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 Kanluwen wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I don't think these qualify as mixed units! They are pretty clean, same weapons on everyone, a few buff characters here or there but nothing that would require seperate dice rolling apart from the Shroud Queen. Totally in line with a normal AoS unit with command group. Nothing like the atrocity that is Zarbag's Gitz, or the Godsworn Hunt.

Except not really.

There's no handbows options(which we know are a thing), no magic+knife, etc.
It's all dumbed down to accommodate keeping it as one unit. Same as the Underworlds warbands always are. In 40k, these things would likely be a HQ+Elite+Troops choice that are all 'unique'.

Oh man I wish the Underworlds warbands were like this but actually they are more like "this unit has 7 goblins with 4 different weapon profiles between them including a netter who fights with a kinfe instead of his net, mixed wounds and special rules from 2 other units". Wouldbe better if they just statted up the hero and left the mooks to be used as alternate poses in regular units.

I for one am VERY glad they consolidate the various weapons down to a couple generic profiles. It is much easier to play with and the end result of damage caused is the same anyways.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I for one am VERY glad they consolidate the various weapons down to a couple generic profiles. It is much easier to play with and the end result of damage caused is the same anyways.

Which has nothing to do with the models themselves being consolidated into 'a couple generic profiles' in the case of these Underworld & WarCry warbands.

Just throw the non-generic models out as heroes or things purchased as part of the unit but acting separately like a mini-Warscroll Battalion.
Much, much, much better than pretending that there's some kind of rhyme or reason to the way it's been done now.

Malekith's new Elves are the Umbraneth following the somethingeth pattern.

 Eldarain wrote:
Malekith's new Elves are the Umbraneth following the somethingeth pattern.

So is the dark elf from the Silver Tower Warhammer Quest box a Morathi elf or a Malekith (or whatever he's called now) elf?
The new warband is neat, but the AoS tiny sub-factionalism is such a pain.

Tenebrael Shards were said to be Shadowkin, which is Malerions' faction of Aelves.
The Mistweaver Saih(mage version) was said to be Shadowkin as well.

It's really important to stress here that those two aren't an issue of 'tiny subfactionalism'. It's that they've reshuffled story arcs it seems.

NinthMusketeer wrote:Scions are all in the points cost. If they are cheap they could be a decent ranged support unit. But they need to be very cheap.

I'm 95% certain they will be 70 points in AoS. That's the points cost for every other Warcry cult for S2D.

Cronch wrote:
Khainities look useful (depending on points), Flameboys are as bad as all the other chaos warcry units in AoS proper.What is it with them that GW continues to make them so bad?I get what you are saying with their basic stats generally being pretty lackluster, but they aren't all bad. Splintered fang have decent damage because of MWs on 6s and a bit of extra survivability from snek regeneration. Cypher lords have a useful hit penalty ability. Iron golems are actually insanely good for their durability

I can't say anything about Splinter Fang really as I don't have them. However, Cypher Lords only have a 50/50 to a unit within 3" to generate that -1. Warcry cultists aren't exactly long for the world once they hit they hit the table, and it will take some work to get Cypher Lords to a target that is going to really get that -1 IF it even happens. That Bravery 5 they have also means going 'boo!' to going have them running away.

Iron Golems are okay-ish but a long way from "insanely good". There is a surprising lack of static objective missions (especially with the more current Battleplans) that will let you just sit a non-Leader, non-Battleline unit on a point on the battlefield. Age of Sigmar also seems to have a fair number of -1 Rend weapons when not playing S2D, and a +5 re-rolling Save isn't going always be worth the 20pts not spent to just get the same amount of wounds for Chaos Warriors get the same thing over 10 models keeping it on the move. Especially when you factor in Bravery losses. S2D is already a CP hungry faction so they don't got CP to auto-pass for chaff like them. So they are okay if your are looking for Chaos Warrior toughness and don't care at all about offensive output or moving much and already have your Battleline locked down.

NinthMusketeer wrote:Marauders are probably the strongest unit in the book for how absurdly powerful they are. It does tend to eliminate cultists as an option before they even get considered. Also, cultists need the undivided keyword.

I think even without considering Marauders (I know I don't due to what Marauders models look like and not having any), I think Warcry Cultists still come out to be a few too many points. I almost always play Ravagers for my S2D and exclusivly use Warcry cultists. They feel fine at basically 50pts (the cost of buying an extra CP) combined with free outflank type rules. Them not being able to take marks sorta hurts, but there are only so many Leaders/shrines to go around anyways. So I wouldn't be that bothered if they never can take Marks. Which lorewise does make sense. These cults aren't really on the Path to Glory yet and may not even truly understand capital 'C' Chaos yet.

I think 50pts, even 60pts could work, would make them a lot more attractive. That would allow them to be purchased in more nicely rounded points blocks. I kinda like the idea of them all having outflank type rules innately too (as it makes sense to me they would everywhere around a sizeable Chaos army as wannabes and hanger-ons). However, that definitely benefits some cults far more than others, and the ones that benefit the most are really the ones that need the most help either.

So as someone that does field a lot Warcry cultists and even usually plays Chaos Undivided, I am completely fine with them not having any Mark, even Undivided (especially considering what Undivided typically offers). I am also okay with Warcry cults staying Other in terms of FoC. Although, I do think there should be a subfaction that allows them as conditional Battleline. Just like I think there should be a real Chaos Warrior/Knight/Lord subfaction ('cause Ravagers ain't cuttin' it). I just want them to be a little less points intense so I can field more of them in the hopes maybe a few can survive a hit, or at very least make the Doom Sigil work really well.

That's my 2 cents on Warcry Cultists in Age of Sigmar

I would personally prefer their special abilities get better, bringing them up to par with Iron Golems and Splintered Fang, as well as a boost in number of attacks to get some realistic damage output.

The way one uses Cypher Lords is to put them behind another unit such that they will be pulled within 3" when the front unit gets charged granted they still aren't great but it's something. Iron Golems are 70 points for 10 wounds of 4+ rerollable if they did not make a normal move in the same turn (meaning they always have it in the enemy's turn) and bravery 8. They are amazing for objective camping or as chaff. For their cost they take a disproportionate amount of force to remove. Warriors are great, but need 200 points before they are re-rolling saves and are generally expected to do more than just stand somewhere.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I for one am VERY glad they consolidate the various weapons down to a couple generic profiles. It is much easier to play with and the end result of damage caused is the same anyways.

Which has nothing to do with the models themselves being consolidated into 'a couple generic profiles' in the case of these Underworld & WarCry warbands.

Just throw the non-generic models out as heroes or things purchased as part of the unit but acting separately like a mini-Warscroll Battalion.
Much, much, much better than pretending that there's some kind of rhyme or reason to the way it's been done now.

I can tell we have opposite opinions; I really like the way they have managed the warbands for AoS and wish they would do the Underworlds ones more like that. But I can also tell they have a clear & consistent design philosophy for translating each game even if the two are done differently.

Broken Realms website is up. There's a lot here, it might warrant starting a new thread just for Broken Realms as a series.

Anyways, here's the big announcement for Morathi's stuff. Book I features Daughters, Cities, Stormcast, Slaves to Darkness, and Idoneth. Two new cities, updated warscrolls for Idoneth, and some other jazz.

Well, fingers crossed this all ends with a horde of the slaaneshi mortals as seen in the underworlds warband.

The website also confirms that there is a 38 model battlebox coming for Daughters of Khaine which also includes a 40 page lore book on the events leading up to the battle.

The following tabs also seem to confirm there are 4 more boxes covering the other factions in the book, along with the contents (2 have quite a large model count and 2 are sets of 3 mounted models).

Perhaps these are the Christmas bundles for this year?

Aeneades wrote:
The website also confirms that there is a 38 model battlebox coming for Daughters of Khaine which also includes a 40 page lore book on the events leading up to the battle.

The following tabs also seem to confirm there are 4 more boxes covering the other factions in the book, along with the contents (2 have quite a large model count and 2 are sets of 3 mounted models).

Perhaps these are the Christmas bundles for this year?

Interesting that they didn't show these off yet but it looks like they are just smaller sets with the miniatures shown in the respective images not at all like the normal Battleforces so probably just additional to the Christmas Bundles (if there are Battleforcecs this year)

I wasn't paying enough attention when I looked at the website initially.

The 38 model battlebox looks like it's actually Daughters of Khaine vs Slaanesh.

Aeneades wrote:
I wasn't paying enough attention when I looked at the website initially.

The 38 model battlebox looks like it's actually Daughters of Khaine vs Slaanesh.

The battlebox is just the Shadows and Pain boxset we already know about

Carlovonsexron wrote:
Well, fingers crossed this all ends with a horde of the slaaneshi mortals as seen in the underworlds warband.

This is my hope as well. Perhaps the Broken Realms thingy is going to be akin to an AoS Psychic Awakening that ends with a new edition

New/Expanded rules are nice, but I cant see any games in my future until next year at least. So I hope the background is more substantial than 40k got in its "big event" book series. And its a shame that the only new models are a pair of characters locked inside a battle box. All that said I am super interested to see where this series is going.

 Marshal Loss wrote:

Carlovonsexron wrote:
Well, fingers crossed this all ends with a horde of the slaaneshi mortals as seen in the underworlds warband.

This is my hope as well. Perhaps the Broken Realms thingy is going to be akin to an AoS Psychic Awakening that ends with a new edition

Hopefully not; PA wasn't that good (IMO of course, but I don't think I'm in the minority) and 9th edition has a lot of great pieces but overall feels like a playtest rather than fully developed. I really hope 3rd takes after the polish and quality of the 2nd edition core rules rather than 9th 40k.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Marshal Loss wrote:

Carlovonsexron wrote:
Well, fingers crossed this all ends with a horde of the slaaneshi mortals as seen in the underworlds warband.

This is my hope as well. Perhaps the Broken Realms thingy is going to be akin to an AoS Psychic Awakening that ends with a new edition

Hopefully not; PA wasn't that good (IMO of course, but I don't think I'm in the minority) and 9th edition has a lot of great pieces but overall feels like a playtest rather than fully developed. I really hope 3rd takes after the polish and quality of the 2nd edition core rules rather than 9th 40k.

I'm not referencing the quality per se, just the format: a bunch of campaign books featuring lots of different factions without significant new model support that then leads into a new edition seems comparable to what is happening here

I suppose a big part of it is in how AoS is structured. When a 40k army got new stratagems, new relics, new psychic powers etc it was exactly that--the army benefitted as a whole. With AoS, new sub-factions and battalions (the main content mentioned so far) must be taken INSTEAD of the normal ones. It is a 'horizontal' expansion of options without a 'vertical' expansion of power (bar OP content but that's just a standard GW thing). Something else that has been mentioned is allegiances which are swapping on a bigger level; an entirely new set of army benefits. I am reasonably optimistic.

True, you can rebuild a new sub-army around new allegiances and abilities without it adding any change to the original armies. It does put a very heavy death-nail also in the whole "you must use official schemes for armies" in terms of painting.


That said Daughters of Khaine official schemes were all so close and similar that I'd recon most could never tell two official schemes apart!

So I wonder what that means for the AOS in general, I hope it means Sigmar finally gets his arse handed to him on a platter.

 Asherian Command wrote:
So I wonder what that means for the AOS in general, I hope it means Sigmar finally gets his arse handed to him on a platter.

Only one way to prevent that. *slams "Open another chamber" button*

In all seriousness, 3rd edition in summer '21 sounds pretty convincing. They could accompany each book with a battlebox like the Slaanesh/DoK one, each introducing one new hero.
I too hope 3rd will be a continuation of polishing the system without mayor changes instead of the crazy rules shuffling of 40k.

 Asherian Command wrote:
So I wonder what that means for the AOS in general, I hope it means Sigmar finally gets his arse handed to him on a platter.

Finally?

JSG wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
So I wonder what that means for the AOS in general, I hope it means Sigmar finally gets his arse handed to him on a platter.

Finally?

This ^

Dude's been taking heavy losses forever. He failed to save the Old World, which got destroyed. He got betrayed by his allies, Nagash, etc, which led to Chaos overwhelming the majority of realms. He had to hide and lock the few survivors in Azyr, while Chaos swept across the world. He also got tricked into yeeting his hammer into a portal, and lost Ghal Maraz for a really long time. And even though he has the Stormcast, they've got flaws which he hasn't been able to fix. Sigmar's got just as many losses and wins.

Yeah but until the game gets a better name he can still bite on it.

Carlovonsexron wrote:
Yeah but until the game gets a better name he can still bite on it.

Exactly

Give me more lore on the other races! hopefully Chaos also gets slapped

Interested whats in the book or if there will be new factions to release.

Do we have any hints of new races after the Giants? Or do we have almost every major warhammer AOS race? Or are we still missing a few?

 Asherian Command wrote:

Carlovonsexron wrote:
Yeah but until the game gets a better name he can still bite on it.

Exactly

Give me more lore on the other races! hopefully Chaos also gets slapped

Interested whats in the book or if there will be new factions to release.

Do we have any hints of new races after the Giants? Or do we have almost every major warhammer AOS race? Or are we still missing a few?

Lumineth are an incomplete army with the elements beside Earth missing.

Sky Grots have been mentioned in background multiple times.

Malerion and his elves.

We have artwork of late renaissance Italian looking Free Guild (though I think GW moved away from no model/no artwork some time ago).

A few Rumour Machine pics have been looking an awfully lot like Vampire Pirates or Scourge Privateers.

Last Rumour Machine pic looks like Be'lakor's wing, so maybe more Chaos?

 Hanskrampf wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:

Carlovonsexron wrote:
Yeah but until the game gets a better name he can still bite on it.

Exactly

Give me more lore on the other races! hopefully Chaos also gets slapped

Interested whats in the book or if there will be new factions to release.

Do we have any hints of new races after the Giants? Or do we have almost every major warhammer AOS race? Or are we still missing a few?

Lumineth are an incomplete army with the elements beside Earth missing.

Sky Grots have been mentioned in background multiple times.

Malerion and his elves.

We have artwork of late renaissance Italian looking Free Guild (though I think GW moved away from no model/no artwork some time ago).

A few Rumour Machine pics have been looking an awfully lot like Vampire Pirates or Scourge Privateerser

Not even mentioning all the things mentioned in the lumineth battle tome, Zenith Mages, River Warriors, Winged Elves and their associated special spirits. The entire Tyronic side and Teclian of the Lumineth, with three of their major core units including Vanari Rangers also not being represented, Chariots, Artillery, 'knights' which I assumed are dawnriders?, Diviners, Heralds, Sorcerers, and many other heroes and characters being hinted at in the lore but just not official yet, including an interesting wind fox spirit with a giant bow. Lumineth are hardly done and it seems they know what exactly to do with them. Which is making me hope for Lumineth Sword Masters, and Lumineth Dragons, which I think is going to be the Symbol of the Sun and the spirit of the Sun that Tyrion is probably bonded with. I am really really hoping Tyrion isn't dead. A proper warrior god would be really awesome.

But yeah free guilds and all that sound really interesting. Can't wait to see more of this type of stuff.

Chaos of course is missing a bunch, I wonder if they are going to chaos dwarves or something as a callback as they really don't have a mecha or

Of course all that lumineth　stuff is years　ahead so not relevant to asherian command's question.

Odds are no new battletomes until　aos3 in　summer　2021. Gw usually doesn't release codex/battletome right before new edition making it old fashioned right away

tneva82 wrote:
Of course all that lumineth　stuff is years　ahead so not relevant to asherian command's question.

Odds are no new battletomes until　aos3 in　summer　2021. Gw usually doesn't release codex/battletome right before new edition making it old fashioned right away

Of course, I am thinking that as well, with AOS being updated next year, hopefully. I wanted to hold off on getting really into the game as much.

So far it seems the Sons of Behemat might be the last 'new' faction? For a while?