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This came up the other day.

Konrad (Vampire Counts, pg. 62) is in a unit of skeletons with the Banner of Hellfire (grants flaming attacks, VC pg. 87).

They are in combat with a large unit of Tree Kin.

Konrad is suffering from Frenzy via his own rules, and swings with his 5 WS7, S5 hatred attacks.

Assuming he is rolling really well today, he causes 5 wounds with his 5 attacks.

Due to his sword's special rules, these 5 wounds are multiplied to 10.

Due to his banner granting flaming attacks, and Tree Kin being flammable, these 10 wounds are multiplied to 20.

Due to Konrad's Red Fury ability, he gets to make 20 more attacks, also rerolling misses.

If all these wound, that's another 80 wounds (20 x 2 x 2), for a total of 100 wounds, from Konrad.

Legit, albeit extremely hypothetical?

yes, totally legal....but the chances that anyone would play a unit of trees large enough to be affected by this are next to 0.

now ogres against conrad - that is a different story. that guy has a knife that gets +9 against ogres.

But, on the bright side, he is realtively easy to beat up with even Rank and File troops.

Actualy it would not be legal. As a model (not in a challenge) cannot receive more wounds than he has. So this would cap him out at 3 Wounds per model rather than 4. In this case he would get some where around 60 wounds max on 3 wound models.

Sorry NEgativemonkey, but no models damage is limited to it's opponents in BTB.

Thus, until the unit is wiped out, seeing as there is nothing left to allocate wounds to, you just keep on killing, regardless.

that guy has a knife that gets +9 against ogres.

Nice quote Harv. I loved that skit. It was even better when they did it with 3D characters in the Summoner for PS2. Such good times.

The Rules for Multi wound models limit the number of wounds that a single attack can do to the amount of wounds remaining on that model. There is a good example of this in the BRB. This does mean that at no point will Konrad do more than 3 wounds per attack as they are limited to the remaining wounds on the Treekin. Wounds that were multiplied do not carry over from one model to the next.

are you sure it wouldn't go like this?

konrad has 5 attacks (3+1+1) that hit on 3+ with a re-roll, then wound the trees on 4+, they save on a 6+, and anything left is multiplied by 2 for his sword (and then by 2 again for being flaming). this number is probably around 7 or 8.

then the final # is how many attacks he gets in the next round of attacks. 8 x .88 x .5 x .83 x 2 x 2 = 11 or so.

...for a combined total of around 17 or 18 wounds to the trees.

what i'm saying (or actually asking): is there a per-model cap on wounds (anything that isn't an odd # is lost in the case of the tree kin), or do you just do X wounds, apply them to the existing models, then remove casualties as usual?

i would say it's the latter.

With wound multiplication (which is what happens in this case) a model cannot be wounded more than his remaining number of wounds. With the only exception being in a Challenge. So while 4 wounds would be the resulting number after multiplication to a Treekin only 3 will actually be cause as the model cannot be wounded more than 3 times.

This is the same principal when applied to a unit of Dryads. As they only have a single wound the wounds would not be multiplied amongst them as each one can only be wounded a single time.

Dryads aren't flammable, either. (not that it matters here)

They aren't Flammable because they have only one wound and the rule would not make sense. But I do believe if they had 2 wounds they would be. Not that it matters because if they did have 2 wounds my point would be moot.

i think there is some confusion here. i can inflict 50 wounds on a unit, even if the unit only has 30 wounds. the only time excess wounds caused (that go unsaved) count for anything is in a challenge. but you don't actually apply wounds to individual models until after you fail your saves.

so in the case of a flammable unit with saves, you would do hits, wounds, saves, determine # of failed saves (wounds inflicted) and then double that - then apply the wounds to the models.

so you cause 14 unsaved wounds to a unit of treekin, x2 = 28, then you would remove 9 of them, and then there would be one remaining 'floating' wound on the unit.

HarveyDent, I'm not sure where you are getting your information from but no model may be wounded more than its remaining wounds when the initial wounds are allocated.

For a unit consisting of 3 wound models if 2 wounds are done to the unit and doubled they are only applied to a single model and the maximum wounds that can be caused in this situation is 3. Now if the same unit had a wounded model then 2 wounds (1 hit) would go on the first model and then 2 would go onto the second.

This is how the rule book describes wound allocation and it is very clear about this.