2,000 Point Death Guard - Two Interchangeable Army Lists

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**Starfarer**

I've been working on building a fluffy but effective list for my Death Guard for 5th Edition and have experimented with a number of different builds. I think I finally found a good combination that stays true to the Death Guard's tactics while allowing me to run a list with daemons(something I really prefer for CSMs) and one slightly different list without Daemons in exchange for a bit more infantry units.

The Daemon List:

HQ

Chaos Lord - 165
- Terminator Armor
- Mark Of Nurgle
- Daemon Weapon

Greater Daemon - 100

Elites
Chaos Terminators(6) - 285
- Mark of Nurgle
- Lightning Claws x3
- Champion x3
- Heavy Flamer

Troops

Plague Marines(7) - 236
- Plague Champion
- Powerfist
- Personal Icon
- Plasmagun x2

Plague Marines(7) - 236
- Plague Champion
- Powerfist
- Personal Icon
- Plasmagun x2

Plague Marines(7) - 216
- Plague Champion
- Power Weapon
- Personal Icon
- Meltagun x2

Plague Marines(7) - 201
- Plague Champion
- Personal Icon
- Meltagun x2

Lesser Daemons(10) - 130

Lesser Daemons(10) - 130

Heavy Support

Obliterator Cult(2) - 150

Obliterator Cult(2) - 150

Total - 1,999 Points

The Extra Infantry List:

HQ

Chaos Lord - 165
- Terminator Armor
- Mark Of Nurgle
- Daemon Weapon

Elites
Chaos Terminators(6) - 285
- Mark of Nurgle
- Lightning Claws x3
- Champion x3
- Heavy Flamer

Dreadnought - 110
- Twin Linked Heavy Bolter
- Heavy Flamer

Troops

Plague Marines(7) - 236
- Plague Champion
- Powerfist
- Personal Icon
- Plasmagun x2

Plague Marines(7) - 236
- Plague Champion
- Powerfist
- Personal Icon
- Plasmagun x2

Plague Marines(7) - 236
- Plague Champion
- Powerfist
- Personal Icon
- Plasmagun x2

Plague Marines(7) - 216
- Plague Champion
- Power Weapon
- Personal Icon
- Meltagun x2

Plague Marines(7) - 216
- Plague Champion
- Power Weapon
- Personal Icon
- Meltagun x2

Heavy Support

Obliterator Cult(2) - 150

Obliterator Cult(2) - 150

Total - 2,000 Points

Comments and suggestions are greatly appreciated!

**wuestenfux**

Daemons in CSM armies suck. Therefore I vote for the 2nd list.

**Starfarer**

Care to elaborate or did you just stop by to regurgitate the endless complaints about Daemons in the CSM codex?

Daemons got alot better in 5th edition. If people would actually take the time to reevaluate the strengths of a units in 5th they would see they they don't suck at all.

**DAaddict**

Both lists are fine... Just wondering avoiding Typhus for a reason? Seems like a good fit for your 1st list.

My only argument for the 2nd list being better is that the generic demons and demon lord will be harassment units for the most part.
No FnP, no 5 T, nothing but a 5+ invuln. If they all come in near the same time, and off the right unit (Don't really want to eat an aspiring champion with a power fist...) You have a wonderful surprise to drop on someone.

**Starfarer**

I just don't really have the points for Typhus. He is alot better than a standard Daemon Weapon equipped Lord but I'm not really sure there's anything I want to sacrifice to get him in the list.

I've been running daemons in my previous 2,000 point list but there were 3 squads of 7 LD and the GD. I found the 7 man units were picked apart alot easier so I think 2 larger units will work better. And you are right about them all coming in at once. I cleared a whole flank of an Ork horde army that way.

**GMMStudios**

I dont really like Typhus, compared to a prince is he really worth the difference?

I dunno...

**tokugawa**

If Typhus's toughness has a real 5,he will be more popular and certainly worth the points....

Sadly,he has only a fake 5,not a real 5.

**Sushicaddy**

I don't know about the greater demon in this list, as you will be losing a very expensive model to bring the GD in.

that being said, I think the deamon list is very nice., running plauge marines will get close, as the deamons springing from them will do well in assault.

As small Lesser deamon squads vs large, small sqauds=more scoring units, large squads=more resilient. I think 10 man squads is a good comprimise.

**Starfarer**

Sushicaddy wrote:I don't know about the greater demon in this list, as you will be losing a very expensive model to bring the GD in.

that being said, I think the deamon list is very nice., running plauge marines will get close, as the deamons springing from them will do well in assault.

As small Lesser deamon squads vs large, small sqauds=more scoring units, large squads=more resilient. I think 10 man squads is a good comprimise.

I just had an thought after thinking about your response. How do you think dropping the GD and adding 10 more lesser daemons would work? That's an extra scoring unit and even more bodies to distract and/or support the plaguemarines.

**Regwon**

lesser demons do suck, even in 5th, and here's why;

Demons have no guns, so they are only good in CC

They have the same combat prowess as a CSM.

They have a worse save than CSM

The save that they do have is worthless at range with the prelevance of cover saves in 5th

They cannot effectively win combats against anything that is better than a marine in combat. Most of the time they wont even win combat against marines.

When they lose combat, they will take a load of extra wounds, due to them being fearless, and so any damage they could cause in subsequest rounds is serverely mitigated.

They cost 2pts less than a CSM for the same profile, worse armour and no guns. to make them even considered they would have to become 10pts a piece.

the thought that they are good at holding objectives in incorrect because, although they cant be shot off an objective, they will die in combat to almost anything, and since they have no guns, if they are sat on an objective they can no longer contribute to the battle.

i will post coments on your army lists when i have more time.

**orkyboss30000**

well i've been taking (for a khorne list but it could work here) lesser demons and raptors with an icon so the raptors go to the objective and but the demons there while flying off and killing the closest threats so one does'nt do anything except hold the far objective and you could try that if you put some plague marines in rhinos

**Regwon**

in regard to your first list:

Lords are bad. demon princes are better. for the same points cost you could have a prince with wings, MoN and nurgles rot. much better and helps you out with horde.

greater demons arent that good. they become terrible if you have to sacrifice a 63pt PM champion or a 50pt terminator champion. id always prefer 100pts of something else.

your terminators dont need champions. spend the points on a couple of powerfists/ another terminator or some combi-bolters.

i would give at least one more unit of PM meltas, possibly all of them. they also wont need the icons.

demons are rubbish and you should drop them for more oblits, which you will need to better kill tanks and horde.

in regard to your second list:

lord and terminators suffer the same problems as before.

chaos dreadnoughts are awful. half the time they wont do what you want them to. some of the time they will be shooting your own guys. it will also get shot to pieces on the first turn because it is your only vehicle. scrap it and get more oblits.

your PM dont really need those icons.

your second list is better because demons will lose you more games then they will win. the dred sticks out like a sore thumb, but you can get rid of that easily.

**Starfarer**

Regwon wrote:in regard to your first list:

Lords are bad. demon princes are better. for the same points cost you could have a prince with wings, MoN and nurgles rot. much better and helps you out with horde.

greater demons arent that good. they become terrible if you have to sacrifice a 63pt PM champion or a 50pt terminator champion. id always prefer 100pts of something else.

your terminators dont need champions. spend the points on a couple of powerfists/ another terminator or some combi-bolters.

i would give at least one more unit of PM meltas, possibly all of them. they also wont need the icons.

demons are rubbish and you should drop them for more oblits, which you will need to better kill tanks and horde.

in regard to your second list:

lord and terminators suffer the same problems as before.

chaos dreadnoughts are awful. half the time they wont do what you want them to. some of the time they will be shooting your own guys. it will also get shot to pieces on the first turn because it is your only vehicle. scrap it and get more oblits.

your PM dont really need those icons.

your second list is better because demons will lose you more games then they will win. the dred sticks out like a sore thumb, but you can get rid of that easily.

I actually usually run the DP with the exact setup you listed. It works well but on it's own it draws alot of attention even when I use mobile cover to advance it. The Lord is just something I wanted to try as an alternative running it with the termie squad.

As for the daemons in general, I maybe should have prefaced my first post a little better by stating that I play for fun. I'm not a WAAC gamer nor do I put too much emphasis on building rock hard lists. I like to tell stories with my games and certain units just really appeal to me for that reason. Gribbling hordes of daemon bursting from the warp into the enemy ranks is just a cool image and so it's something I like to include in my army. I do wish they were a bit better in the codex, or at least a bit cheaper, but it's not going to stop me from fielding units I like. Plus they did get a boost in 5th edition by becoming scoring units and that's a plsu for me as I would field them anyway.

Dreadnoughts are similar in that regard. One of my favorite units when I started was the dreadnought. I love the look of them and the idea of a raging machine hell bent on bringing death to anything it can. Sure, I hope it's the enemy and not me but I look at the dread instability table the same as I view plasma overheats, it's probably going to get you once and awhile but it doesn't stop me from fielding them. That's not to say I use them every game, because I don't but in this list I think it fits with the fluff of Death Guard having massed infantry and dreads and Oblits for support.