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Lich Lord Asphyxious's spell Excarnate caused some problems a game or two ago.

He cast the spell on Vilmon, who had Impervious Wall up at the time. He "killed" him and took control. The new Vilmon then activated and went after my Avatar, which had retribution on it. He landed a solid hit, triggering retribution.

Here's the problem.

1) Does Excarnate KILL the target model, such that buffs and abilities used expire and no longer have effect, like Impervious Wall? Or is the model just taken over if enough damage is done so that it would have been killed otherwise?

2) If NOT killed, does Impervious Wall that I used on my turn still apply? He essentially re-activates and then in this particular case he charged - something he can't normally do and keep up the Wall since he has to sacrifice movement or action to do it.

3) Does triggering Retribution count as a magical attack at all? ie. is it Vilmon hitting himself, or a magic spell hitting him with the same power he hit the target with, so in this case is it irrelevant that he had Impervious Wall or not because the damage source was magical anyway?

And would that mean a Retribution-protected jack would be able to nail incorporeal models that damage it?



In a different game, I tried to trample through some Widowmakers with the Avatar, passing by some Man O War on the way, taking their free strikes. They hit and ended up taking out my movement - where does it stop? At the start of my trample? It was the second free strike [model behind the first] that took out my movement, so would I advance up until I'm within melee with him? Or move up to the point where I exited his sight arc and thus became elligible for the free strike to begin with?

1)

Erratum: Apotheosis p.91 : Excarnate
Replace the text of Excarnate with the following:
Target living non-warcaster, non-warlock warrior model suffering sufficient damage to be destroyed by Excarnate is removed from play. Replace the model with an independent undead Cryx model with one wound under your control. The Cryx player may choose the Excarnate model’s facing when it is put in play. The model has the stats, abilities, weapons, and base size of the model removed from play by this spell. If Excarnate leaves play or if the model is destroyed, the model is immediately removed from play.

Q: If a model destroyed by Excarnate is knocked down, stationary, has a continuous effect on it, etc., does the Excarnate model inherit these effects?
A: No. It is a new model replacing the one that was destroyed. All spells, effects, and animi on the replaced model expired when it was destroyed by Excarnate.

Excarnate removes a model from play, then replaces the removed model with a nearly identical Cryx model. So the original model is gone and all effects on it expire.

2) IW expires. He can reuse it because it retains all special rules and abilities, but wouldn't be able to move and attack. Side note: the Excarnated model is an independent undead Cryx model, not an undead Cryx solo. Therefore, it cannot charge or run.

3)

FAQ wrote:Erratum: Superiority : Impervious Wall
Replace the text of Impervious Wall with the following:
"Vilmon may forfeit his movement or action to enter the Impervious Wall. While in Impervious Wall, Vilmon does not suffer continuous effects, nor damage or effects from ranged and melee attacks except those that can affect models only affected by magic attacks. Impervious Wall lasts for one round."

Looks like it will kill Vilmon to me.

FAQ wrote:Erratum: Escalation p.75 : Incorporeal
Replace the sixth sentence of Incorporeal with the following:
The Wraith only suffers damage and effects from magic attacks, animi, spells, and feats and is not affected by continuous effects.

And it'll kill Wraiths, too.

Finally,

FAQ wrote:Erratum: Apotheosis p.27 : Trample
Replace the rules for Trample with the following:
Trample -
A heavy warjack may spend a focus point to trample over small-based models in its path. Trampling combines a warjack’s movement and combat action. A warjack that suffers a penalty to its SPD or movement for any reason, regardless of offsetting bonuses, or is denied its movement or action cannot make a trample power attack. Any effects that prevent charging also prevent a model from making a trample power attack. Declare a trample attack at the beginning of the warjack’s movement. Choose a direction in which you wish to trample, and turn the model to face that direction. The warjack then moves up to its current SPD +3” in a straight line. It may move through any small-based model in its path, and there must be room for the trampling model’s base at the end of this movement. During trample movement, the warjack cannot move over terrain across which it could not also charge, and it cannot change its facing during or after. Do not resolve free strikes against the trampling warjack during this movement. After the warjack has finished its movement, it makes a melee attack against each small-based model through which it moved during this movement in the order it moved through them. Resolve each trample attack as if it took place where the trampling model contacted the small-based model during its trample movement. Completely resolve each attack individually and apply the targets’ special rules immediately as each attack is resolved. Models hit cannot perform free strikes against the trampling warjack and suffer a damage roll with a POW equal to the current STR of the attacker. Resolve all free strikes against the trampling warjack after resolving trample attacks. Resolve each free strike as if it took place where the trampling model disengaged from the model making the free strike. After making all of its trample attacks, a warjack may spend focus points to make additional melee attacks against any models in melee range.

Basically, it's make the Trample move, then the Trample attacks, then your opponent gets his Free Strikes, and finally you can spend focus to do other stuff if the jack/beast is still alive.

So it doesn't matter if the free strikes take out his movement?

WOW! I would have completely throttled Vlad that turn with the Avatar, as it was still barely kicking, had its right arm still active, two more focus points and Epic Kreoss's feat was in effect on Vlad.

Luckily I had another trick up my sleeve and the game was a narrow victory after that, but the avatar's assumed failure really made me nervous.

And thank you for posting that, I had been told that after trampling a jack could choose its facing, and I'm glad to know the proper way to do it now.


I imagine the Retribution thing will cause some arguments - so Vilmon hitting a Retribution-protected warjack isn't attacking himself [as it's an equal damage roll] and thus unable to harm himself [as his attacks aren't magical]? It's actually an attack from the spell itself with the same damage as whatever hit it?

Spellbound wrote:
I imagine the Retribution thing will cause some arguments - so Vilmon hitting a Retribution-protected warjack isn't attacking himself [as it's an equal damage roll] and thus unable to harm himself [as his attacks aren't magical]? It's actually an attack from the spell itself with the same damage as whatever hit it?

It's actually not an attack at all. It's a damaging effect like moving through Feora's Wall of Fire. Since Vilmon only ignores damage from melee and ranged attacks, it sneaks by Impervious Wall. The reason it hurts Incorporeal models is because Retribution is a spell, which is something they specifically do not ignore.

Thanks a lot! My Khador friend is going to be annoyed to hear about the trampling rules, and my cryx buddy won't be too happy about the Excarnate thing either, especially when I remind him that he can't charge.

And retribution being able to kill Vilmon helps me out, too, for when I eventually face him on the other side of the table.