon Guard,Guard,Demons,Elder,and Tau. Thats trash ?

So BS WS S T I - 4 is Trash ? when takin with 90 marines that have base 2 A and LD 10.

Thats Trash ?

Just making sure we have a common ground here.

I'll admit what Rapes it is Psyker Armies. And maybe another horde army. (at times)

What whould you run Typeline and btw keep it Fluffy?

Thats been my goal as well.

I do understand that you think it's trash i would like to hear why you think so.

And the people I play are intelligent. Most of them are smarter then the people on Dakka *key word most.

ghostmaker wrote:With intelligence? 40k has many tatics ?

So me beating Nidzilla twice,Anti Nercon Guard,Guard,Demons,Elder,and Tau. Thats trash ?

I'm sure you don't realize that your doing exactly what those lists do. Spam the same type of unit to beat teams that are bad vs. that type of unit. I usually see you whining about Nidzilla/X-Spam/Trifalcon/13th Company as the reason that there aren't tactics over and over in 40k. And yes your list does play the spam rock/paper/scissors version of 40k, I know you don't think so. You tend to bump your post count a lot with that rant though.

ghostmaker wrote:So BS WS S T I - 4 is Trash ? when takin with 90 marines that have base 2 A and LD 10.

Yes, spamming Marines is trash. They have LD 9 on a basic CSM. They will run after they take a few casualties. You will also be shot to death trying to use that INCREDIBLE OMG HOLY SHNIKIES 2 attacks...

ghostmaker wrote:What whould you run Typeline and btw keep it Fluffy?

If I wanted to run a pretty basic Fluffy Emperor's Children list that is diversified and generally good, I'd run this.

HQ
Chaos Sorceror
Mark of Slaanesh
Lash of Submission
Personal Icon
130pts

Chaos Sorceror
Mark of Slaanesh
Lash of Submission
Personal Icon
130pts

Troops
10x Noise Marines
Sonic Blasters
Champion
Power Weapon
280pts

10x Noise Marines
Sonic Blasters
Champion
Power Weapon
280pts

10x Noise Marines
Sonic Blasters
Champion
Power Weapon
280pts

10x Noise Marines
Sonic Blasters
Champion
Power Weapon
280pts

Heavy Support
2x Obliterators
150pts

2x Obliterators
150pts

10x Lesser Demons
130pts

10x Lesser Demons
130pts

That 2000 point list needs some work, but they are some good emperor's children. It uses the Cultist's, so they are fearless. It shoots well and assaults well if it needs to with the Lesser Demons to back them up where they might be needed. I'm sure most would say scrap them for more Oblits and I think that is probably a good call. If you want to do a "Pre-Heresy" list, don't post one using CSM.

ghostmaker wrote:I do understand that you think it's trash i would like to hear why you think so.

Because your going to get shot down/out meleed/out maneuvered by other armies.


oh and Lucius is crap... all you need to do to know this is read his stat line then read the DPs

this army has no buisness beating a nidzilla army played by a competant player, typeline is right. id like to see this nidzilla army you beat. ill wager a guess and say its not a typical 7 TMC + Stealer list, rather 4 or 5 TMC with gaunts.

anti necron guard is well anti necron, so indeed an army built to defeat one army would be at a disadvantage against others.

what kind of demon army? you play this list against a skarbrand 80 nette horde and you will get wiped clean off the board.. even if you kill 40 of those nettes the other 40 will tear through your marines like a hot knife through butter. abaddon will not save you from that and lucius is one of the worst characters in the game. tallyman nurgle would be hard for you to beat too, nigh unbeatable once they kill enough of yur lads.

green tide orks will crush you with more attacks and twice as many models, drop guard will have a feild day with you. i just dont see how this is an effective CSM build. all the effective builds from other codices should roll this list especially at 2k pts. (zilla, orks, 2x lash csm, drop guard, tri-falcon eldar, tallyman nurgle, mech tau etc.)

you can pull off a fluffy EC list and still put a competitive list on the table. its called noise marines with sonic blasters.

in all honesty you are running a black legion army painted pink, not a EC army.

wow......k

PREHERESY means no Sonic Blaster's and such. or DP

"anti necron guard is well anti necron, so indeed an army built to defeat one army would be at a disadvantage against others"

25 + Plasma,10+ Melta 1 Demo 1 Russ 1 Bask. Some witch hunters. and lots of Lascannon's and Heavy bolters. Thats the IG Army

Nidzilla was 6-7 TMC + Stealer list * the stupid shooty fexes the ones with like 8 reroll shots.

The Demons was a first try by him. Slaughted the Demonattes there where 40+ of them and then alot of the pink horrors and DP.

It's not painted Pink.....you dont now anything about "preheresy" Purple was there color.

AND IN PREHERESY they used mass men.

At though out this post i've said it's a fluff army.

Typeline i do like your list it just isnt preheresy for me sorry. And I hate Lash.

actually it's 3 A. And there LD 10

tactics it's a inside joke.

K Orks. If in shooting range i'd sit still with 1 squad and get 30 shots off. ( I know they'd almost destory me in combat )

Abaddon count as fulgrim is only PREHERESY way I could show fulgrim off.

Him as a DP sucks and as a Lord haha.

"you can pull off a fluffy EC list and still put a competitive list on the table. its called noise marines with sonic blasters."

PREHERESY.....didnt have sonic blaster's.

These are all great ideas if i wanted to do a Chaos Heresy EC Army

thanks for comments and remarks

I read Lucius Rules and there not horriable but in no means is he amazing.

Like i said earlier "This is Lucius 13th company" so for fluff.

My other List that works well.

Bile

6 enhanced squads of Marines

Each squad is enhanced

14 marines 1 champ 1 fist

FLUFF ARMY. I know it wont win but it's fun

Or

Abaddon (Fulgrim)
Chaos Terimes (Custodes) 4 all champs and Slannesh
5 X CSM (preheresy EC) 15 marines Champ and fist
3 Obils. Each a different unit

2000pts

ghostmaker wrote:

Typeline i do like your list it just isnt preheresy for me sorry. And I hate Lash.

actually it's 3 A. And there LD 10

tactics it's a inside joke.

K Orks. If in shooting range i'd sit still with 1 squad and get 30 shots off. ( I know they'd almost destory me in combat )

Abaddon count as fulgrim is only PREHERESY way I could show fulgrim off.

Him as a DP sucks and as a Lord haha.

These are all great ideas if i wanted to do a Chaos Heresy EC Army

A basic CSM has LD 9 and one base attack plus one from CCW/Pistol. Go read the Codex. DPs rock, sorry they are the best HQ the codex has. Lash is Emperor's Children stuff... hating it because it's good is kind of counter productive to the fluff thing.

And since the rest of your argument is 'It's pre-heresy!'. No Abbadon, no Lucius, no CSMs. If you really want to start putting together a Pre Heresy list, go buy the Space Marines Codex (or wait for the new one to come out) and some purple paint.

"I read Lucius Rules and there not horriable but in no means is he amazing."

youve got to be kidding me. 160 points. for a str4 pwep with 4 attacks. oh but he does hit you some more, if attack him.

no thats not a horrendous waste of points. not by a long shot. give him his drugs and demon weapon back, then hes worth 160.. he is quite possibly the worst special character (in relation to his points cost) in the whole game. now lets look at Kharn, for 5 more points he is better in so many ways, especially if hes charging.. 7 attacks hitting on 2s killing MEQs on 2s. hrm, who is more cost effective? id say kharn 8 days of the week.

my POST heresy EC army is mostly purple with pink shoulders/highlighting, keeping some aspect of their pre-heresy paint scheme, dont lecture me on my EC fluff.

Pre-Heresy, fulgrim didnt have the demon weapon yet (which is i suppose the reason you chose abaddon to represent him? hes got the demon-sword Drach'Nyen.. sp?) along with that for fluff as ive stated its nearly opposite along the character lines, abaddon has full and complete control over the weapon, where the weapon has full and complete control of fulgrim.

type is right, if you want to pull off a pre-heresy list, use C: SM and give the army some traits that would be associated with the EC.

Pre-Heresy, fulgrim didnt have the demon weapon yet

Yea he did it was right before his Fall.
The sword he took from the Laer that was a demon sword.

"now lets look at Kharn, for 5 more points he is better in so many ways, especially if hes charging.. 7 attacks hitting on 2s killing MEQs on 2s. hrm, who is more cost effective? id say kharn 8 days of the week."

That makes no sense you blasted me for taking Abaddon yet you say to tak kharn ? ?

AS for the contorl over the sword i believe it still wounds him on a 1 like always. (contorl Issue)


I know a BASIC CSM has 2 A and LD 9
There 3A on charge and there Champ which I include is LD 10

And since the rest of your argument is 'It's pre-heresy!'. No Abbadon, no Lucius, no CSM

So Lucius wasnt a PH EC Marine ? and Abbadon wasnt in PH makes since.

Lash is Emperor's Children stuff... hating it because it's good is kind of counter productive to the fluff thing.

I understand its there Heresy Fluff not preheresy though...

K with the DP Abaddon is better in every way..(consirding I wouldnt be taking lash)

dont lecture me on my PH EC Fluff ethier.
Sorry if it seems like i'm lecturing but i'm just repreating what i've said over and over it's annoying.

I dont want Lash and Noise Marines
Thats Heresy era.

I use CSM Rules cause those are the best one's for me to take. And keep to the old Legion days.

Heres a Loyalist List I made o and btw what'd you do with current loyalist to make EC

ADV- Trust Your Battle Brother & No Mercy No Respite
DIS- Eye to Eye , Death Before Dishonour (one i'll throw in just for gaks and Grins) Have Pride in your colours

Dred Assualt cannon tank hunter
6 squads of troops all nades and Vet Srg Fist -----there only like 23 pt marines ..

Master Power Sword

and then another 140pts left over

So yea what ever 23 pt marines / over 15pts marines

Chaos Marines are cheaper for a 15 man sqaud by 5 pts with all the same except FC

How is that better? ?

thanks have a good day.

I really don't give a damn on the fluff. It doesn't really matter that you are a super expert on it. You asked for advice on the army list. Now your just arguing and nitpicking. The 23 pt SMs are better than the 15 Pt CSM. They are fearless and are actually Pre Heresy Emperors Children. CSM are not prehesey anything. Using them because they they are "cheaper omg duh!!1! nub" is against the fluff and against common sense. If you defend the rest of your list with "DUDE THE FLUFF!" then stick with the fluff and use the SM and nothing Chaos. But I can't really give you any good advice on the SM list, good luck.

i never said take kharn, i was showing you just how big a waste of points lucius really is. lucius is 160, kharn is 165. essentially the same ammount of points, but kharn is so much better.

you dont have to make a marine a 23 point marine. you can outfit them to be 16 points. krak-grenades are a waste of points. true-grit is nice but its not a crazy amazing ability that every marine army should have.

you can easily make an "old legion" list using SM codex. full 10 man units with a srg, 10 man assault units sans jump packs, 10 man devestator units. it can be done. and is most definitely better than 6 squads of 15 CSM with no special/heavy weapons.

K I understand that you dont give a dam. Adn I did ask for your advice on a Preheresy Army and you made me a Heresy Army.

CSM are fine for it k they have Bolters Bolt pistol and CCW. There just being used for the PT efficent ness of them. k I much rather have 15 pt's over / 23pts.

How cant you use any good advice when I even made a loyalist list. ?

How are Grenades a waste ? ? how exactly.

K I understoud the Kharn one i was just saying you were vague.

Now your just arguing and nitpicking---and your basically being a prick k. I've Explained it's in the Title that i wanted to do Preheresy and you then went about making me a heresy list.

Then i made a LOYALIST list and you didnt give any ideas you just skipped over it.

Ztryder---I understand that and i made a Preheresy list usin Codex Marines.


But you now what else doesnt make sense alot of people using DA in a Chaos list or doing the Count as ....thats simply what i'm doing i'm not making them Chaotic but i'm making them using the old codex k i'll type another list tonite.

I do appecite what yall are saying.

I even made alist using the Codex Marines---but i'll make one later...k

Yall made good list if I were using Post Heresy..

I now and i didnt lecture you i'm just saying that yall have made a normal heresy list using Lash...

Thats not what i'm asking for.


CSM= (Legion Marines) Had more weapons and more barbaric tone to them in heresy. And as well used large formations to use them. (go to BOLS)

Obils=(Robots) Adpet Mechincus used robots.
Termies (custodes and or Fulgrim termies)
Chosen (Fulgrims bodyguard)

Thats my ideas/ reason and i'm converting each and every one of them.

i told you what i thought of your loyalist list. 23 point true-grit marines are unnecessary. 6 squads of 10 tac marines 3 squads of 10 assault marines (without jump packs) and 3 dev squads with 10 marines gets you your 90 marines. 30 of them have frag grenades along with BP/CCW. 60 of them have bolters, 12 of them can have special weapons, 18 can have heavy weapons. pretty decent start to your "legion-era" list using the loyalist dex. give them a chapter master and they are all LD10.

krak-grenades? str6+d6. so you need a 6 to hit (most of the time..) and then a 4 to glance AV10, cant hurt 13+. yes thats sure worth 2pts for each marine in your army.

DA in a chaos list is most definitly not against the fluff.. see: Fallen Angels and Cypher.

DA not my point forget about it.

K well i'll see how many points that would run me and i'll even play test.

What do you think for the Dev. squads ? ?

And the Krak isn't for AT it's for combat and cover and all the great stuff.

I'll point that army up then try a different Chaos "count as Army"

laz/plas in tac units. 2 missle launchers in dev units. if you max out your weapons the list runs way over 2k points, its 1350 for the 90 marines bare bones.

hahaha k thanks. I wouldnt take Plas Las in Tac but i would take las in dev. In 5th with out a doubt rockets suck in 5th ed.

I could also Take VET's 3 squads of them as well. 10 men each.

Nice i'll work on this list I can't wait tell new Codex.

Thanks i'll rewrite my CSM one and do a Codex one k thanks

why wouldnt you take laz/plas in tac? you save 20 points by takings a lascannon in a tac squad over dev squad. and you can split your shots if needed.. something you cant do with a dev unit.

3 naked vet squads will run the points up to around 1900 points with NO upgrades. at all. not even frag grenades. but you would have 120 marines on the table..

I'd just take Melta Fist in those squads and 2 lascannons in each Dev. Unit.

Well I tried it with DA codex that was a Failure before it started.

Was going to try Black Templers but there to few and not alot of Heavt weapon choices(to few Marines) I'll try again though.