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Here's an imperial guard list I'm pondering taking out for a test drive. My comments on the list below.

HQ
1 Junior Officer w/ iron discipline
4 Guardsmen w/ plasma guns
1 chimera w/ hull heavy bolter, multi-laser, heavy stubber

Troops
1 Junior Officer w/ iron discipline
4 Guardsmen w/ plasma guns
1 chimera w/ hull heavy bolter, multi-laser, heavy stubber

1 Infantry Platoon
1 lascannon
1 chimera w/ hull heavy bolter, multi-laser, heavy stubber

1 Infantry Platoon
1 lascannon
1 chimera w/ hull heavy bolter, multi-laser, heavy stubber

1 Armored fist squad
1 lascannon
1 chimera w/ hull heavy bolter, multi-laser, heavy stubber

Elites
9 Ogryn
1 Bone 'ead

Fast Attack
1 Hellhound

9 Rough Riders w/ lances
1 Sergeant w/ power weapon

Heavy Support
1 Leman Russ w/ hull heavy bolter, sponson heavy bolters
1 Leman Russ w/ hull heavy bolter, sponson heavy bolters

This list is about 35 points shy of 1750 so that leaves me some room. More than likely I'll end up putting smoke on all the chimeras and putting rough terrain mods on the russ's.

Notes on counter assault. I stuck in 1 unit of rough riders and 1 unit of ogryn. Rough riders are for use against heavy armor saves like termies, assault squads, tmc's, dp's, etc, that make it up to my tanks. The ogryn are for hordes and lightly armored infantry (hormagaunts, banshees, harlequins, wytchs, etc).

Some notes on the ogryn. With the new consolidation rules and my list I should almost always get the charge off. At least thats what I'm counting on.
The new power fist rules and casualty removal rules mean that fists are a little less effective and this was really the orgryn killer.
Ogryn shooting ripper guns and charging into an orc unit (on average) will kill 15 orcs in one round. No casualties to the ogryn. Unless of course somehow I let a squad get that close to my lines without
Ogryn shooting ripper guns and charging into harlequins will kill a full 10 man squad. With a loss of 2 ogryn.
Ogryn shooting ripper guns and charging into hormagaunts will kill 20. With a loss of 2 ogryn.
Those are impressive numbers against the new horde armies.
This list has a lot of tanks, so are you going to shoot your strength 8-10 weapon at ogryn or tanks? Its another form of saturation.

The chimera's if needed are used to block line of sight to the ogryn and rough riders and generally shoot things up until people get close. Then the 2 assault units get to business.

If this is pre-buy and you do not have the models or strongly desire them on aesthetic grounds, I would try to proxy those Ogryns before investing. Personally, I used to find it annoying to shell out for a particular unit only to find that they hurt my list. (part of the reason I don't play so much any more...) IIRC Ogryns don't have any weapon options beyond the Bone'ead, so the trick of taking a squad with mixed equipment and distributing wounds evenly prior to removing models won't work. *maybe* they might help against Orks, but one barbed strangler hit and that's 200+ points gonezors. (insult to injury is that the 'fex carrying it clocks in at 114 points...)

It is unusual that you have no plasma in your infantry, and that your rough riders are in one large squad rather than two small squads (meltabombs for the sergeant and he can make trouble for tanks) but I'm no authority.

GL with the list.

Yeah, I don't know much about Mech IG, but it looks to me like you've got a lot of points tied up in the Ogryns that I imagine would be better spent in something else like more Inf Squads, Hardened Vets, or Hellhounds. And I wouldn't think that you'd need either that many RRs, either.

wight_widow wrote:If this is pre-buy and you do not have the models or strongly desire them on aesthetic grounds, I would try to proxy those Ogryns before investing. Personally, I used to find it annoying to shell out for a particular unit only to find that they hurt my list. (part of the reason I don't play so much any more...) IIRC Ogryns don't have any weapon options beyond the Bone'ead, so the trick of taking a squad with mixed equipment and distributing wounds evenly prior to removing models won't work. *maybe* they might help against Orks, but one barbed strangler hit and that's 200+ points gonezors. (insult to injury is that the 'fex carrying it clocks in at 114 points...)

It is unusual that you have no plasma in your infantry, and that your rough riders are in one large squad rather than two small squads (meltabombs for the sergeant and he can make trouble for tanks) but I'm no authority.

GL with the list.

I don't think it's possible to actually fit 10 ogryn under the barbed strangler template . Given the new cc rules I think you can actually space out your counter assault so that they arent template bate. And if they would rather kill 2-3 ogryn rather than shoot at one of my tanks I'm all for it.

I don't have the plasma because of the new vehicle rules. The majority of the time I don't expect my tanks to be moving and since, under the new rules, you can only fire 1 weapon out of a firepoint I decided to stick with the lascannon. I plan on using the chimera's as pillboxes. I'm curious to see if they can hold up under the new rules if I pop the hatch and turn it into an open topped vehicle on occasion. If I do deploy the squad it will be behind a chimera wall so for me to be close enough to use plasma with those squads means I'm in trouble.

But this is all theory, I'm just looking for something to mix up my standard list.

Death By Monkeys wrote:Yeah, I don't know much about Mech IG, but it looks to me like you've got a lot of points tied up in the Ogryns that I imagine would be better spent in something else like more Inf Squads, Hardened Vets, or Hellhounds. And I wouldn't think that you'd need either that many RRs, either.

Using hated mathhammer , 5 rougriders only kill 3-4 marines. Because of the new rules I want to maximize damage to cause the most wounds in one round. A 10 man squad gives me about 7-8 wounds. Which after attacks back hopefully leaves me with about a +6 combat resolution which would kill of the rest of the squad. I think the 5 man squad would just get eaten after doing minimal damage. I haven't used rough riders in a long time. Does someone have some benefits of using the 5 man instead of 10?

The ogryn are there because with the new edition I dont think you can count on keeping someone from making it to your lines, so I'm trying to come up with some decent counter attack. Plus I'm trying to find something in the guard codex that can actual contest an objective. I don't know if they ogryn will or won't yet, mainly I'm wondering if anyone has tried a large unit of them out in the new rules. Plus the new models just look cool.

2 hell hounds would probably be better but infantry will take them out pretty quick with the new vehicle assault rules.

Whats everyone else using for seizing objectives?

But see, that's the point of IG counter-attack squads. They're there to get eaten after doing some damage so that you can then finish off the attacking unit with firepower.

I'm of a mind of H.B.M.C.'s tenets of IG - play to the army's strengths rather than shoring up it's weaknesses. Thus, more dakka, less choppa.

Hmmm... I'm not a huge fan of the Ogryns, either. They may work for you, but whenever I write an IG list, I always stick tons of platoons in there. I think that you could buy some more platoon units, and rely on the Chimeras to tote them away if they get endangered. Also, if you scoot your units back some in the deployment zone, then you'll be able to fire your Heavy Weapons to the same effect, and your troops will be a good bit farther from the enemy's. If you want some CC power, you could always think of some Allied Grey Knights. They can't be expected to do everything, but if you pit them against some thinned infantry squads, I think they could be a worthwhile investment.

I read your notes and you've provided alot of plusses for your Ogryn choice. I can't prove or disprove your mathhammer, but would recommend looking at the bad issues you have as well.

1) In 1750, you've only got 30 troopers. That's not nearly enough "boots on the ground" for my taste.

2) With IG, good TTP's revolve around Tanks shooting Infantry and Infantry shooting Tanks. This is why you see so many Las/Plas Fist squads.

3) In reference to the Ogryn's kill potential, it is possible they'll do too well. That leaves your boys in the open to get shot up pretty badly.

4) No codex at hand, so I may be off. Doesn't the Mech Doctrine make everything need to be mounted in Chimera, including the Ogryns?

5) I'd suggest dropping the stubbers from the Chimeras. Points wise, they = a naked infantry squad. More points = more options

6) 10 Ogryns are in the neighborhood of 350 points right? Maybe drop a few to make the unit easier to hide and less expensive. 2 less bodies shouldn't change their output too much while making them less of an investment.

7) With the amount of cover saves out there, I'm a true believer in Flamers. They help when your infantry advances to contest objectives. A command squad with 2-4 flamers will make as good a counter assault unit as anything else in the list and for much less.

8) 10 RR is more than needed to do the mission. Remember, the lances get used in the 1st combat even if you didn't charge. I use mine similar to a suicide drop unit. Hit hard with minimal point invstment and accept that they won't do much after that. Not to mention that they make a large footprint on the table.

9) No matter how well you plan for it, enemy assaulters are bound to make it to your lines. Most units will laugh at the flashlights. Plasma guns will atleast keep them honest.

I think your list can be tweaked while remaining your list. It's not so underpowered that you have to start from scratch. Definitely consider the critiques other posters have made and work from there.

I'll definitely try proxying the ogryn a few times (I have tons of minotaurs from fantasy that will do the trick) espeically after the severe disliking that everyone has with them. Everyone is probably right but I do really like the models.

The ogryn topped out at 260 for a 10 man unit with bonehead.

I'll double check the mech doctrine but I'm pretty sure it says that all guard infantry have to be in a chimera, but everything else is fine.

HQ
1 Junior Officer w/ iron discipline
4 Guardsmen w/ plasma guns
1 chimera w/ hull heavy bolter, multi-laser, heavy stubber

Troops
1 Junior Officer w/ iron discipline
4 Guardsmen w/ plasma guns
1 chimera w/ hull heavy bolter, multi-laser, heavy stubber

1 Infantry Squad
1 Guardsmen w/ plasma guns
1 Guardsmen w/ lascannons
1 chimera w/ hull heavy bolter, multi-laser, heavy stubber

1 Infantry Squad
1 Guardsmen w/ plasma guns
1 Guardsmen w/ lascannons
1 chimera w/ hull heavy bolter, multi-laser, heavy stubber

1 Armored Fist Squad
1 Guardsmen w/ plasma guns
1 Guardsmen w/ lascannons
1 chimera w/ hull heavy bolter, multi-laser, heavy stubber

Elites
9 Ogryn
1 Bone 'ead

Fast Attack
5 Rough Riders w/ lances
5 Rough Riders w/ lances
1 Hellhound

Heavy Support
1 Leman Russ w/ hull heavy bolter, sponson heavy bolters
1 Leman Russ w/ hull heavy bolter, sponson heavy bolters

So in this revised list I put in the plasma guns in the infantry and split the sergeants.

I would love to put some flamers in but I have a model issue. I use all Steel legion models for my infantry which means that unless I want to try to hack up single pose lead models i'm stuck with grenade launchers and plasma. I have some conversions where I was able to remove the grenade launcher and fit in a melta guns, but the pose isn't right for a flamer.

Unfortunately, because I'm using mechanized, to me a "naked squad" is 145 points since they have to go in a chimera or I guess 115 if you go with a half strength squad.

Mechanized Guard is always a small model count. At least as far as I have seen. My typical list would drop the rough riders and the ogryn and look something like this. This one is an 1850 list. I posted the other one at 1750 because people are trending that way because of the points for the gt's this year.

HQ
1 Junior Officer w/ iron discipline
4 Guardsmen w/ plasma guns
1 chimera w/ hull heavy bolter, multi-laser, heavy stubber

1 Special weapons team
1 demo charge
1 chimera w/ hull heavy bolter, multi-laser, heavy stubber

1 Special weapons team
1 demo charge
1 chimera w/ hull heavy bolter, multi-laser, heavy stubber

1 Sentinnel w/ lascannon

Troops
1 Junior Officer w/ iron discipline
4 Guardsmen w/ plasma guns
1 chimera w/ hull heavy bolter, multi-laser, heavy stubber

1 Infantry Squad
1 Guardsmen w/ melta gun
1 chimera w/ hull heavy bolter, multi-laser, heavy stubber

1 Infantry Squad
1 Guardsmen w/ melta gun
1 chimera w/ hull heavy bolter, multi-laser, heavy stubber

1 Armored Fist Squad
1 Guardsmen w/ melta gun
1 chimera w/ hull heavy bolter, multi-laser, heavy stubber

Fast Attack
1 Hellhound
1 Sentinnel w/ lascannon

Heavy Support
1 Leman Russ w/ hull heavy bolter, sponson heavy bolters
1 Leman Russ w/ hull heavy bolter, sponson heavy bolters
1 Demolisher w/ hull heavy bolter, sponson heavy bolters