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Hey guys,

I was looking at the PDF on Privateer Press's site for their upcoming releases. Their prices are really getting out of hand. I love Warmachine and Hordes, but I can't believe some of the new costs. The Khador Character warjack "Drago" is listed at $59.99. That is completely insane. I know it is a very dynamic model and all, but a regular Berserker jack is only $25 currently. How can a character model of the same type, even with his additional rules and new sculpt warrant a $35 increase in price?

What are your thoughts on this current massive increase in price? I don't want to start some huge flame war about GW vs. PP or anything, just an honest hobbyist take on this escalation in costs (yes, bad pun intended).

This is neither news nor rumour. Perhaps there is a more appropriate place to post this?

Perhaps a Warmachine and Hordes discussion area?

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/forums/show/27.page

Well, it is news to me!

I can only wish that it was a "false rumor"!

JHall wrote:Hey guys,

I was looking at the PDF on Privateer Press's site for their upcoming releases. Their prices are really getting out of hand. I love Warmachine and Hordes, but I can't believe some of the new costs. The Khador Character warjack "Drago" is listed at $59.99. That is completely insane. I know it is a very dynamic model and all, but a regular Berserker jack is only $25 currently. How can a character model of the same type, even with his additional rules and new sculpt warrant a $35 increase in price?

The extra $35 is to not have to deal with the ridiculous ball joint on one foot to support the entire Bezerker model.

I'll give you three guesses as to the last model I assembled for my Khador army.

I consider it news. These are very steep increases that will impact the shape of the game and also how people approach the hobby. If it should be in Discussions that is fine. There is enough other stuff in the News and Rumors thread that can be considered much less news worthy than this, so I am not sure what the big deal is.

That is a decision for a MOD, and last time I checked Pixel, you were not one. I don't see why you need to police the forum.

Well, price increases are always bad, obviously.

I don't think much more can be said without alot of sour grapes being made known.

I am however glad I bought everything I need already for my everblight.

This certainly wont help me make a circle force, but the nice thing is that I love proxy models and there are tons of those out there that would suit circle.

I honestly think the days of "Metal is the best, plastic is for p^%@ys" mentality that PP espouses is rapidly drawing to an end.

Thus it begins, the slow slide of PP becoming just like GW.

Baby steps at first, but steps none the less...

Hellfury, I agree entirely. I wouldn't be surprised at all if we see some plastics in the pipeline soon from PP. Time will tell.

There are some really nice new models coming out that I would love to get. But at $60 for Drago, he will not take the field in my Khador army unless I can get a sweet deal.

Also, the recently announced Price increase aside, I am more concerned about the newer pricing of models. Any increase on existing stuff is bad, but it does happen.

However, pricing new models so far and above what they really seem to be worth is another story. I know "worth" is hugely subjective, but if you have an existing Warcaster that was $9.99 (and tough as nails in the game) and a brand new warcaster is $21.99 things seem to be way out of whack there.

Characters/special beasts/jacks have always cost more, as have uniques, like the behemoth. Having not handled the figure, I have no idea if more material and/or more dramatic sculpting went into the figure (the Berserker, to use your example, is detailed but not egregiously so), but prices tend to speak to the weight and complexity of the figure...

They've addressed their price issues--and what they're trying to do to lower prices--in the press release discussed on this board a week+ ago.

*shrug*

Well, add to the fact that they've pulled the rug out from under GF9, and you've got some odd practices there.

It doesn't matter, in 2 weeks we'll all cease to exist because some dummies in france are gonna turn on a nuclear particle smasher that's gonna create a black hole and swallow the earth. It's on CNN so it must be true!

http://rss.cnn.com/~r/rss/cnn_topstories/~3/323315474/index.html

Back on topic.. for me just getting into Hordes, it's kind of a pain :( But metal isn't so cheap anymore. I read they might even be looking into plastic now. Wargaming is just an expensive hobby unfortunately.

It may have more to do with the investment making a new model and the expected quantities they will sell. Presumeably, a character 'jack takes more time and effort to sculpt and mold, but at the same time, will sell less units than the standard figure. It may be that PP is just pricing the character 'jacks to recover their investment at expected sales quantities, to at least break even.

I actually would prefer that plastics make themselves known in PP venues. I really love the quality of the PP casts, but the model design to make many of the metal models fit are poorly thought out.

Hopefully the Monsterpocalypse will give PP a boost in not only sales (it is indeed a sweet looking game, and I am sure the mechanics will be great as usual) but in experience in utlizing plastic.

Until PP goes plastic, I really think they will remain second fiddle to GW. Once they do go plastic (not 'IF' but 'WHEN' ) I am certain you will see PP eat even more into GW's market share.

Thus forcing GW to really get on the ball on their quality.

Its a situation that will surely be good for consumers.

They've already stated they would include plastics in their line.

However, in the worst way possible; Metal/plastic hybrids. I rather all plastic or all metal...please no plastic/metal kits.

Well, plastics creation takes time and experience. Compare 2nd Ed. statue Space Marines with 4th Ed starter set Space Marines.

GW produced sucessful plastic/metal hybrids for years.

You want them to start small...

$59.99 will translate in €59.99?... because 60 euros is dirty expensive, i do love the model though and was considering getting one.

I don't know if this has been mentioned or not, but that cheaper Jugg is getting a price increase soon.

The old models have lower prices because the cost of metals was much cheaper 5+ years ago. They may not even make a profit off that old Jugg any more.

In other words, buy Cavalry and support your hobby .

Actually, $60 only works out to about 40€.

JHall wrote:I consider it news. These are very steep increases that will impact the shape of the game and also how people approach the hobby. If it should be in Discussions that is fine. There is enough other stuff in the News and Rumors thread that can be considered much less news worthy than this, so I am not sure what the big deal is.

That is a decision for a MOD, and last time I checked Pixel, you were not one. I don't see why you need to police the forum.

Well this is news to me and I don't see what his beef is with the post. Sometimes people get a tad fanatical on this forum.

Tacobake wrote:The old models have lower prices because the cost of metals was much cheaper 5+ years ago. They may not even make a profit off that old Jugg any more.

The Jugg already got a price increase as he used to be $20 back in the day. The idea that they're not making profit off those models is laughable. They are merely escalating prices because they believe that the market can sustain it. I have not bought anything Privateer in almost a year since I can not go to the FLGS and buy it off the shelf where I live now. The last time I was back at my old FLGS, I was shocked at how much the prices appeared to have crept on the new releases. Despite the prices rapidly approaching my spending comfort limit (i.e. passing $100 per infantry squad), I'm still a fan of the system, and I eagerly await the relase of the new Khadoran Warcaster Zerkova.

I will admit that by in large, the quality of their sculpts has steadily improved, though they also have their fair share of turkeys. Fiona the Black is probably the UGLIEST character model I've seen in a long time.

keezus wrote:

Tacobake wrote:The old models have lower prices because the cost of metals was much cheaper 5+ years ago. They may not even make a profit off that old Jugg any more.

The Jugg already got a price increase as he used to be $20 back in the day. The idea that they're not making profit off those models is laughable. They are merely escalating prices because they believe that the market can sustain it. I have not bought anything Privateer in almost a year since I can not go to the FLGS and buy it off the shelf where I live now. The last time I was back at my old FLGS, I was shocked at how much the prices appeared to have crept on the new releases. Despite the prices rapidly approaching my spending comfort limit (i.e. passing $100 per infantry squad), I'm still a fan of the system, and I eagerly await the relase of the new Khadoran Warcaster Zerkova.

I will admit that by in large, the quality of their sculpts has steadily improved, though they also have their fair share of turkeys. Fiona the Black is probably the UGLIEST character model I've seen in a long time.

Um, Reaper, Hasslefree, and Old Glory, among others, have all raised their prices as a response to higher costs of materials. A couple of smaller companies have shut their doors as a response. Several other major players (Battlefront, Perry Bros.) have started making plastic components or whole plastic figs, and two new companies are going all plastic as a response. To say that PP is 'merely escalating prices because they believe that the market can sustain it' is perhaps pushing the limits of credulity, but it is your opinion.

As to the sculpts themselves, that is a matter of taste which, while I'm happy to debate, is pretty much a mooted topic.

I don't like the prices of my hobby products going up--didn't like it when I played GW games, don't like it now, but there are ways around it through alternative figures and the secondary/tertiary market, and the reality is, prices are going up for everything--also bad, but a macroeconomic condition outside the realm of any company's control--even GW or PP

Mod powers activate!
Moved to discussions. Pre-emptively to all, please keep it polite.

Thank you and please keep all hands, feet, and heads within the vehicle throughout the ride
Mod powers de-activate!

I'll do what I did when GW raised prices.

I'll spend the same amount of money and end up with
fewer miniatures.

It also means I'll have fewer unpainted figures on the
battlefield, as I won't buy things preemptively and instead
I'll proxy and/or wait until the budget opens up.

Actually, $60 only works out to about 40€.

Sadly not, US-prices recently have developed the ugly habit of being converted 1:1 by gaming companies.

Duncan_Idaho wrote:

Actually, $60 only works out to about 40€.

Sadly not, US-prices recently have developed the ugly habit of being converted 1:1 by gaming companies.

Yep, and thats what I'm afraid of.

For $60, that's pretty comparable in price to a GW Greater Daemon, so it seems about right to me.

Well, a Greater Daemon is $45, so it isn't that comparable. As I said before, the fact that a regular Berserker is $25 (soon to be $30) and the character version is double that really seems out of sorts.

Privateer needs some sort of price banding to keep things consistent. Sure, models will have more metal in this one and that one, but as long as you have a basic scale, things balance out. Take the new Dragoon characters on horse for example. The Cygnar one is $30. Menoth is $38, Cryx is $30, and the Khador one is $45. That is just way too all over the place for the same troop type in the game.

GW definitely has a better scale in place so that all Characters on foot are around $12, large models on 40mm bases in blisters are $17, Plastic units are $22/$35 depending on how many models in the box, etc. It's just too hard to figure out where Privateer is coming from on their various models.

Well, GW has similar things as well. A crisis suit is $20 while Farsight is $35. Three stealths are $20 while Shadowsun is ~$15 (though I say this comparison is loose at best). Space marines have the plastic captain who's $15 and the chaos termi lord that's $20.

Sure, there will always be things that don't line up, I just think that GW's overall scale is a lot better to keep most things in line with a similar pricing structure.

I think that the thing that really struck me lately about the large gap in costs were the newer Warcasters. I went to buy Epic Irusk and I couldn't believe he was like $20. Sure he is bigger and has a nice banner, but that just seemed so strange to me since the non Epic version is only $10. Goreshade is also $13 for the regular version and the Epic one is like $23. The non Epic version also comes with Deathwalker for that $13 and you don't get that with the Epic one that costs $10 more!