Arion wrote:I think Brets would be best for this build. in fact I KNOW it. i have a friend that runs an all cav bret list and it is near impossible to stop unless you play your cards just right. . take a Unit of knight of the Relm as I thiunk they are required, a unit of Knight Errent(immune to Psyc on the charge), a unit of grails, load up your general and BSB(also required) a damsel, and then fill out the rest with knights. the ultimate point and click army. charge on the second turn, break the unit, turn around on the third turn, charge the fourth turn and watch his army run like hell.
Unless you're playing
VC. Or to a slightly lesser extent
TK and Dwarves.
As for a Bret list:
Lord
BSB
Damsel
Either another Damsel or another Paladin, your option.
9 Knights of the Realm
9 Knights Errant
20 Skirmishing Bowmen
5 Mounted Yeomen, Musician
3 Pegasus Knights
Grail Reliquae with 13 bonus for a total of 19 pilgrims
6 or so Grail Knights.
Some things to know about Brets.
Rule #1 Thou Shall Not Have A Magic Phase
Rule #2 See Rule number 1.
Other little tidbits. If you don't take any peasants, most people won't like you. Most folks will call it more Bretonian cheese, power list, whatever. Strangely taking just one unit of bigger than minimum size peasants will prevent more than half of that stuff. It will also be much much easier to win. Peasants are your whoops! button, especially against undead. Think of them as goblins/gnoblars.
The bowmen are exceptional on a value per point basis. The Grail Reliquae likewise. Stubborn, Hatred,
Ld 8, LA +
HW and shield in
CC, blessing of the lady, always makes at least 4 attacks per round... Its a great tarpit.
Their knights are all at worst "not bad".
Compared to Empire:
Ranks
Brets rank in 3's, Knightly Orders in 5's I think. On the charge, the front three, and the knight model on each side make attacks. For knightly orders, only the front 5. When charged, and on subsequent rounds of combat, only the front three for Brets (though on the charge you probably won and could freely reform) Advantage: Usually Brets.
Unit Upgrades:
Brets always get a free champion. Boo Yah! Brets.
Characters:
Bret Lords have a slight, slight edge over Templar Grand Masters due entirely to the virtue system and slightly better (more cavalry focused) magic item and mount choices. Paladins ace out Empire Captains for the same reasons as well as Vows. Damsels vs Battle Wizards is a 6-5 and pick'em stalemate. Battle Wizards have better Lores to choose from. Damsels have MR1. Neither side realistically has enough bound spells to guarantee anything getting through in the magic phase, nor does either side realistically have a shot at taking a Lord Level magic user, and staying true to their Cavalry strength. Kurt Helborg is cheap enough as a special character to give a Bretonian Lord a run for his money, though I'd still rather build my own Bret Lord.
Core knights comparison:
The first unit of Knights Errant(
KE) can pretty easily edge out a core Knightly Order(
KO). Knights of the Realm (
KoTR) are one point more (not counting the free Champ) The second unit of
KE and beyond are definitely substandard to Knightly Order, but barely so- And cheaper.
Peasants vs State Troops. Again I'd give the advantage to Bret Peasants for strange reasons. Bret peasants are worse. They're cheaper. You can get more bang for your point. They don't hurt as much when they fail. Peasants don't panic your knights. Also their standards aren't worth
VP's. So for the extra point per model for foot combat troops, you can panic your knights, and give the opponent
VPs for capturing your standard. Ranged troops for the Empire are actually pretty even.. they're more expensive but they're mostly more effective too... S4 Armor piercing 24" range is probably a shade better than Skirmishing Peasant bowmen for 1 point less. However they're nice enough, and have enough bells and whistles options to distract you from your knights.
Specials:
Fast Cav:
Huge, huge, huge, beyond compare edge to Empire. Pistoliers leave Mounted Yeomen in the dust wondering just what the competition was.
The rest don't really translate well in comparison, but following the comparison of Handgunners to Peasant Bowmen, most Empire specials are warmachines that would be too distracting to the knigh focus of your army theme. Too easy to sink points in it. Plus the Grail Reliquae and Pegasus Knights are pretty hard to pass up.
Rares:
Grail Knights and a Trebuchet vs two Hel-Something or Others, a Steam Tank, and Flagellants. Tough Call. Grail Knights are some of the best knights in the game period. If they're not the best, they're likely top 3. Basically 1 wound heros. The Trebuchet is OK, but nothing special. Great against eggs-in-a-basket sitting ducks like hell cannons and against chariots. Anything highly manouverable and/or massed infantry.... not so much.
Incidentals:
Warhorses- Brets outcharge Empire, as Brets don't suffer the barding penalty
Armor Saves: Brets are stuck in Heavy Armor, while Empire has Full Plate. Somewhat offset by the Blessing of the Lady providing a ward save- which is fairly useful in a low model count army like a mostly cavalry army.
A mostly knight Bret army is better as a stand-alone army than the Brets. A mostly knight Empire army is better as a starter to morph it into other flavors and will most likely end up morphing into other versions of the Empire Army, i.e. Gunline.
