Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So I just got into Fantasy and I've got the VC army book and read through it a few times. I'm loving the looks of ghouls and I'm going to build my army around them and some of those awesome Varghulfs.

1000 pts.
Vampire, Dark Acolyte, Summon Ghouls, Dispel Scroll, Dispel Scroll 195 pts.
Vampire, Ghoulkin, Avatar of Death, Talisman of Lynci, Black Periapt 170 pts.
Vampire, Dark Acolyte, Summon Ghouls, Dispel Scroll, Dispel Scroll 195 pts.

10x Ghouls w/ Ghast 88 pts.
10x Ghouls w/ Ghast 88 pts.
10x Ghouls w/ Ghast 88 pts.
10x Ghouls w/ Ghast 88 pts.
10x Ghouls w/ Ghast 88 pts.

This list is just Ghoul spam. A vamp on the right, a vamp on the left and a vamp in the center leading the charge. Since I have very little experience I think just pumping the hell out of the Ghoul units as I charge down the table is probably a good idea. The Ghoulkin Vamp is kind of a throw away, I expect him to die to enemy shooting pretty fast. Or tie up a poorly placed caster which is pretty possible as everyone that I will be playing against is just like me, completely new to this game.

For my 2000 point list I want to add these 1000 points to the above list

(Remove the Black Periapt from the Ghoulkin Vampire and give him The flayed hauberk)

Vampire Lord, Master of the Black Arts, Dark Acolyte, Summon Ghouls, Nightshroud, Helm of Commandment, The Book of Arkhan, Black Periapt 400 pts.

Varghulf 175
Varghulf 175

Increase 4 of the Ghoul units to 15 a piece for 80 points.

What holes do I have in the 2000 pts list? I know it is leaning heavy on magic and number of ghouls I have swinging. The Varghulfs I think will help make up for the lack of any hard hitting cav units. In this army's formation, like the first, it would just march right up the field, except this time the large units of Ghouls go on the far sides of the board with the Caster Vamp heros behind them buffing them as they go. The three smaller units of Ghouls go in the center with the super casty vampire lord behind them buffing the hell out of them. The vampire lord can also draw to either side as they march forward to assist either of the sides in their WS to combat cav units. The 2 Varghulfs would go between the Vamp lord and the other 2 caster vamp heros to give some support to the ghouls if they should come under attack from something they couldn't handle. The Ghoulkin vamp can act as a fast unit to outflank/outmaneuver units that hit the front lines with Varghulfs. I don't expect them to die as quickly as I would in the 1000 point list, although probably the opposite is true.

Also, a small border patrol list is probably what we will all be using to learn to play. I'm thinking something like...

10x Ghouls w/ Ghast 88 pts.
10x Ghouls w/ Ghast 88 pts.
10x Ghouls w/ Ghast 88 pts.
10x Ghouls w/ Ghast 88 pts.

Then one of two vampires, one would be

Vampire, Dark Acolyte, Summon Ghouls 145 pts.
This vampire could buff his front lines like crazy as they slowly march to the enemy. Then everything just kind of happens

The other being

Vampire, Ghoulkin, Avatar of Death 145 pts.
This one would just make me hit the enemy lines faster and wouldn't have as good buffing, but I'm not sure how good that will turn out. I don't expect him to die as fast in this list due to him being not as fast without the Talisman of The Flash.

Option Zero (The full of fail and lose option) could be

Necromancer + another 10x Ghouls w/ Ghast. But I don't think that would work out very well, they would have an inability to march and lack the punch of a vamp on the board. But I don't think I would even field that, even if the numbers looked good

Seems to get a view or two every day... oh well...
/bump

Well, yeah. It's ghoul spam alright. I can't do anything about that. Makes me want to write another skavenslave spam list.

Is it cheesy to spam ghouls?

of course not

i use 2 solid blocks of 100 skaven slaves
its amusing to watch an army fire everything it has at a unit and still not cause a panic test
if i dont like who im playing then i just use a unit of 200 lol

Ghoul spam is ghoul spam. I'd add some wolves for flanking, maybe some Black Knights, Corpse carts for ASF etc. Atleast it'd give you some variation...

Btw; your Vamp Lord is sadly illegal. Book of Arkhan + Periapt is a no-no.


As for the 200 skaven slaves... My Wood Elf Alter highborn with Bow of Loren and Starfire Arrows (1 dead = panic test) is in for some target practice

-HC

This list has no staying power at all, if those ghoul units go up against any kind of mediocre cc unit they are going to get crumbled into dust. You can't rely on magic to raise them. You need something with staying power to make ghouls work, i.e grave guard. Using them as a powerful anvil you can flank with the ghouls. Vargulfs, while good supporting units, are not a good substitute for hard hitting black knights and considering how cheap they are, a hammer unit of 6 doesn't significantly put you back many points. You also should be taking ghouls in larger units, you cannot rely on magic to raise them much higher than their starting value b/c of the chance of running into an army with good magic defense and because magic is random. You need to be running your chars in units b/c vamps with no armor save by themselves will quite easily die to the weakest shooting.
Your chars are kitted out ok however, i would mount your vampire lord and give him the dreadlance and giving him forbidden lore is also great as lore of metal can situationally be good against cav armies.

HiveCrawler wrote:
Btw; your Vamp Lord is sadly illegal. Book of Arkhan + Periapt is a no-no.

-HC

Can't have 2 items from the same category I'm guessing?

Correct. I had the same problem before myself, trying to fit Book of Arkhan, Periapt, Skull Staff AND Sceptre on Lord and two Necro's.

Also, I would listen to Caine. Get some variatin. Not only will the list be much better, but you won't be bored to death shuffling ghouls around

-HC

PistolWraithCaine wrote:This list has no staying power at all, if those ghoul units go up against any kind of mediocre cc unit they are going to get crumbled into dust. You can't rely on magic to raise them. You need something with staying power to make ghouls work, i.e grave guard. Using them as a powerful anvil you can flank with the ghouls. Vargulfs, while good supporting units, are not a good substitute for hard hitting black knights and considering how cheap they are, a hammer unit of 6 doesn't significantly put you back many points. You also should be taking ghouls in larger units, you cannot rely on magic to raise them much higher than their starting value b/c of the chance of running into an army with good magic defense and because magic is random. You need to be running your chars in units b/c vamps with no armor save by themselves will quite easily die to the weakest shooting.
Your chars are kitted out ok however, i would mount your vampire lord and give him the dreadlance and giving him forbidden lore is also great as lore of metal can situationally be good against cav armies.

This all makes great sense to me. Thank you!

Now let me give this a second shot.

1000 pts.
19x Ghouls w/ Ghast 160
19x Ghouls w/ Ghast 160
20x Ghouls w/ Ghast 168

Vampire Ghoulkin, Avatar of Death (Great weapon) 145
Vampire Infinite Hatred, Avatar of Death, Blood Drinker 185
Vampire Dark Acolyte, Summon Ghouls, Nightshroud, Sword of Battle 180

Comes out to 998 pts. Does this list look better though? It has 6 DD and I think 6 PD? The 19 blocks have the Ghoulkin Vampire in one and Infinite Hatred Vampire in the other. Pretty straight forward once again though. The blocks are a lot bigger and I guess more survivable with the vampires in them.

For 2000 I was thinking this
19x Ghouls w/ Ghast 160
19x Ghouls w/ Ghast 160
20x Ghouls w/ Ghast 168
20x Ghouls w/ Ghast 168

Vampire Ghoulkin, Avatar of Death (Great Weapon) 145
Vampire Infinite Hatred, Avatar of Death (Great Weapon) 145

5x Blood Knights Kastellan w/ Sword of Battle, Musician, Standard bearer with Banner of the Dead Legion 365

20x Grave Guad Seneschal, Mucisian, Standard bearer w/ Banner of the Barrows 315

Vampire Lord, Master of the Black Arts, Dark Acolyte, Summon Ghouls, Nightshroud 320

Does that seem better or are there too many points sunk into the blood knights and Grave Guard? Without the Blood Knights here is what I would be doing.

19x Ghouls w/ Ghast 160
19x Ghouls w/ Ghast 160
20x Ghouls w/ Ghast 168
20x Ghouls w/ Ghast 168

Vampire, Ghoulkin, Infinite Hatred Cadaverous Cuirass, Blood Drinker 180
Vampire, Infinite Hatred, Cadaverous Cuirass, Blood Drinker 155
Vampire, Dark Acolyte, Summon Ghouls, Armor of the Night 170

20x Grave Guad Seneschal, Mucisian, Standard bearer w/ Banner of the Barrows 315

1x Varghulf 175

Vampire Lord, Master of the Black Arts, Dark Acolyte, Summon Ghouls, Armor of the Night, Dispell Scroll 350

Are any of these any good?