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So when it comes to gunners on a horse what makes pistoliers the more used choice over outriders? Isn't 3 shots at 24" as opposed to 2 shots at 8" worth 3 points? I know to you WHFB pros this is prolly a dumb question, but I am still new to fantasy.

Aztralwolf wrote:So when it comes to gunners on a horse what makes pistoliers the more used choice over outriders? Isn't 3 shots at 24" as opposed to 2 shots at 8" worth 3 points? I know to you WHFB pros this is prolly a dumb question, but I am still new to fantasy.

The beauty of pistoliers is that they can shoot on the move and they are our only access to Fast Cavalry. They don't ahve the prominence they had in the last edition, but they are by no means a poor choice. Never hurts to add a little mobility to our lines.

Pistoliers gain an additional attack in close combat with an additional point of strength in the first round. Furthermore, pistoliers can move and shoot, which effectively increases their range and finally the fact that they are cheaper makes them a better choice for luring/ sacraficing as the give up fewer victory points. Hope that helps.

the main use for pistorlies is to place them on the flank of a unit so they can't march. you fire away with your pistols and they can't charge you. then you move ontoanother unit

ahhh many thanks you guys. after carefully rereading over the book + reading all you've said I realized what I was missing... move or fire lol. Silly mistake for me to make, but honestly when it comes to rules my ONLY experience is with wood elves. Many thanks to all. And honestly while I still have all of you... as far as tactically, practically etc... how would you all rate the 3 basic empire footmen (spears, swords, and halberds)? Are any of them useless and are any absolute must have, if you dont have them you should stop playing good? As to knights... which is better lance/shield, or GW? (im assuming lance/shield) And and lastly how about in the shooty department? Handguns, Crossbows, or plain bows? (same question as with footmen for melee)

Thank you all so much in advance!

I, personally, prefer to use handgunners, as my regular WHFB opponent plays Bretonnians, and I need the armour piercing to make my shots count. Against more numerous with poor armour, crossbows are better for the longer range.

When it comes to CC soldiers I use solid blocks of swordsmen for the parent units, with detatchments of halberdiers to countercharge. Swordsmen are best at taking charges because they have the best armour save and a higher initiative. The halberdiers then counter charge and actually cause some casualties with their higher strength.

With knights I use lance/shield as I can still get a 2+ armour save against S4 shooting. The main purpose of knights is to charge and smash units aside in the first round of combat, so the +2S is most important then.

Hope that helps and feel free to disagree!

nope, what you said is what I was gathering reading over the army book, I was just hoping I wasn't missing something like with pistoliers. Thank you for your help.

with rating the 3 basic units swordsman are number 1, spearman number 2 and halberdiers number 3

For the pitoliers.

You throw in a warrior priest as well and they will steam roll any flankers in the game (baring etherals).

Pistoliers take a bit of getting used to before they start to work, but once you are able to use them effectively they can be a severe thorn in your opponents side.

Swordsmen number 1 by a mile, then spears, then halbardiers.

I'd say for missile troops it depends on the opponent.. If they will be coming to you go for handgunners, the extra -1 to save will really help.
However if playing against a camper (those stupid dwarf armies spring to mind) the extra range of the x-bows will be invaluable.

I kind of agree with the Nad.

However, I tend to stick a Captain in with my Pistoliers. Beauty here is that the Fast Cav retain their status, and the Character gains most of it (except the 360 shooting).

With this badboy sitting in the unit, you can roll up a units flank without too much hassle. I wouldn't reccomend depending on it to win you the battle (if you do, your opponents will soon get wise to this and ensure they are blasted to bits before they get up to mischief).

My favourite trick is to manouver them up behind the enemy, and pick off a rank here, a rank there from various unit, before jumping the enemy General from behind. Using this, I've had my Pistoliers take out a Stunty General AND his Ironbreakers. Was a beautiful sight. Warrior Priest can perform much the same, but 1) is more expensive and 2) due to Hatred, you can find your unit in an extremely bad place...) Best to keep Warrior Priests on the ground if you ask me!

I use spearmen for looks and for defensive blocks - units that have my scroll caddy, for instance, that I want sitting still and anchoring a flank, not running around and looking for a fight.

Halbrediers, even as detachments, are pretty worthless. Swordsmen are great for parent blocks AND detachments, because with WS4 and a 4+ armor save (opposed to the Halbrediers' 6+) in close combat means that the detachment will deny ranks, add +1, AND probably live. All too often Free company/Halbrediers that flank charge just get murdered and end up doing nothing.

For the same price, you can take Halberdiers with Shields, or Swordsmen.

Where the Swordsmen have higher I and WS, the Halberdiers offer versatility, as they can strike at S4 if you feel you need to.

And since Empire shouldn't be fighting in CC that is even remotely fair, this is why I don't use Swordsmen at all. My army depends on it's ability to knock off ranks at range, and use the Detachments to pull off highly favourable charges. When it works (not all the time, but a sure tactic is a boring one to my mind) you don't need the extras Swordsmen offer. And when it doesn't, that S4 can sure come in handy.....

As to Flanking detachments getting slaughtered, I say nonsense. When I engage a flank with a Detachment, before any blows are struck, that unit will have swung things in my favour by a mighty 5 points. How do I get to 5? Well, I strip off 3 Ranks, and retain my own. Thats 3 points right there. Then, I get +1 for Flank Charge, taking me up to 4. And generally speaking, at this point I WILL be outnumbering. This now means my opponent, fighting on two fronts, has to score 6 points to win the combat, with anything else becoming either a loss or a draw. Well worth the paltry points they cost me. Plus, I find Detachments actually slow my opponent down. Because this advantage can be circumvented, he is a lot less likely to just rush headlong into combat. This can buy me an extra turn of manouvering, shooting and Magic, something which against Empire, most opponents can ill afford. Especially if I have a unit of nutty-nut-nut Flagellants whooping and shrieking, willing to tie up his best unit.....

Wield your army as a whole. Look for synergy not just in your list and deployment, but turn to turn. With the variety of troops Empire can field, it is difficult for your opponent to second guess what you are taking.

WeeHessy wrote:Pistoliers gain an additional attack in close combat with an additional point of strength in the first round.

This statement isn't correct anymore, is it? I thought the pistol rules changed, but I'm not with my book right now...

RZ

Indeed it is not. The Fusilade rule is no longer in effect.

Sorry, didn't have my book on me so I forgot.

One thing I noticed that wasn't mentioned about pistoliers= Feighned Flight, that comes in handy to lure your foes closer for more gunfire.

True, but sounding a bit snobbish, I've always found that when I have to use Feigned Flight with Pistoliers, I've usually left them open to a charge I did not expect.

And with the Pistols, it's usually best to stand and fire. One guy tried to triple charge my Pistoliers with 5 Spider Riders, 1 Boar Chariot and 5 Wolf Riders. Standing and firing, I took out the Chariot, the Wolf Riders panicked, and then the Spider Riders fluff their combat.

However, YMMV, as it depends on how you use them. Me, straight up the flank, and into the midst of the enemy army to make a nuisance of themselves. Having two units working in tandem on opposite flanks helps this somewhat though. A single unit will probably need to be more cautious.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Where the Swordsmen have higher I and WS, the Halberdiers offer versatility, as they can strike at S4 if you feel you need to.

And since Empire shouldn't be fighting in CC that is even remotely fair, this is why I don't use Swordsmen at all. My army depends on it's ability to knock off ranks at range, and use the Detachments to pull off highly favourable charges. When it works (not all the time, but a sure tactic is a boring one to my mind) you don't need the extras Swordsmen offer. And when it doesn't, that S4 can sure come in handy.....

That's just it, the higher WS of the Swordsmen is all-important. Empire win by static res. Swordsmen, with WS 4, ensure that most enemies will be hitting on 4's instead of 3's, which is a HUGE difference. Halbrediers are attempting to, ya know, kill models, and that's not something empire state troops are particularly good at.

Anyone that dangerous either get shot to bits by the Pistoliers, or gets Sigmars Imperial Tramp Corp (Flagellants) down their manor and sleeping on their benches.

The softer stuff is taken out by the Detachments. As I explained earlier, any unit in the flank, against most enemies (literally a few notable exceptions) will bring far more to the combat than they are likely to lose.

Take Dwarves for instance...T4, Heavy Armour and Shield. When flanked by Halberds, they get a 5+ save, NOT a 3+. Thats awesome. Thats half the chance by a combination of weapons and flank.

But what do I know. I'm only a successful Empire General with no Swordsmen in my army, so clearly I don't actually exist.