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While Painting my Eldar Fire Dragon, I noticed that the paint was eagerly coming off. I scratched its armor and all of the paint - including the primer- came off, and the silvery layer was showing. I also found that i could scratch the paint off some of my previously painted models - I'm not really scratching it, im more rubbing my fingernail across it lightly.

Is the problem in my primer, my paints ( i use the GW paints) or should i just be very careful of my minis?

Thanks,
Red

Edit - This only happens on my metal models, its fine for plastics.

what primer are you using? GW also? I always used GW primers but lately I've been using Rostoleium since it's cheaper and the white seems to cover a lot better than GW's white used to

One thing I always do with metals is wash em first.. not as much as I'd scrub resin, but a quick bath. Sometimes you'll get a metal mini and it feels kind of gritty like there's a powder on it .. I guess it's from the casting process.. I dunno if it's necessary but I do it anyway.

Also you can easily rub off paint as you're working if you're not careful. I usually attach the figure to a temporary base while I paint and I hold it by the base

and last you should get some kind of sealer for the end. I use Testors flat varnish, but even GW makes a spray sealer you can try. it helps protect the paint a bit more.

Did you seal the mini?

Well, you're probably suffering from one of 3 problems... or a combination.

1) Did you wash your mini before priming? Release agents are said to cause adhesion problems with primer and paint, causing it to rub or scrape off easier. I've seen it actually fall of on it's own from being jostled (with was a FW resin model, though). Personally, I don't give a LOT of play to this one, as I've been painting minis for 27 years and I have never EVER washed a SINGLE metal model before using and have never had that problem with a primed mini.

2) What kind of primer did you use? How old was it? Lower quality primers and older primers do not adhere as well as better/newer ones. I use automotive (NON EXPANDING) sandable primer on all of my minis and nothing I've ever used compares with it.

3) Are you using sealant on your models (gloss or matte)? I'd imagine that you paint like I do... While painting, do you hold the model by the model and not the base? technically, this is not the way we're supposed to do it. We're supposed to handle the mini by the base only (or have it on some sort of armature that we can hold it by. Frag that. I don't have the time or patience. What you DO have to have, though, is gently hands. As you're painting this model, if your calloused hands are running rough-shod all over it, you're going to cause the paint to come tight off.
As for your earlier, completed models... if you aren't matte or gloss sealing them, then you're just asking for trouble. I prefer a gloss coat followed by a matte coat or two - You get the added protection of the thicker gloss, but the better look of the matte. Any model you paint should have a sealer coat on it.

So, which category/categories do you fall into? If none, then give us an idea of what your procedures are when painting.


Eric

[edit] Drat! You guys got in while I was typing. LOL

First of all, thanks for all of the replies.

I'm using the black GW Primer, although I bought a can of the Rust-oleum Painter's Touch White Primer, but never tried it. My GW Primer is quite old, but still has a little bit left in it. (Old meaning 3 years)

1) I have not ever cleaned my minis before priming and painting

2) Never used sealant

3) I usually hold the models by the base, but not always.

I've looked over all of my metal minis, scratched them a bit, and luckily the only ones that have this issue are the last few I've painted (coincidentally, the metal minis I've just bought.)
Is there a way for me to fix these minis without stripping them completely?

Thanks for the help,
Red

Red Fist wrote:
2) Never used sealant

Alright dude, I would be willing to bet that this is your biggest problem. I say this because I used to have the exact same problems, and I know how frustrating it can be, but since I have started sealing stuff, I have had basically had no problem.

The stuff about washing and type of primer is probably not the problem, especially going by what you have said. I have started washing things just because, but I used to never wash anything, and I have never had a problem. As long as the models aren't dusty or greasy (and I have never seen one that was), they should be fine.

As far as primer goes, as long as your primer isn't giving your model a "rough" finish, it shouldn't really matter. I'll be honest, I usually just "prime" with watered down black paint rather than use a spray primer, and I don't have any problems as long as I varnish when I'm done. I use a similar "priming" method to what one of the staff at Battlefront uses, so there's at least some precedent here. I know some guys use auto primer, but I don't think this is necessary (and be careful, because some auto primer can melt plastic).

I recommend hitting everything with a coat of gloss varnish for better protection, and then a coat of matte varnish to kill the shine.

If you suspect not using varnish isn't the problem, just paint a test model and then varnish it with gloss and matte, and see what happens.

Going by what you said though, the lack of varnish is by far the most likely problem (x2).

I agree with Hordini. Your lact of sealant is Problem #1.

Problem #2 is the age of your primer. Just like everything else, it loses "something" with age.
Ditch it. The fact that the problem is primarily your more recent minis supports this.

Also... and this is just my preference... STOP SCRATCHING AT YOUR MINIS. LOL

Eric

I agree with the use of sealant. FYI I use an old toothbrush and dish soap to clean metal models before priming, but to be honest I don't see a difference between now and before I began this. Really I do it because they get so shiny.

MagickalMemories wrote:

Also... and this is just my preference... STOP SCRATCHING AT YOUR MINIS. LOL

Eric

Lol probably wasn't the smartest thing to even do in the first place.

Thanks to everyone who responded to this post. Im going to go out and buy some sealant and new primer.

Thanks again,
Red

Red Fist wrote:Is there a way for me to fix these minis without stripping them completely?

When I do a touch up I use some brush on primer on the metal, then paint in the touch up and then seal it again. Or in your case for the first time. But be sure to use the brush on primer on the metal, or you risk having to do it again. Made that mistake before myself.

Reaper makes a nice "Brush-On" primer and sealer.

for all my primer I use Black gesso I love the stuff anyways yea just use a brush on primer it will work for what you need and use a matte finsh to save the paint jobs =P