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Hey Guys.

My brother has been really getting into the Night Lords fluff and fancied trying to make a vaguely themed army for them.

He's going to get the new box set that's coming out, and also really likes the new Forge World World Eaters models so the list will be based around those contents.

Here's what my meager efforts put together for him but I'd like your help in pointing out the best unit sizes and weapon choices etc.
Also if it'll need more troops for v5 etc.

Thanks in advance, oh and also I don't know why I couldn't get him to take Lash for his prince. Think it was for fluff reasons as the only reason his Lord has Mo-Slaanesh is because the Night Lords guy has some kind of item (think he said a crown) that calms him down or something. The only way he felt he could represent this in game was the senses honing effect giving him +1 Int from the MoS. So here goes...

1500pts Night Lords

HQ

Daemon Prince
Wings, Warptime
155

Lord
Lighting Claws, Mark of Slaanesh
personal icon, jump pack
150

TROOPS

10 Khorne Berzerkers 210
Skull Champion 15, Power fist 25
250

10 Khorne Berzerkers 210
Skull Champion 15, Power fist 25
250

10 Chaos Space Marines 150
2 Plasma Guns 30
Aspiring Champion 15, Power weapon 15
210

ELITES

5 Chaos Terminators 150
Lightning Claws 50
200

FAST ATTACK

5 Raptors 100

HEAVY SUPPORT

5 Havocs 75
2 Lascannon 70
2 Missile Launcher 40
185

5 havocs with 4 hwy weapons? Thats very little survival for very expensive items.

considering his dislike for lash prines, its odd that he then has 20 khorne berserkers...

demon princes without marks are still better than lords with them (WS7 S6 A4, re-rolling everything? mmm yes please)

sorcerers are better than lords, so if you dont take an extra demon prince take a sorcerer. again they dont have to have a mark. a sorcerer with a jump pack and wind of chaos costs the same as your lord and kills more stuff with shooting and in combat.

if you stay with the berserkers you need to give them rhinos or they will get shot appart before they get close enough to charge. the trouble with berserkers is they are good on paper, but not so good in practice.

i would advocate the use of cult marines over normal CSM, but if you some reason he doesnt want to use them;

the squad you have is designed to opperate to short ranges but they are slow. they will likely get shot and run away before they have the chance to do much. if they are made for holding objectives they are ok, but need an Icon of chaos glory to stop them running away.

LC terminators need a fast delivery system to make them effective. if you spend three turns running up to your enemy you will probably only kill one unit with them. to do this well you will probably need a land raider. the most effective way to deepstrike termies is to equip them with guns so they can rince a unit with bullets on the turn they arrive and then charge another a turn later.

you need more raptors. 1 naked squad of 5 isnt enough (especially for night lords).

you also need more anti-tank. at 1500pts there are lots of tanks running around and having only 1 squad to deal with them wont really work.

i think a better whay to run night lords would be something like this:

HQ
Demon Prince 155
Wings
Warp Time

Sorcerer 150
Wings
Wind of Chaos


Troops
10 CSM 180
Plasma Gun
Heavy Bolter


10 CSM 180
Plasma Gun
Heavy Bolter


These guys are your objective holders. they have a decent range and in most cases will hold their own in combat, at least for a turn. plague marines would be better though

7 CSM 190
Champ /w Power Weapon
Melta
IoCG
Rhino

these guys drive up alongside your raptors and capture objectives

Fast Attack
7 Raptors 200
Camp /w Powerfist
Melta Gun x2
IoCG

7 Raptors 200
Camp /w Powerfist
Melta Gun x2
IoCG

lots of raptors are good for a night lords army. they hit hard and can blow up vehicles without too much trouble. they will probably get shot a lot by stuff though but the icon should keep them around a little longer. have the sorcerer run with these guys for extra nastiness.

Heavy Support

Obliterator 75

Obliterator 75

Obliterator 75

these guys are your primary ranged anti-tank and anti-horde. a few more would be good but you have enough metla guns knocking around that tank shouldnt be too much trouble. it remains to be seen how much kill points will effect outcome in 5th, so it may be wise to feild them in 1 squad of 3 rather then 3 squads of 1.


in a casual enviroment that list will do pretty well. it has decent shooting and decent combat but i wouldnt call it optimised. it has a lot of faster elements, which are more in keeping with night lords.

to scale the army you need to add some more oblits, increase the sizes of the marines squads and add more raptors. giving the raptors a different icon would also be good. khorne or nurgle would be ideal.

Agree with Regwon on most of his points, but disagree on the lords being worthless and your bro did want berzerkers in there ...

HQ
Demon Prince - MoS, wings, warptime = 160
Chaos Lord - MoS, lightning claws, jump pack, melta bombs = 150

TROOPS
8 Berzerkers - SK w/ powerfist, rhino = 243
8 Berzerkers - SK w/ powerfist, rhino = 243
10 CSM - IoCU, plasma gun, heavy bolter, AC w/ power weapon, combi-weapon = 215

FAST ATTAK
6 Raptors - IoCU, 2 meltaguns, AC w/ powerfist = 190
6 Raptors - IoCU, 2 flamers = 140

HEAVY SUPPORT
Obliterator = 75
Obliterator = 75

TOTAL
1491 points

There's my take. Mobilized the berzerkers (remember: fearless troops in 5th aren't totally screwed when their transport wrecks ) and attempted to get a couple raptor squads in there. One is anti-tank & big stuff and the other is anti-horde & accompanies the lord around the table. Kept 2 loner oblits, my single always comes through for me. And the CSM squad is fire support and can also move up, bunker on objective and hose from there. For the combi-weapon I think combi-flamer is probably ideal for a 2x plasma volley

- Salvage

Thanks for the feedback guys.

@Regwon, my bro wants the Lord to represent the Night Lords Character, they're not big on Chaos powers themselves, so a Sorcerer wouldn't really sit with the theme. Though power is good yeah.
He also wants to use the Berserker FW models as I said, so not dropping them. Could persuade him to drop a squad for other marines though.

We also tried to fit 2 Raptor squads in, but couldn't in 1500 as I was trying to have atleast 3 Troops for fifth.

@Boss, That's a bit more like it. The Berserkers are in and so is the Lord. The set he's buying comes with a Vindicator, Defiler and LR so, may try to sqeeze one of those in (the Vindicator or Defiler) instead of Oblits.
Minly cos he'll have them for now, not which fits with the Night Lord theme better.

@Kallbrand, yeah you right there. I'll go with a vehicle for anti-tank and the second Raptor squad.

I'll try and post a revised list later when I'm home.
Thanks for all the help guys.

Apone

berserkers are better than CSM anyway. its odd that he wont have a sorcerer for fluff reasons, and yet will have berserkers. if he would prefer berserkers then by all means have them.

you have to bear in mind that the night lords (the night hunter in particular) exhibited psychic powers before their heresy. it makes sense that those with psychic abilities would have retained them after their fall and would have risen to positions of power within the legion. these powers are arent linked to chaos particularly, in so much that all psykers draw upon the warp for their power, but they would still function. you could have a sorcerer with warp time to represent their prophetic powers or summat.

that is the fluffy justification for a sorcerer.

demon princes are another matter...

Basic CSM are just a poor choice, with the cultsters beeing so much better. Lords also fall in to the poor choice with all the other HQs kicking its azz big time.

If you run obliterators you better put them in one squad, with the new KP rules.

Regwon wrote:berserkers are better than CSM anyway. its odd that he wont have a sorcerer for fluff reasons, and yet will have berserkers. if he would prefer berserkers then by all means have them.

you have to bear in mind that the night lords (the night hunter in particular) exhibited psychic powers before their heresy. it makes sense that those with psychic abilities would have retained them after their fall and would have risen to positions of power within the legion. these powers are arent linked to chaos particularly, in so much that all psykers draw upon the warp for their power, but they would still function. you could have a sorcerer with warp time to represent their prophetic powers or summat.

that is the fluffy justification for a sorcerer.

demon princes are another matter...

I don't know that he wouldn't per se, just that his descisions are based on fluff and models. He may see what your point of view bout the sorcerer, but the character is supposed to have a jumppack and claws that extend from his fingers (hence lightning claws). Can sorcers take J/packs and Claws? I don't know the codex well, just what I read last night to right the list with based of his choices. Thanks for the feedback again, as I said I'll try a revised list when I get the chance.

Apone

Kallbrand wrote:If you run obliterators you better put them in one squad, with the new KP rules.

I'm gonna disagree on the principle that kill points only affect one mission type. The other 2 standard missions are either decisive victories or tactical draws. In fact the only point in the book that the words 'kill points' occur is on page 91, and only for the annihilation scenario. The other two scenarios read (direct quotation, the book is on my lap) "The player controlling the most objectives wins. If the players control the same number of objectives, the game is a tactical draw."

So, 66% of the time kill points are completely irrelevant.

I never said they were in all the missions. I know they are only in for annihilate, but you might as well have the benefits you can for it. It also wont hurt your army specially to have them in one unit.

Finally a CSM player with a sense of fluff. Lords with jump pack/LCs are nasty against MEQs. Lots of PW attacks and re-rolling to wound rolls is wonderful, MoS will allow him to fight high-initiative dangerous units e.g. Wraiths, other commanders, etc. Give the 'zerks Rhinos for mobility and if you want more fluff, take more raptors.

Cheese Elemental wrote:Finally a CSM player with a sense of fluff. Lords with jump pack/LCs are nasty against MEQs. Lots of PW attacks and re-rolling to wound rolls is wonderful, MoS will allow him to fight high-initiative dangerous units e.g. Wraiths, other commanders, etc. Give the 'zerks Rhinos for mobility and if you want more fluff, take more raptors.

4 S4 attacks...wooo...so youll be killing a grand total of 2 MEQs there, and your still useless againt everything else

a demon prince with wings and warp time is not much more expensive, kills 3.5 MEQs and kills tanks and kills MCs.

Nobody with any sense uses wraiths seriously, so striking before them is pointless. you cant single out enemy charaters anymore either so striking before them is pointless too.

Revised. Mainly using Salvage's list and all your advice of course. Not going with Oblits for know, cos I haven't asked him yet if he wants them.

@Boss your Calculation on the 10man CSM squad was wrong. It should be 240 not 215 with. Spo had to drop the combi weapon from there, the MoS and Melta bombs from the Lord to get it under 1500.

HQ
Demon Prince - MoS, wings, warptime = 160

Chaos Lord - lightning claws, jump pack = 140

TROOPS
8 Berzerkers - SK w/ powerfist, rhino = 243

8 Berzerkers - SK w/ powerfist, rhino = 243

10 CSM - Icon of Chaos Glory, plasma gun, heavy bolter, AC w/ power weapon, = 230

FAST ATTAK
6 Raptors – Icon of Chaos Glory, 2 meltaguns, AC w/ powerfist = 190

6 Raptors - Icon of Chaos Glory, 2 flamers = 140

HEAVY SUPPORT

Defiler 150

1496

I could also swap the Lords LCs for a Daemon weapon (explained fluff wise by the characters inbuilt talon things) and the MoS.
Will see how that works out but let me know if this is better or worse than LC's. I think the extra attacks and Instant Death sound great.