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My friend and i have been reading through the eldar codex alot and have read the part in which the codex states that the avatar is immune to flamer, heavy flamers, melta weapons. No my friend and i want to make a house rule if you attack the avatar with one of the weapons listed he gains an extra wound (even if it takes him over the original 4 wounds he starts with), Is this a reasonable rule?

if you are only doing it as a house rule then there shouldn't be a problem with it. But I would suggest not allowing the Avatar to go over its starting wounds. Instead only 'regeneraging' lost ones from other forms of shooting. But otherwise nice idea for a friendly game

When would this ever come up? There's no reason to hit him with a melta weapon now, unless you don't know his rule. If you're using a house rule, then it'll definitely be with someone who knows the rule, so he just won't do it. It's not like you'll accidentally hit him with a flamer if you don't want to. I guess it could come up if your melta-torpedo scatters onto him, but beyond that, I can't see this ever come up. I've been playing the Avatar for a long time, and I've only seen the fact that he's immune to flamers and melta come up maybe twice, with someone who just didn't know his rules.

If you're playing with house rules, allow your friend Avatar regeneration, but require something in return.

sirisaacnuton wrote:When would this ever come up? There's no reason to hit him with a melta weapon now, unless you don't know his rule. If you're using a house rule, then it'll definitely be with someone who knows the rule, so he just won't do it. It's not like you'll accidentally hit him with a flamer if you don't want to. I guess it could come up if your melta-torpedo scatters onto him, but beyond that, I can't see this ever come up. I've been playing the Avatar for a long time, and I've only seen the fact that he's immune to flamers and melta come up maybe twice, with someone who just didn't know his rules.

What if something with a meltagun/flamer has the fire frenzy rule? Then it has to shoot it if its the closest enemy or something like that, or a flamer template ends up touching it when being shot at another unit due to close proximityof the Avatar and the unit being fired at? This could come up, and whilst it may not thats what makes it a decent house rule. It won't always give an advantage, nor an overwhelming one, but when it does happen it adds to the spirit and enjoyment of the game

Just seems unnecessary. The chances of it comming up are so remote that its almost a waste of time. So sure, let him regen if you guys like. Not a big deal really. I would, however, limit him to a max of his starting wounds. Regen should fix you, not be a "If you stike me down I'll only retun more powerful than ever before MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!" style power.

interesting idea but yeh still, if you both knew the rule of immunity to heat then you really would'nt shoot him with such a weapon anyway.

Squig_herder wrote:i want to make a house rule if you attack the avatar with one of the weapons listed he gains an extra wound (even if it takes him over the original 4 wounds he starts with)

Then why would you do it? I mean really:

Player 1: I'm moving my Avatar into the open. They're in range of that squad with the 10 Multi-Meltas.
Player 2: Sweet! I'm a complete moron and I want to lose, so I'm going to give the Avatar +10 wounds by shooting him with my multimeltas.
Player 1: Awesome! Thanks for the assist buddy.
Player 2: Yeah! When I'm done here I'm off to go sniff paint!


Seriously, this is a rule that requires your opponent to do something stupid that directly benefits you. It doesn't matter if the rule is reasonable or not, it doesn't make sense for it to even exist.

BYE

i agree with MBMC; its a stupid rule because only those people who don't know the avatar will fall for/use it. As it is the rule just makes the avatar immune to those weapons so people won't shoot at hm anyway. Unless you regularily get new people this rule will (Almost) never see the light of day.

I don't see why the Avatar needs this rule, while he may not be as awesome as he should be in an absolute sense, for his points he's more than worth it.

And while he may be immune to fire/melta weapons, I don't see why they would regenerate him either. If anything it would be all the metal shells flung his way that melt and are absorbed into his body I would think.

IMO, the Avatar should be Sv2+/4++ FNP, being an animated metal statue, rather than a living, breathing model...

But regenerating wounds? No, that's just silly.

personally, given the Avatars legendary background, I'd almost want him as an Apoc unit, something like

WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
10 6 8 8 7 7 6 10 3+

Gargantuan Creature
Eternal Warrior
The avatar has both a 3+ armor and 3+ invulnerable save.
Any wounds caused by the Avatar inflict instant death regardless of toughness.

All Eldar units that have line of sight to the Avatar count as Stubborn, any within 12" are Fearless.
The Wailing doom may be thrown up to 18" and counts as an Assault 1 Destroyer weapon.
the avatar reduces the leadership of all enemy units within 12" by 2.



that's what I'd like to see, especially given his FW model and his fluff, but then he'd never be seen in games of normal 40k, so obviously he has to be toned down for normal play.

that said, for his current points he's an excellent unit.

Agreed.

But he should really weigh in around 200-250 pts, with stats and rules to match.

fireball900 wrote:MBMC

That's a new one...

BYE

Vaktathi wrote:that's what I'd like to see, especially given his FW model and his fluff, but then he'd never be seen in games of normal 40k, so obviously he has to be toned down for normal play.

You could make the same argument for the other four Greater Daemons as well. There's lots of art depicting them as huge/Warhound Titan-ish in size.

BYE

Well, there are those Forgeworld sculpts too. I guess the key thing is that a Greater Daemon, per fluff as I recall it, is totally unbound by reality, whereas the Avatar is more of a Daemonhost type of construct - the essence of Khaine is bound by the iron of whatever particular size of statue the Craftworld in question happened to have when the Eldar fell. I guess there's no reason why some obscure Craftworld might not have had an Imperator-sized statue of Khaine - with the ressources of the galaxy at their disposal, the Eldar could pretty much have done whatever they wanted.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Vaktathi wrote:that's what I'd like to see, especially given his FW model and his fluff, but then he'd never be seen in games of normal 40k, so obviously he has to be toned down for normal play.

You could make the same argument for the other four Greater Daemons as well. There's lots of art depicting them as huge/Warhound Titan-ish in size.

BYE

With Greater Daemons however, while not necessarily represented in the 40k rules (although a little in Fantasy), they do differ quite alot even amongst those of the same type. Amongst Bloodthirsters, Sanguinius was able to defeat many without great effort, another almost killed him, and the Forgeworld An'grath is the mightiest of all Bloodthirsters, but is still techinically of the same type as the one that possesed nameless champion #423.

wight_widow wrote:Well, there are those Forgeworld sculpts too. I guess the key thing is that a Greater Daemon, per fluff as I recall it, is totally unbound by reality, whereas the Avatar is more of a Daemonhost type of construct - the essence of Khaine is bound by the iron of whatever particular size of statue the Craftworld in question happened to have when the Eldar fell. I guess there's no reason why some obscure Craftworld might not have had an Imperator-sized statue of Khaine - with the ressources of the galaxy at their disposal, the Eldar could pretty much have done whatever they wanted.

Thats an interesting idea.