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I was wondering what the consensus was of the dakka community regarding GW products. To me it seems like they have somewhat of a monopoly on miniature gaming and sell their goods for outrageous prices. Do you guys think the plastics, pewter and resin are really worth what we pay for them? What about the modeling supplies ($8 super glue?!?!)? And books? I'd love to see what you guys think and if the prices are justified.

Plastic kits feel less so, but the metal with the A-B-C-D-E-F levels of pricing is definitely overpriced. $17 for 1 special character mini, simply because in the game it's a special character? Gross.

Black Library stuff is nutty expensive too, though I think the new book market is to blame in general, with high prices for even paperbacks across the board. Stack "GeeDub Pricing" onto that and voila, $8 40k novels.

And over in the hand flamer thread was some discussion on the overpriced and underquality hobby supplies.

So ... yes, though the nice plastic kits with all the extra heads and bitz that we're getting aren't SO bad.

- Salvage

Boss_Salvage wrote:Plastic kits feel less so, but the metal with the A-B-C-D-E-F levels of pricing is definitely overpriced. $17 for 1 special character mini, simply because in the game it's a special character? Gross.

Black Library stuff is nutty expensive too, though I think the new book market is to blame in general, with high prices for even paperbacks across the board. Stack "GeeDub Pricing" onto that and voila, $8 40k novels.

And over in the hand flamer thread was some discussion on the overpriced and underquality hobby supplies.

So ... yes, though the nice plastic kits with all the extra heads and bitz that we're getting aren't SO bad.

- Salvage

Yeah I forgot about how they price specifically for point costs. Immortals and Pariahs anyone?

I think it depends on what you are looking at.

I think plastic models are appropriately priced for the most part, pewter on the other hand tends to be pretty expensive for what you get. Heck, back in the day you could get a squd of lead Holing Banshees for $15 and Rhino's were two to a box! The models now are far more impressive but I still feel that pewter is overpriced for the most part.

Resin? Rediculously expensive but if you've got the expendable income by all means spend it I guess...

The only GW hobby supplies I buy is paint. Everything else, from x-acto knives to glue can be bought somewere else for a much cheaper (and more reasonable) price.

GW is not a monopoly. They are simply the biggest and most well known of the companies that sell war games.

Most if not all war games are over priced. GW is the trendsetter in this regard. The other companies follow GW's lead. Whether that is because GW could bury them if it came to a price war or something else is up for debate.

Absolutely they're overpriced. But it seems odd they're price structure. When i saw that the baneblade was being made for 100 bucks! How awesome would it be if they could produce a plastic thunderhawk for 150! Oddly-the small kits seem too expensive. 10 man SM tac squad is 35 bucks, 3.50 a figure. That's more than the pewters use to cost. However the advancements which have been made in the injection mold process are producing plastic minis which are far superior to the pewter back in the day.

Overall the cost of the figure is up, but I don't see a major problem with it (except maybe 50 bucks for 5 terminators!)

Their tools are way over priced. But their paints are competitive. And that glue?! the bottle isn't even half full when you buy it (seriously, take a look at it). Go with Zap CA++ glue

Crimson Devil wrote:GW is not a monopoly. They are simply the biggest and most well known of the companies that sell war games.

Most if not all war games are over priced. GW is the trendsetter in this regard. The other companies follow GW's lead. Whether that is because GW could bury them if it came to a price war or something else is up for debate.

Well I was using the technical economic term for monopoly, which is when a firm has a huge market share of a market (miniatures) and is able to, as you put it, set trends.

I think they're overpriced on the additional hobby stuff more than anything else. Why spend $12 on a knife when you can buy an xacto for $3? Why spend $12 on 3 files when you can get a file for $.75 that works just as well. On these things, and their flock, sand, etc. they're just going to get as much money from people who don't know that alternatives exist - usually kiddies.

Boss_Salvage wrote:Plastic kits feel less so, but the metal with the A-B-C-D-E-F levels of pricing is definitely overpriced. $17 for 1 special character mini, simply because in the game it's a special character? Gross.

I disagree with you on this point, and here's why. Most special characters have more detail than most normal models. Compare Skulltaker to any given bloodletter. The model with more detail almost certainly takes more resources (in this case, sculptor hours) to produce. Let's be somewhat conservative and say that skulltaker took twice as long to produce as your generic bloodletter.

Now, consider demand. The extreme gamer might buy three skulltakers (one for a chariot, one for a juggernaut, one on foot). Whereas, they're going to need to buy multiple bloodletters in order to have an army. Clearly, they're going to sell more of the model that took less resources to produce.

That means that the margins on the character model have to be higher than the margins on the rank&file guy. It's an oversimplification to believe that price is equated to points-cost, although that is somewhat true. The more points something costs, the less of them you'll need in your army, and therefore the margins on the item need to be higher. You figure they're selling at least ten bloodletters for each skulltaker, and that's probably an underestimation.

Are they overpriced compared to the overall miniatures market? I don't think so. I've bought minis from Freebooter, Hasslefree, Reaper, and other companies (as well as random things from the CMON shop, and $10-$20 for a well-sculpted character figure isn't out of line with these other companies prices at all.

This thread makes me laugh!

Ha ha ha.

Of course they are.

GW's rules and models cost as much as 3-5 times more than the equivalent from alternative producers.

However, GW manage to sell their stock which means they have broadly achieved the "market clearing price" where demand is available to absorb the supply at that price.

This is because some unique factors associated with GW games -- the fluff and the designs -- are highly desireable and cannot be copied by rivals.

Consequently GW products cannot be said in economic terms to be overpriced.

I've been complaining about GW prices ever since Rogue Trader. Sadly, now those 2 Rhinos per boxset for $20 and 30 Beakies for $30 are considered great deals. Can you believe you used to get 8 metal Terminators for $25? I have an old metal Dreadnought that I bought for $7...RETAIL (and I thought that was expensive).

Now, don't get me wrong, I understand that today's sculpts are way better than the old ones. I also understand that they went from Zero stores in the U.S. to hundreds of stores in the U.S. in that amount of time...so I understand that they are reinvesting their profits. But still...when 30 Tactical Marines now cost $105 at retail, it really pains me to think about how much this hobby now costs. I'll take 30 original Beakies for $30 any day over 30 Tac Marines for $105, even if they only come with Flamers and Missile Launchers.

The biggest crime, so to speak, IMHO, is not the new sculpts, though. It's the OLD metal figures that have gone up in price like crazy for no apparent reason. Ghazkull Thraka is now absolutely insane. Azrael is another. And anyone remember the inflation of the old metal Wraithlord from its original release up until it got retired by the plastic version? THESE ARE THE SAME SCULPTS.

However, I will give GW props for what will likely be included in the 5th edition box set. That is a good deal, even by Rogue Trader standards. And I'll praise them for the Baneblade (compare to the old Armorcast Shadowsword which was $80 at retail (I know because I have one) and an inferior sculpt). I'm finally glad that they seem to be passing on the savings to the customers at last.

Boss_Salvage wrote:Black Library stuff is nutty expensive too, though I think the new book market is to blame in general, with high prices for even paperbacks across the board. Stack "GeeDub Pricing" onto that and voila, $8 40k novels.

$8 is about right for the average-sized paperback these days. So I'm not sure where you get the additional GW pricing from. In addition, BL have been re-releasing (pretty damn quickly in most cases) trios of books for $10-$12, which is obviously a 50% or more saving. So their pricing for books is actually pretty damn good.

As for the rest of it, yes, I think GW stuff is vastly overpriced (some stuff more than others - $120 for three brushes was ridiculous), but who cares? Buy it or don't. Vote with your wallet.

Redbeard wrote:I think they're overpriced on the additional hobby stuff more than anything else. Why spend $12 on a knife when you can buy an xacto for $3? Why spend $12 on 3 files when you can get a file for $.75 that works just as well. On these things, and their flock, sand, etc. they're just going to get as much money from people who don't know that alternatives exist - usually kiddies.

Boss_Salvage wrote:Plastic kits feel less so, but the metal with the A-B-C-D-E-F levels of pricing is definitely overpriced. $17 for 1 special character mini, simply because in the game it's a special character? Gross.

I disagree with you on this point, and here's why. Most special characters have more detail than most normal models. Compare Skulltaker to any given bloodletter. The model with more detail almost certainly takes more resources (in this case, sculptor hours) to produce. Let's be somewhat conservative and say that skulltaker took twice as long to produce as your generic bloodletter.

Now, consider demand. The extreme gamer might buy three skulltakers (one for a chariot, one for a juggernaut, one on foot). Whereas, they're going to need to buy multiple bloodletters in order to have an army. Clearly, they're going to sell more of the model that took less resources to produce.

That means that the margins on the character model have to be higher than the margins on the rank&file guy. It's an oversimplification to believe that price is equated to points-cost, although that is somewhat true. The more points something costs, the less of them you'll need in your army, and therefore the margins on the item need to be higher. You figure they're selling at least ten bloodletters for each skulltaker, and that's probably an underestimation.

Are they overpriced compared to the overall miniatures market? I don't think so. I've bought minis from Freebooter, Hasslefree, Reaper, and other companies (as well as random things from the CMON shop, and $10-$20 for a well-sculpted character figure isn't out of line with these other companies prices at all.

*unscrews top of gascan*

Howsabout Eldrad? 20$ for an old, old sculpt that is 2 dimensional, and really not much more detailed than a normal Eldar. Or Imperial Assassins? These are old sculpts that recouped their cost a looooooooong time ago. Comparing some of the character models which GW sells for $17-20 to some of the stuff available for 4-6$ from Reaper Warlord or other companies, you really see some inflationary pricing there.

However, not everything is like that. I generally feel like there new vehicle kits are worth the price, even the massive (and massively expensive) Baneblade. If something is really good quality, it's easier to justify the high price tag. Repackaging ancient figs at hugely inflated prices, less so. The new demon boxes come out to being $2.20 for a really nice (albeit plastic) fig, and that's not too hard to swallow. I still think an individual peweter trooper should cost $3, $4 for a special weapon or jump trooper. You could probably add a dollar to that and be in the realm of fairness, but $6 for a cadian with a plasma gun is retardedly over-priced.

One need only look around at what other companies charge for figures of similar size and quality to see that GW has taken advantage of their dedicated gamers by raising prices so much in the last few.

However, their are also some kits that are really good values. The LOTR sculpts are generally really, really nice, and the basic plastics give you something like 25 guys for $24 bucks, and the poses and sculpting are quite good. That's a good value, as are battallions/battle forces.

In General, I think they are overpriced on miniatures. Hobby supplies are an absolute joke, and only someone who hates his own wallet would put it through the abuse of buying GW hobby supplies. Even paints are packaged in small quantities, though the new paints are quite excellent in terms of quality, so somewhat less overpriced.

GW? Overpriced? I ask you, friends, is the sky still blue? Does the Earth still revolve around the Sun? Does Brian Adams still suck? Surely these things are as constant as the tide. So too, is the level at which GW gouges us, their loyal customer.

Hey, don't get me wrong, I love GW, I love the stuff they put out, but man, they charge more than any company has a right to. I'm not complaining, I'm happy to shell out my hard earned presidents. But I atleast recognize that they shouldn't be charging near what they do.

But then again, I play Krieg, so I'm not in my right mind when it comes to money...

This can't be answered in such a simplistic poll, as GW makes many products, some of which are reasonably priced, and others which are not. Let me begin this whole post with a qualifier:

Games Workshop Products are definitely overpriced outside the US market, since the rest of the world is paying anywhere from 20-50% premium over already high US prices.

In general - here's my take on GW's pricing: Are the following overpriced?

Here are the "No, GW product is fairly priced" items:

Warhammer/40k/LOTR metal kits: These kits are about the same price as their competitors.

Large Warhammer/LOTR plastic kits: There are no competitors producing equivalents

LOTR plastic infantry: These are a fantastic value, with decent sculpting.

Warhammer/40k starter plastic kits: Skull Pass / Battle for McCragge and Battle for 5th Edition offer good value for the dollar

Paints: While much more expensive the craft paints, Citadel Colour paints offer a good range and are close in price to their competitors.

Terrain: GW makes nice, easily constructed and durrable terrain - outside of trees, these are fairly priced. Citadel trees are horrendously overpriced.

Here are the "Yes GW product is overpriced" items:

Warhammer/40k Infantry: These are approaching the cost of metal figures on a per figure basis - with a tradeoff where detail (undercuts) is sacrificed for posability in 40k, and ease of ranking in Fantasy.

Rulebooks: Games Workshop rulebooks are grossly overpriced - their competitors are able to publish full colour books and retail them at a lower price point... often 30-50% cheaper.

Warhammer Vehicle Kits: Vehicle kits are arbitrarily priced based on battlefield performance and points cost, regardless of size or complexity, and are far more expensive than non-gaming equivalents, on the magnitude of 200-300% more expensive - e.g. Star Wars kits and small 1/144 scale Gundam kits vs equivalents: Tanks and Dreadnoughts.

Citadel Modelling Tools: These can be up to 500% more expensive than competitor's products.

Citadel Modelling Supplies: These are also overpriced for what you get.

What bothers me is how they purposely price high point units high, and low point units low just so everyone is forced to spend ~500+ for a 2k point army.

The new burnas/lootas kits are great, but way overpriced.

*begins hovis music*

Back in t'day, when I were just a lad, a you could get a box of 20 figures for £10, a loaf of bread were tuppence and people paid you to take petrol. But it weren't all good, we had to work 25 hours a day, 8 days a week down at t'mill, walking 18 miles to and from t'job, uphill both ways. When we got home (which were a box by the side of a road) our dad would give us a good hiding and we were glad of it, not like these bloody kids today. Don't know they're born.

/sepia tinted memories.

You forgot the snow and ice.

Compared to Hornby Railway collecting, NO, GW isn't overpriced.

I picked up a lootas set recently (for a necromunda gangers conversion) and it was, I thought, not bad value.
(admittedly, I did not pay full retail for it).
11 heavy (more or less) weapons for the price and a few ork boys tossed in as well.

Just like I picked up the devs set for upgrading my squads to all have a heavy weapon (you get 8 in the box).

Some of the other sets, though are priced a little too steeply. So much so, that many oz gamers mail order from the US for the stuff.

GW may have some overpricing, but I look at it this way.

If you are scraping by and struggling to buy your next unit of figs. Maybe playing games isn't what you should be doing.

All the quibbling over prices is useless. You realize there are other avenues to getting figures/models, right? Buying used models is a viable option, also.

Those who pay full retail are foolish!

My 2 cents worth

Lootas overpriced?

You get 4 big guns, 4 burnas, a Mek, plus more that I can remember off hand.

Dark Angels special characters can be reproduced with all the bits off new sprues. many options. May not look same, but you can justify a conversion.

I agree metal specials at $15 each is awful.

We all spend what we can afford and then there's some who spend what they can't afford. There is where the bitching comes in, usually

GW plastics are quite overpriced, actually.

The prices of metal was driven up for 5+ years.

This is no coincidence.

Plastic injection molding is expensive to get into (that's where you and GW's high prices come in) and has driven companies out of business...and nearly taken GW out as well.

However, once you are "in" plastic injection molding, your costs drop dramatically.

So let's see:

Prices remain the same.

No longer metal, so alot less detail.

Metal costs more than plastic to the manufacturer by a huge amount.

Once you've got the mold done and are making plastic kits, you're basically printing money as the costs is pennies. Yes, pennies.

No one cares about the "design costs" of a brand new car.

Still costs them 25 grand to manufacture a 30k car.

Costs GW 18 cents to make a smurf kit of 5 marines.

Gee. What a markup.

Amazing they are still struggling to stay in business.

If GW was a supermarket, no one would know anything about it.

They'd have gone out of business the day they opened.

(In case you don't know, supermarkets are one of the most cutthroat businesses...only selling gas [at the station level] is worse.)

hahahahahahahaaha yes

Old Man Ultramarine wrote:Lootas overpriced?

You get 4 big guns, 4 burnas, a Mek, plus more that I can remember off hand.

For the same price as 16 boyz were about 4 years ago. You do get the guns and burnas in the box, but only enough ork parts to make 5 models (including the mek). It's that classic GW thing of making more points in game = more cash for the models. But, c'est la vie.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say no. Think about it, if the prices went down what's the first thing that would follow it? I can promise you it's not their salaries, the quality of the models would go down.

What's the alternative anyway? FW? They're even higher priced!

I'm earning below the poverty line and I can still afford more models than I can find time to paint. So, no, they must not be overpriced.

I don't touch their modeling supplies, though (except of green stuff).

the strange thin whit the modelintools is that there knife is not that over prist I saw the same knife an a store that cost aliest 1€more ( thats 1.4 dollar ) modelin knife's whit grips like that are expensif

Kilkrazy wrote:GW's rules and models cost as much as 3-5 times more than the equivalent from alternative producers.

Really? Do you play Warmachine / Hordes? Rackham? Infinity? How about a Flames Army using Battlefront minis?

Their models and armies aren't any cheaper than the GW equivalent minis.

The only minatures you're gonna find at a lower price (at least that I can think of right now) are D&D, Hero Clix and the like. It's a different kind of hobby al together.

I'd just like to know what store the people who said 'no' shop in, as I'd like to pick up a pair of rose-tinted glasses for myself.

BYE

Aeddon wrote:I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say no. Think about it, if the prices went down what's the first thing that would follow it? I can promise you it's not their salaries, the quality of the models would go down.

What's the alternative anyway? FW? They're even higher priced!

You've got two alternatives.

1. Play GW rules but use non-GW models such as the new plastic historicals for Fantasy and various different SF and modern ranges for 40K. This works fine so long as (A) you like the GW rules, (B) you're not fussed about the GW models and (C) you don't want to play in GW shops and official tournaments.

2. Play something else entirely, like Ancients or Napoleonics, which are much cheaper.