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I got bored waiting for the new Guard Codex to come out, so I made a new one. I attached it to this thread because it is a little long to post. Thanks ahead of time for those who read it. If was to describe this Codex as a math equation it would be: Crazy multiplied by fun = New Guard Codex. Anyway, let me know what you think. Here were my main goals in the codex:

1. Increase Numbers: To a Guard player, the only thing that matters is wave upon wave of troops and/or vehicles. Therefore, platoons ought to be used instead of squads, and vehicle squadrons instead of vehicles. This also has the benefit of allowing a Guard player to field 2,000 points on the battlefield. (I use my entire force organization chart by 1,750 pts).

2. Simplify and limit Advisors and command squads: this ensures more guardsmen on the battlefield rather than cramming all one’s points into only a few powerhouse guardsmen (I’ve seen a 10 man guardsman squad cost 500pts due to heavily equipped advisors).

3. Simplify doctrines: I have taken the 35 possible Imperial Guard doctrines and added 9 new ones. Then with a few simple changes, I eliminated every doctrine without eliminating any the options Guard players had with them.

4. Simplified Vehicles: In the previous codex, there were 6 types of Vehicles with 6 different stat lines to memorize. I included 13 types of vehicles but simplified them in such a way that the player need only remember 4 vehicle stat-lines.

5. Simplify Troops: in the previous codex, there were 18 different troop-type stat-lines listed. I have increased the variety of available troop-types but simplified them in such a way that the player need only remember 6 troop-type stat-lines.

6. Simplify Guard weapons: not only does this help distinguish the Imperial Guard from other Imperial armies (particularly Space Marines), it greatly simplified the Imperial Guard codex. There were 25 weapon stat-lines to memorize in the last codex. I simplified this to 15. Although eliminating these weapons simplified and clarified the Guard’s rules, the primary purpose of doing this was to improve the “theme” of the Guard.

Wow, you put a lot of work into this, and I'll have to give it a closer read. Kudos to you sir, for putting so much work into our beloved IG.

At first blush, doing a skim-through, there are some things I like and don't like.

The idea of platoon-wide upgrades... yes please.
Sentinel or tank officers ...great idea!
Rending or FNP guardsmen... no thank you.

With the exception of sniper rifles, I just never, ever want a guardsman to have these rules. After all, you've removed multiple wounds from officers because it doesn't make sense background wise, (with compared to say, a space marine) so why would breathing a gas suddenly make you tougher than a space marine? This is just my opinion, of course, but those are just two rules I don't want in my army, sheerly for the feel of it.

Other things I thought were interesting - the officer rules, while intriguing, would I think become difficult in game terms. Remembering which officer went with which platoon and so could move between squads would be rather confusing, I think.

I like your fresh take on Ogryns, very interesting. The problem I have with taking them has not been the idea behind them, but rather the models/rules, however. Still, I like the idea of Ogryn platoons, and the Ogryn upgrade for a Sergeant would be very cool.

I liked the heavy russ -malcador *cough*
if you altered the FNP rules id love to take chem inhalers, the idea of guardsmen geting so wasted to forget/ ignore the horrors of the 41st centuary just apeals to me to the extreme. maybe having it a one use per game and cheaper would level it out.

the rest can be a little overpowered like the hellhound

ssgtdanclay wrote:1. Increase Numbers: To a Guard player, the only thing that matters is wave upon wave of troops and/or vehicles.

I agree that line squads should make the bulk of the army. More troopers is highly preferable to more expensive troopers with better stats.

ssgtdanclay wrote:This also has the benefit of allowing a Guard player to field 2,000 points on the battlefield. (I use my entire force organization chart by 1,750 pts).

You've totally lost me with this. Even if you used 25 point Cyclops for FA, 1850 isn't nearly enough to run out of slots.

ssgtdanclay wrote:2. Simplify and limit Advisors and command squads: this ensures more guardsmen on the battlefield rather than cramming all one’s points into only a few powerhouse guardsmen (I’ve seen a 10 man guardsman squad cost 500pts due to heavily equipped advisors).

I almost didn't bother reading anything after this. I don't think it's even possible to make a single squad cost 500 points. Line squad+ Commissar+ Priest+ Psycher = less than 150 points before upgrades. 350+ points in gear is neither a smart use of points nor a powerhouse. Puff Puff Give

ssgtdanclay wrote:3. Simplify doctrines: I have taken the 35 possible Imperial Guard doctrines and added 9 new ones. Then with a few simple changes, I eliminated every doctrine without eliminating any the options Guard players had with them.

They were already pretty simple. Ignore over 1/2 of them and then pick 5 you like. It's theorized (wishlist) that IG:5 will contain some of the platoon doctrines as upgrades in the unit entry. Hope it turns out so.

Flagg07 wrote:Even if you used 25 point Cyclops for FA, 1850 isn't nearly enough to run out of slots.

This is my actual army. I used 1500pts of it to defeat a 3000pt space marine force.

HQ: 103pts
Junior Officer with Cameleoline: 50pts x1
Kroot Master Shaper Mercenary Ally with power weapon: 53pts x1

Elite: 330pts
5 Vets with Cameleoline, x3 Plasma, x1 Lascannon: 110pts x3

Fast: 345pts
Hellhound: 115pts x3

Heavy: 445pts
Leman Russ: 145pts x2
Demolisher: 155pts x1

Troops: 530pts
5 Grenadiers, x2 Plasma: 70pts x3
5 Inquisitorial Storm Trooper Allies, x2 melta, rhino: 120pts x2
10 Kroot Mercs, allied: 80 pts x1

= only 1753pts, while leaving me desperately wanting more slots on my force organization chart.

Flagg07 wrote:I don't think it's even possible to make a single squad cost 500 points.

This was the Command Section of my Tanith First and Only:
HQ Squad:
Heroic Senior Officer: 70pts
-PowerFist 20pts
-Plasma Pistol 10pts
-Carapiece 5pts
Priest 40pts
-Eviscerator 25pts
Psyker 12pts
-Force WPN 25pts
-Honorifica 25pts
Commissar 40pts
-Power Fist 20pts
-Plasma Pistol 10pts
-Carapiece 5pts
Medic Vet 11pts
Colonel Gaunt 75pts
Camoleoline 10pts
Hardened Fighters 15pts
Chimera with smoke 88pts
506pts.

When combined with my holy relic, this 9-man unit had 27 WS5 Powerfist attacks, which re-rolled all misses; plus 7 WS5, STR4 power weapon attacks; plus 17 regular attacks = 51 attacks total. Furthermore, I exploited the multiple armor rule to allow these 9 men to take 13 wounds before I had to remove a single powerfist model. In other words, this unit was invincible in close-combat. When I used my Chimera line to guarantee an assault I won every close-combat engagement I fought with it.

If you want a really expensive command squad: exchange Yarrick for Gaunt and then max out the squad’s wargear = 700+pt command squad…although this unit would be a waste of points as it doesn’t maximize Gaunt’s special rule’s nor the multiple armor rule like I had designed my command squad to do.


Thanks for judging before even reading the codex

ssgtdanclay wrote:Thanks for judging before even reading the codex

My pleasure. Based on your army lists above, I'm quite sure I was correct in my initial assessment.

ssgtdanclay wrote:This is my actual army. I used 1500pts of it to defeat a 3000pt space marine force.

If you say so.

ssgtdanclay wrote:HQ: 103pts
Junior Officer with Light Infantry: 50pts x1
Kroot Master Shaper Mercenary Ally with power weapon: 53pts x1

Elite: 330pts
5 Vets with Light Infantry, x3 Plasma, x1 Lascannon: 110pts x3

Fast: 345pts
Hellhound: 115pts x3

Heavy: 445pts
Leman Russ: 145pts x2
Demolisher: 155pts x1

Troops: 530pts
5 Grenadiers, x2 Plasma: 70pts x3
5 Inquisitorial Storm Trooper Allies, x2 melta, rhino: 120pts x2
10 Kroot Mercs, allied: 80 pts x1

= only 1753pts, while leaving me desperately wanting more slots on my force organization chart.

This isn't an IG army, it's an IG army with a significant amount of allies. Your point about running out of FOC slots applies to this army. It does not apply to a standard IG list. Had your OP been about a hybrid IG list such as this, I wouldn't have commented about the FOC.

Remember this gem of insight? "1. Increase Numbers: To a Guard player, the only thing that matters is wave upon wave of troops and/or vehicles."
8 squads of 5 men is nothing close to a wave of troops.

ssgtdanclay wrote:This was the Command Section of my Tanith First and Only:
HQ Squad:
Heroic Senior Officer: 70pts
-PowerFist 20pts
-Plasma Pistol 10pts
-Carapiece 5pts
Priest 40pts
-Eviscerator 25pts
Psyker 12pts
-Force WPN 25pts
-Honorifica 25pts
Commissar 40pts
-Power Fist 20pts
-Plasma Pistol 10pts
-Carapiece 5pts
Medic Vet 11pts
Colonel Gaunt 75pts
Camoleoline 10pts
Hardened Fighters 15pts
Chimera with smoke 88pts
506pts.

I exploited the multiple armor rule

Um, ok. I'd love to face this army with any of mine. Regardless of how killy you believe this single unit to be, the amount of points wasted on it significantly detracts from the killing abilities of the rest of your army. This is neither a good unit nor a rule. It's simply a gimmick that might work once against the right enemy and I still don't see that. As I said, you couldn't make a HQ worth 500 points. Your example added a 2nd HQ choice, and a Special Character at that. Then there's the fact that the Chimera doesn't make this unit any more CC oriented. Yup, 500 wasted points.

I bring you back to one of the few things I agreed with you on. "1. Increase Numbers: To a Guard player, the only thing that matters is wave upon wave of troops and/or vehicles." This 500 point unit really hurts this doesn't it?

I'll roll it up so you understand where I'm coming from. You stated that troops were incredibly important to the IG and I agree whole heartedly with you. Then you show an armylist with only 50 troopers and 8/9 squads are only 5 men strong. This, as well as your chubby CHQ from hell, go against what you say. Thanks, I'll continue to avoid your rules as they'll be just as bad as GW's, but unofficial.

That list is horrendous, and goes completely against the stated aim of the OP's Codex to increase the amount of men in it.

Seriously, Grenadiers, Inquis Storm Troopers and Kroot? That's not a Guard army...

And I've read through the Codex, it can basically be summed up as these two thoughts:

1. Simplify everything even further than Jervis does.
2. If it's a unique item either give it to everyone, or cut it completely.

BYE

Nice Agreed

Thanks for the summation.

ssgtdanclay wrote:
This was the Command Section of my Tanith First and Only:
HQ Squad:
Heroic Senior Officer: 70pts
-PowerFist 20pts
-Plasma Pistol 10pts
-Carapiece 5pts
Priest 40pts
-Eviscerator 25pts
Psyker 12pts
-Force WPN 25pts
-Honorifica 25pts
Commissar 40pts
-Power Fist 20pts
-Plasma Pistol 10pts
-Carapiece 5pts
Medic Vet 11pts
Colonel Gaunt 75pts
Camoleoline 10pts
Hardened Fighters 15pts
Chimera with smoke 88pts
506pts.

Although it makes for a very cute exercise in fun-building, having a Chimera labeled '500 points' is going to get you annihilated in just about any game with competent players. This squad is a horrible point sink, with the added negative that 1 S6 AP4 blast wipes out all your guys from double toughness instant death. Slow footsloggers (no assaulting out of chimera = fail) with little to no armor at T3, this squad will never, ever make its points back.

A lot of people seem to be missing the point of my posts. First, I didn’t post that Tanith Command squad because it was a GOOD fighting unit (it is strong, but it is NOT good); I posted that squad because Flagg07 said, “I don’t think it’s even possible to make a single squad cost 500 points.” I was simply demonstrating that it is very much possible and that Flagg07 is either bad at math or has no ingenuity. I could have posted a 700pts command squad, but I instead chose to post one which I have actually used in battle. However, there are very few circumstances in which this command squad actually works. You have to know exactly what your opponent is fielding and how he is planning on using his army. And even then it is a huge risk. But on those rare occasions that it actually does work…well, it’s hilarious. In any tournament, that Tanith command squad would get annihilated, and the army too. I made that command squad to surprise my pal who loves using huge squads of powerfisting termies. …and I won that fight.

Secondly, the army I posted IS good, at least for my style of play. That list has annihilated every thing and everyone I’ve fought. Although, I play 1500pts, so I drop the kroot and storm troopers, max out my vet squads and mount my grenadiers in chimeras. When I do this, it only has 2 weaknesses (one of which doesn’t apply to tournament armies); the second weakness is ALWAYS overlooked, which is why I always win. If you can tell me what its weakness is, I’ll congratulate you as being the first one to figure it out. (Hint: the weakness is not “staying power.” The way I’ve designed the force, every additional foot-slogger beyond what I already have selected only serves to weaken the force by slowing now the vehicles.) Although, I do admit, I’ve never tried this force against Eldar, and 5th edition gives it a new weakness (only 3 units of 5 troops). This new weakness shouldn’t affect the force too much because my enemies usually average around 0-1 squads remaining by turn 6, and I always have vehicles to contest any objectives held by the enemy…thus turning the game over to victory points…in which case I’ll win anyway. …but we’ll see…things might change when the new Guard Codex comes out.

But my point wasn’t whether my force was a good list; my point was to prove that Flagg07 is bad at math. He said, “1850pts isn’t enough to run out of slots.” Obviously it is. In fact, I can run out of slots using only 1170pts, and I only use units listed in the current Guard Codex. This should be clear to anyone with a Guard Codex, a calculator and half-a-brain. If you lack one of these things, let me know, and I’ll post the list to help you out. I only posted the above list because it is one that I use, and I sure wish I could have another fast, heavy or elites slot… (I did notice I made a mistake…my units use cameleoline, not light infantry…I’ll fix that…).

Lastly, if you can't figure out these things (like Flagg07), you should probably post "noob" by your name in big black letters to help the rest of us out. Thanks.

ssgtdanclay the noob wrote:He said, “1850pts isn’t enough to run out of points.”

Nope, I didn't say that. I said you wouldn't run out of FOC slots in 1850. Ofcourse, I was under the impression that you were making viable lists. I had no idea you were going to choose such wasteful options. Explain this to me Mr. Mathematician... your 500+ point HQ of doom was actually 2 HQ selections. 1 (CHQ) + 1 (special Character) = 2. Yup, your example failed to prove your point.

Let's see, got the codex, Army Builder to do the math for me and enough brain power to post. I've shown your posts to be wrong/ineffective trash up to now. Show me how you fill 2 HQ, 3 Elite, 6 troop, 3 FA and 3 heavy in 1850 with IG and I'll show you a crappy army list that will be laughed at by 12 year olds and dominated by dollies. That said, and throwing effectiveness out the window (like you did with your examples), enlighten me with your full FOC at 1850.


Do you really think calling someone a noob makes sense considering you joined 6 days ago? Try again

Here's the problem I've got reading your posts "Ssgt", I get the distinct impression that you play almost exclusively against 1-2 of your buddies who also run small elite armies almost exclusively. Your tiny squad size and emphasis on AP2, plus your assertion that you've never played against Eldar (ever? wtf?) and have a friend who favors massive terminator squads pretty well solidifies that impression in my mind.

Now, roll that all together, and what you've done is created a plasma heavy anti-MEQ list. A list that would be both fluffier, and more versatile, if you had just run Last Chancers with drop troop hardened vets.

But whatever, I'm sure your Sun Tzu-like existence brings you victory in all your buddies' basements, and everybody can only sit around screaming 'WTFFFFF' and pulling out their hair as their 750 point, 10 man Wolf Guard Terminator squads get owned by 8 plas shots.

Flagg07-
First, you said "a single squad". You didn't say anything about slots on the FoC.

Second, if we are comparing posting ability, then of course I'm a noob. But we were comparing math skills or cognitive abilities, that would make you the noob.

Third, I already gave you my list. Simply because you don't like it doesn't mean it can handle itself on the battlefield. I'd like to see the army list you play.

Fourth, we're off topic. If you don't have any sugestions to contribute to the threat, then stop posting.

Fifth, I'm attaching a new Codex. I made a few changes based on some of the suggestions people gave me. Thanks to everyone who posted suggestions. I added some HQ support vehicles. I also added sevitors to Officer Armory. I changed some Grenadier options around to include bolt weapons. I modified the shotguns to include two more types of ammo options. I added multi-lasers, but not in the way people will probably like. Best of all, I had a little fun with Ogryn berserkers.


Nathonicus -
Sorry, I didn't know how to fix the rending rule. I figured it only works when the psyker does, and with his lower LD, that would only be about 50% of the time. That means maybe 2 rounds of shooting. Since rending only works on a 6, that equals about 4 rending lasguns shots per game. At +25pts for the psyker, I didn't feel rending was too bad. But maybe I'm wrong; I haven't used rending (I am a Guard player after all). Any sugestions?

Glowgos -
Thanks for the support. The heavy Russ was just too fun to leave out...earthshaker and all...hehe.

H.B.M.C -
Yes, the list I posted does go against the stated aim of the OP's Codex... But that was why I included it as my stated aim: by increasing the effectiveness of the common trooper squad, the common trooper squad would be chosen much more often than the currently much more effective heavy, elite, and fast attact options in the codex. That would put more troopers on the battlefield. By including vehicles squadrons, it would give treadheads the options of including more of his tanks... Guard player = Quantity over quality. Any Guard player who believes Quality is even remotely important should trade his lasgun in for a bolter, paint his armor blue, post edited --yakface

Post removed as it only contains remarks designed to illict a negative response.


--yakface

Ssgtdanclancy,

Whenever you post homebrew rules you have to be prepared for people to dislike the very core ideas you're building your list upon.

In addition, since they are your own rules as opposed to official rules you have to count on the fact that people will have varying degrees of interest in your work; some may read the first page, the first ten pages or the whole thing.

You're putting out your work to the public for feedback and when people give you that feedback to chastise them for judging before reading is only going to give further incentive for them to attack your work (as this thread has shown).

If you don't like someone's feedback I highly suggest you thank them for their input and then move on.


With that said, Flagg07 you've gone beyond any level of acceptable critique and hit the realm of insult with your last post.

This game of whether or not the OP is able to win with 'X' list or not is utterly pointless and entirely irrelevant to his actual army list. If you can't return to providing actual constructive criticism then I suggest you prohibit yourself from posting in this thread anymore as any further insults will indeed result in punitive action.

Aww! I wanted to see what he said.



BYE