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 Desubot wrote:
Eh this collections edition seems kinda meh this time around.

Lack of objective markers is disappointing.




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 NivlacSupreme wrote:
Reivers are expensive but come with tons of options.

There's like 24 heads in there.

Just realized reiver heads would be sick for helmeted scouts.

You wouldn't even have to have any headless ones!

This is also the first kit I've seen where they point out that you can build two Sarges.

 NivlacSupreme wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Eh this collections edition seems kinda meh this time around.

Lack of objective markers is disappointing.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 NivlacSupreme wrote:
Reivers are expensive but come with tons of options.

There's like 24 heads in there.

Just realized reiver heads would be sick for helmeted scouts.

You wouldn't even have to have any headless ones!

This is also the first kit I've seen where they point out that you can build two Sarges.

It explicitly states it is designed to build two Squads. I will be doing just that. One squad with Bolt Carbines, the other with Combat Knives. I am not sure on which deployment method method though. They cost the same but do different things.

 Desubot wrote:
Eh this collections edition seems kinda meh this time around.

Lack of objective markers is disappointing.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 NivlacSupreme wrote:
Reivers are expensive but come with tons of options.

There's like 24 heads in there.

Just realized reiver heads would be sick for helmeted scouts.

we did just get the markers with dark Imperium, GW proably figured they'll not be able to beat those

Yeah, ravenguard aggressors are hot. 43 points for either the flamer setup or the shooter setup. Shooty ones really do put out the dakka for their points if they don't move. 6+d6 bolter shots per model? Twice?

The 260 point big boy 6 man squad would do on average 114 bolter shots. That isn't quite storm raven efficiency, but I like it in a ravenguard list that wants to erase a screen.

EDIT: also, Dark Angels Redemptor Dreads are OP. If they stand next to Azrael they get a 4++ and reroll to hit. Bananas.

EDIT2: just going to hump this again. Ravenguard make reivers work correctly. You plop a 10 man blade squad down 9" away at top of the battle round. They move forwards 6". They actually get to use their grenades at 4"! LOLWTF! Shoot pistols at second rank of screen, make a no overwatch 3" charge on first rank.

EDIT3: checking out points and loadouts of the redemptor. This thing went from a must buy due how I love its appearance .. to a ... I don't know how i can play this at game empire. It is always around 200 points. It ends up having 18 heavy bolter shots + some incidental str 4 and d3 str 7 1 damage hits. But I have 2 painted inceptor squads on my desk. Why spend 65 bucks and a hell of a lot of work on a model that does the same thing? And they have all 'heavy' weapons that suck when moving. The plasma incerator would be good if you could take two of them. That you have to take a fist really makes this thing iffy.

I'm glad they didn't invalidate (I know you can take one sub-minimum model unit) the stuff that came in the starter box. I wasn't super looking forward to buying and/or building/painting another 3 inceptors. Glad I can keep both units of 3 via combat squadding.

For anyone that's interested, here are the power levels of the index units vs their new codex versions that we've seen.

Assault Cents are down to 12/13? from 15
Scout Bikes are down to 4 from 5
Inceptors (the jump ones) are up to 10 from 8
Devastators are up to 8 from 7
Dev Cents are up to 19 from 17
Hellblasters dropped way down to 8 from 12
Stormhawk Interceptors are up to 10 from 9

Eveyrthing else stayed the same as far as I can make out, so at the very least power levels ARE changing, so we can expect points to change as well.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Matched Play points values PDF has been updated as well

Link?

The models depicted for the Intercessors and Hellblasters show that there will be kits for those with additional options, but the Starter Set kits will be valid and still pretty good. The Hellblaster variant in Dark Imperium is a good middle ground between the heavy and assault variants. Honestly, it is the version I would have gone with anyway. Truthfully, I don't seem much of a purpose behind the heavy variant, since it is just a shorter ranged, lower power lascannon. The Intercessors don't appear to have anything additional on them, but there could still be options. My guess is the Sergeant will get some options added (the Hellblaster Sergeant can take a Plasma Pistol). The Inceptors have a cool plasma version, but my guess is that it will be a lot more points.


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General Hobbs wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Matched Play points values PDF has been updated as well

Link?

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/Downloads/K3ns3JDOGE2asjf/Primaris-week-3/239fhfght_ENG_Primaris_Marines_Release_03_July_22nd.pdf

General Hobbs wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Matched Play points values PDF has been updated as well

Link?

On this page.

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Space-Marine-Primaris-Heroes-2017

 Perth wrote:

General Hobbs wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Matched Play points values PDF has been updated as well

Link?

On this page.

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Space-Marine-Primaris-Heroes-2017

Thanks! So Bolter Drill...spend 1 CP a shooting phase, your bolt weapons get an extra shot for every 6 rolled? Is that army wide or 1 CP per unit? ( this and Strike from the Shadows are the two Stratagems I'm dying for more info about).

260 points of Tactical marines generate 40 boltgun shots at 12".
260 points of Aggressors who don't move generate ~114 boltgun shots at 18".

The Tacs have 20 T4 3+ wounds
The Aggressors 12 T5 3+ wounds

I'm confused. Reivers' bolt carbines seem (as far as I can decipher the blurry image) to have the exact same profile than the auto bolt rifles currently have... So, um,what?

Wulfey wrote:
260 points of Tactical marines generate 40 boltgun shots at 12".
260 points of Aggressors who don't move generate ~114 boltgun shots at 18".

The Tacs have 20 T4 3+ wounds
The Aggressors 12 T5 3+ wounds

How are you getting 114 boltgun shots?
Its 6 shots each. They shoot twice, making 12 shots each. There's 4 of them, so that's 48 shots.
They don't have 2 auto boltstorm gauntlets, they have 1. The pair counts as a single weapon. Read their loadout more carefully.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Wulfey wrote:
260 points of Tactical marines generate 40 boltgun shots at 12".
260 points of Aggressors who don't move generate ~114 boltgun shots at 18".

The Tacs have 20 T4 3+ wounds
The Aggressors 12 T5 3+ wounds

How are you getting 114 boltgun shots?
Its 6 shots each. They shoot twice, making 12 shots each. There's 4 of them, so that's 48 shots.
They don't have 2 auto boltstorm gauntlets, they have 1. The pair counts as a single weapon. Read their loadout more carefully.

260 points gets you 6 models, they are 43 points a piece.
Each model gets 6 shots from the gauntlets, d6 shots from their grenade launcher on their head.
GL is 18", d6 shots, str4,0,1; just like a bolter and the gauntlets
So from 6 guys, that is 36+6d6.
If those 6 guys shoot twice, that gives you 72+12d6.

72+12d6 ~ 114.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Wulfey wrote:
260 points of Tactical marines generate 40 boltgun shots at 12".
260 points of Aggressors who don't move generate ~114 boltgun shots at 18".

The Tacs have 20 T4 3+ wounds
The Aggressors 12 T5 3+ wounds

How are you getting 114 boltgun shots?
Its 6 shots each. They shoot twice, making 12 shots each. There's 4 of them, so that's 48 shots.
They don't have 2 auto boltstorm gauntlets, they have 1. The pair counts as a single weapon. Read their loadout more carefully.

I think people think its two individual weapons when its actually listed as boltstorm gauntletS with an s.

edit: oh nvm i see

 Crimson wrote:
I'm confused. Reivers' bolt carbines seem (as far as I can decipher the blurry image) to have the exact same profile than the auto bolt rifles currently have... So, um,what?

aren't they shorter range than an auto bolt rifle?

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Wulfey wrote:
260 points of Tactical marines generate 40 boltgun shots at 12".
260 points of Aggressors who don't move generate ~114 boltgun shots at 18".

The Tacs have 20 T4 3+ wounds
The Aggressors 12 T5 3+ wounds

How are you getting 114 boltgun shots?
Its 6 shots each. They shoot twice, making 12 shots each. There's 4 of them, so that's 48 shots.
They don't have 2 auto boltstorm gauntlets, they have 1. The pair counts as a single weapon. Read their loadout more carefully.

6 aggressors with 6 shots plus d6 fragstorm shots. All are 18" bolters. 6 makes 36+6d6 shots or 57 on average. Doubled when not moving is 114.

Wulfey wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Wulfey wrote:
260 points of Tactical marines generate 40 boltgun shots at 12".
260 points of Aggressors who don't move generate ~114 boltgun shots at 18".

The Tacs have 20 T4 3+ wounds
The Aggressors 12 T5 3+ wounds

How are you getting 114 boltgun shots?
Its 6 shots each. They shoot twice, making 12 shots each. There's 4 of them, so that's 48 shots.
They don't have 2 auto boltstorm gauntlets, they have 1. The pair counts as a single weapon. Read their loadout more carefully.

260 points gets you 6 models, they are 43 points a piece.
Each model gets 6 shots from the gauntlets, d6 shots from their grenade launcher on their head.
GL is 18", d6 shots, str4,0,1; just like a bolter and the gauntlets
So from 6 guys, that is 36+6d6.
If those 6 guys shoot twice, that gives you 72+12d6.

72+12d6 ~ 114.

Ah right, they have nade launchers as well.
Yeah, that looks about right. That is scary.
And people were complaining about conscript blobs and RP. With that much fire power it won't matter.

Not that I'm saying its OP; its fairly short ranged and they have to be stationary in order to do it, meaning that its purely a defensive / reaction tactic with obvious limitations. Still handy though.

So the fact that the Repulsor can't transport regular Marines has killed my desire to own one (the overall ugly appearance doesn't help). So that is good. Money saved. Just the Apothecary next week hopefully.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
I'm confused. Reivers' bolt carbines seem (as far as I can decipher the blurry image) to have the exact same profile than the auto bolt rifles currently have... So, um,what?

aren't they shorter range than an auto bolt rifle?

It seems to me like 24, same as the auto bolt.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

Wulfey wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

Wulfey wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:
Is anyone able to enhance those pictures? I tried zooming in and rescaling and what not but I still can't read any of it.

Has FW said they will do chapter tactics for the Badab chapters?

You betcha they will - and they will be better than the space marine codex.

I disagree. Since that is old IP I don't think they will write new rules. My guess is that they will say:

Raptors -- Use Ravenguard tactics/strategems, but only Raptors characters
Minotaurs -- Use black templar tactics/strategems, but only minotaurs characters

etc.

Seems to run contrary to the very reason Forge World writes rules.

Writing 8-16 chapters worth of Relics, Warlord traits, Strategems, and Chapter tactics, and then testing them is big red book levels of work. Maybe they release a grand Codex Space Marines: Forgeworld Edition sometime next year. But before then, I think they will just say: "Use the plastic book's parent chapter rules, here are the parent linkages".

EDIT: why would they not charge money for so much work? We are paying 50$ for the development costs of the rules in the new Space Marine book.

No one said they wouldn't charge money for the book, no one said it would be anytime soon either, that was all implied by you when you simply said "I dont think they will write new rules". You sir, have been putting words in our mouth.

And they dont have to write relics, they only did that for the Red Scorpions. Warlord Traits can just be assigned to the Special Characters.Strategems could easily just be, use the codex ones.

Most of this book is not development. It's regurgitated "How a Space Marine is Made" hype stuff, photos, art.. some new a lot probably reused. My issue isn't paying for this book though.. it's paying almost as much as the entire mother freaking main rulebook just for rules for one army. I mean.. I'm sure the index books took a long time to develop.. but they were dirt cheap by comparison... and offered rules for numerous forces. This is just GW milking a cash cow and people are willing to get that "milk" all over their face and be happy about it so they will continue doing it. It's absurd that the book for one faction should be so similar in price to the main rulebook.. which was mostly fluff to boot.. I'm still excited about this edition and what all it entails but nobody is going to convince me that the MSRP on this codex is anywhere close to a reasonable price.

What about the unit entries not pictured? Anything about characters, established Marine vehicles, or the rumored Primaris Overlord flyer?

 SonicPara wrote:
What about the unit entries not pictured? Anything about characters, established Marine vehicles, or the rumored Primaris Overlord flyer?

There is no Overlord, that's confirmed. For now at least.

Youtube Review is up: https://youtu.be/qpvAr9DRmgQ

Tabletop Tactics have a video where they play a game with a preview copy of the codex and the new Dreadnought.




Some things to note:
> Ultramarines Relic is the Santic Halo - Gives a 3++ and allows the Bearer to Deny 1 power in the psychic phase.
> One Relic may be taken by 1 Space Marine Character if your Warlord is a Space Marine.
> There's a 1CP Stratagem that allows you to take 2 Relics rather than 1, and a 3CP Stratagem that allows you to take 3 rather than 1.
> The Redemptor Dread can be armed with a set of AA Missiles.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
The Redemptor Dread can be armed with a set of AA Missiles.

This is just a bonus.

Any points changes to the Razorback?

So taking a Relic takes up a Command Point and replaces certain types of wargear. That's kinda interesting. Not sure how I really feel though.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
So taking a Relic takes up a Command Point and replaces certain types of wargear. That's kinda interesting. Not sure how I really feel though.

I'm pretty sure it only costs CP if you take more than one (or at least, that's how I interpreted what TTT said in their battle report).

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
So taking a Relic takes up a Command Point and replaces certain types of wargear. That's kinda interesting. Not sure how I really feel though.

I'm pretty sure it only costs CP if you take more than one (or at least, that's how I interpreted what TTT said in their battle report).

Correct, the first one is free.

Ohm, now I just want 50 Reivers head to put them on all of my Primaris ...