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I am starting a CSM army and have two questions.

The CSM wargear section clearly states that all marines have a bolter, a bolt pistol, and a CC weapon. Now I remember reading somewhere (on this forum in fact, I believe) that a marine may choose which "loadout" he wishes to use in a turn, either bolter or bolt pistol/CC weapon.

Which brings me to my first question. Where is this covered in the rulebook in case anyone challenges this?

The second question is about WYSIWYG rules. I am very new to the tourney scene and am building this army with the intent of tourney play. Do all three weapons need to be modeled in the strictest tourney settings? If I try to say that my model which is holding a bolter is using his CC weapon will people give me problems if it is not modeled with a CC weapon?

Thanks
-pfoh

Only if they are over 40, have a beard and generally lose most of their games.

I forgot that they also need a sizable gut. Think Ogre Kingdoms.

ok well thanks for the quick reply

i have an additional question about the actual mechanics of this. this is where it might be helpful if someone could point me to the place in the rulebook where this is discussed.

if i use my bolter and am charged the same turn it is clear that i am not using my pistol/CC weapon and dont get +1 A. however, can i, in my next turn, (assuming the same CC is still ongoing) switch to my pistol/CC weapon and get that extra attack? or are they restricted to using what they went into CC with?

Weapon use is by player turn, so if you move, then that knocks onto the shooting phase, and if you do something in the shooting phase, that knocks onto the assault phase. But in the following player turn you're welcome to use your pistol and close combat weapon on anyone that charges you. See p.35 of the rulebook.

If anyone has any arguments point them to the place in the codex that show's the bolter/bp/ccw entry then shut the book over their face!

Seriously though people have had over a year of the recent chaos dex, at people either to use the search function on forums and just read the damn book.

Since a bolter is a rapid fire weapon, you wouldn't be able to use the bolter and then charge.

@Nurglich, are you using the new rulebook? There is no such rule on page 35.

If you use an assault weapon in the shooting phase (flamer) you can use your pistol and close combat weapon in the assault phase.

pfoh wrote:The second question is about WYSIWYG rules. I am very new to the tourney scene and am building this army with the intent of tourney play. Do all three weapons need to be modeled in the strictest tourney settings? If I try to say that my model which is holding a bolter is using his CC weapon will people give me problems if it is not modeled with a CC weapon?

I tried modeling my first CSM with grenades, pistol, bolter, and CCW, but then I just gave up. In practice, as long as it's standard load out from the codex, you can model him with Pistol & CCW or Bolter and just assume the rest are there. I've never had anyone contest this point, but I also have never found any written rules which would back it up.

@ whitedragon - he meant use his bolter and then GET charged - more curious of the number of attacks he gets in the opponents turn.

@pfoh - i believe the 'extra' attack grant by the bolter/cc combo is built into the profile of the units, and therefore are not negated (unles the opponent has something that negates it)

Cake.

I think the confusion as to what you can use and when arises from Fantasy Battle, where once combat begins, if you have a choice of Weapons, you have to stick with what you used in the First Round.

An example is Empire Halberdiers with Shields. They are listed as having Halberd, Hand Weapon, and Shield. In the first round of combat, I must declare whether I am using the Halberd, or Hand Weapon and Shield, before any attacks are allocated or dice rolled.

In 40k however, no such limitation exists, at least, as far as I know. Ergo, One could Rapid Fire at a nearby enemy in your turn, and when he assaults, whip out the Bolt Pistol and CC Weapon.

As to WYSIWYG, that generally only applies to 'non standard' kit, such as Special and Heavy Weapons, and any upgrades on unit leaders, characters and Tanks. Thus, as the Standard Chaos Space Marine has no choice in what he takes to battle, WYSIWYG should not be applied strictly beyond the examples above. However, if you have chosen to give your Aspiring Champion a Powerfist, for example, this must be physically modelled on the chap in question.

If someone is being particularly pig headed about it, in a desperate attempt to win some kind of perceived advantage, that Knives are CC Weapons, and a simply Holster can represent any type of Pistol.

So, in summary, if it is an *optional* weapon (Orks for example must choose between Slugga & Choppa OR Shoota) it should be modelled appropriately.

In regards to WYSIWYG, I've got a friend who's building a CSM army and has been using a dremel and rare earth magnets to make sure he has all of the weapon options at his disposal. It's handy and looks good, too (I've been magneting my IG Sentinels as well).

It just seems wierd to me that you could use a 2 handed weapon like that in the shooting phase then another in the assault phase. I general feeling seems to be that its legal.

If you shoot the bolter, you're not charging. So, it'd be at least the opponent's turn before you're in assault.

Like Mad Doc Grotsnik says, you can use different weapons in each phase of the game. It's Fantasy where you have to commit to your weapon choice for the turn.

A lot of weapons have rules which which will limit what you can do in following phases, but if you could use three different weapons in a turn:
Shoot one weapon in the shooting phase;
Use two different weapons in the assault phase (two random close combat weapons).

Various codices have restricted how many weapons a model could carry, but once you have it you could juggle all you wanted.

I think technically a monstrous creature could use four different weapons that way but I can't think of an example. Probably Tyranids could do it.

i haven't modeled mine and no ones ever given me a problem with it
i thinks its kinda dumb to model every piece of wargear on a model with so much

WC_Brian wrote:
Only if they are over 40, have a NECKbeard and generally lose most of their games.

Fixed typo.

Before the latest Chaos codex was released I had a two Chaos Marine squads armed with bolt pistols and close combat weapons. When the new codex came out, I just mixed all my Chaos Marines together. So some of my guys have pistols & ccw while others have bolters. No one has ever pressed me on it as they are both legal representations from the codex. However, I have had some people confuse the pistol & ccw weilding figures for Khorne bezerkers (even though they are painted up as Iron Warriors). Now, I'm always sure to point out before the game starts that they are just standard Chaos Marines.