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I've been doing a lot of math lately. First, all gratitude to the Dakka community for providing an endless stream of dead'ard lists that I would not have thought of, that I have to consider when creating a "not-stomp-all" tactically flexible, tactics-dependent list like this.

I welcome your "how I destroy this army" comments. I need to be able to consider a priori ways I could get stomped. I am also open to your experiences of what works and what doesn't in your v5 games.

Shas'El w/CIB (rendygun), AFP (big blast no coversv), Flamer, HWMT (Fire 2).
12 FCW w/Shas'el (Ld8), Bonded (rally below half)
12 FCW w/Shas'el, Bonded
12 FCW w/Shas'el, Bonded, inna Fish w/DPod (4+Sv outside 12" range) and Flechettes (spikybitz)
12 FCW w/Shas'el, Bonded, inna Fish w/DPod and Flechettes
10 Kroot
10 Kroot
3 Broadsides w/TLPR, bonded, 2 Shield Drones
3 Broadsides w/TLPR, bonded, 2 Shield Drones
RailHead w/Flechettes, DPod, MT (Fire as Fast), SMS (indirect Heavy4 S5)

Yes, there is redundancy in this list for dual-castle if needed. The Broadsides are being kept as cheap as possible. This list largely follows the First Rule of Tau:
Always Buy More Shots.

I am including the Flechettes because I expect the vehicles to get charged, and I want to make it cost something to do so.
I am including Bonding, oddly, because of KP rules. If this is a poor choice, I am open to hearing it.
TLPR + TLRG * 3 is big death. On just about everything.

The goal of this is to have a Gravity core with fungible elements and enough mobility to seize objectives. Kroot included for speedbump, opportune charges, and infiltrating deployment dickishness.

JTS

Edit: I have no idea how this handles Seer Councils. I'm at a loss, sadly. Zilla builds, Ork Hordes, and standard SM builds were mostly considered in constructing this list.

I assume the broadsides have multitrackers so they can fire the railguns and plasma guns at the same time.

Is it really worth the 60 points for higher AP, lower volume of shots in 5e? Everything has a cover save, even at 24 inches. Maybe not in rapid fire range though. I like the TLPR but I'm just not sure it's actually worth it in enough cases now.

Why are there 12 FW in each fish? Are they going to get out? Might you want to just put 6 in there and leave them in there and get more static firepower elsewhere (drones on static squads, or larger kroot squads)

Anyway, I like it, and have been considering similar in 5e.

Well, not sure how you can handle Nidzillas?
The same holds for a Landraider heavy force?

While its not a perfect solution, I imagine 7 railguns can do a number on Landraiders. Also you can use the Devilfish to run interferance against the landraiders your not shooting at to make them waste movement and range. This gives you time to work on only part of the force and not have to deal with the whole thing at one time.

I'm not sure if its changed but before it was always a bad idea to put the AFP on a BS 5 model. Kinda a waste.

I forget why because Im half asleep. Couldve changed with fifth.

Well you could argue that as a blast template it always hits something, so putting on a high BS model isn't that important. However reducing scatter distance by 4 or 5 can go a long way to keep the whole template on target and not allow for much deviation.

I rather like the list as a whole, I wonder if it might be a good idea to make one of those FW on foot squads have all pulse carbines. Move and shoot, getting a pinning chance in isn't so bad now that whole Marine armies aren't going to be LD10 all over the board.

Markerlights are awesome in fifth. Being able to reduce cover saves is huge, as well as upping BS. The ability for the pathfinders to take their mandatory devilfish, which can then be used to transport other fire warriors, means that their obligatory transport is much less of a waste now.

And don't forget the stealthsuits!

lambadomy wrote:I assume the broadsides have multitrackers so they can fire the railguns and plasma guns at the same time.
Is it really worth the 60 points for higher AP, lower volume of shots in 5e? Everything has a cover save, even at 24 inches. Maybe not in rapid fire range though. I like the TLPR but I'm just not sure it's actually worth it in enough cases now.

Yes, my bad. They all have MT. I have also struggled with the 60 points for TLPR, but I had to look at handling threat classes. That 60 points only buys me one Crisis suit, or almost a sniper squad, or 6 FCW. The Plasma Rifle shots can kill a LOT more points worth of enemy in short order than the equivalent in other units. I'm thinking the difference would be most noticeable when facing podded or outflanking armies, or units that hit my assault screens.

I think I need the shots also to handle FNP enemies and 2+Sv enemies.

At 23" vs MEq, assuming a 4+ coversave, the SMS kills 4/9 vs the TLPR's 5/16. I'm paying points to lose efficiency, amirite? I care more about a carload dropped off in front of my unit - where there is no cover for you, and I need to get you dead before the powerfist enters my units. At that range, the SMS is still adding only 4/9 but I'm killing 5/4 of just about anything with the TLPR. I need the kills there. But again, That could be 1 FCW standing with the Broadside for that 10 points, which rapidfiring brings the damage to 6/9. Meh.

Always Buy More Shots says save the points and take the SMS + more FCW or Stealth Suits or something. I think I'm going to try one of each unit for a while and see.

lambadomy wrote:Why are there 12 FW in each fish? Are they going to get out? Might you want to just put 6 in there and leave them in there and get more static firepower elsewhere (drones on static squads, or larger kroot squads)

You bet. They might start unmounted, depending on scenario and opponent. The thought of turning them into 2 6-man units and spending the extra 120 points on a unit of Stealth Suits is an interesting thought. I was trying to minimize KP, but adding bodies doesn't do much to add resiliency to Tau squads. I do plan on using the Fish to be able to drop a lot of Rapid Fire on a target, so keeping two big squads something I want.

wuestenfux wrote:Well, not sure how you can handle Nidzillas?
The same holds for a Landraider heavy force?

Nidzilla: against 3+Sv, each FCW squad gives a wound each turn. Against 2+ or 3+, the 6 Broadsides do quite a number on TMCs. At 24", that's 1W per turn per Broadside - 6W per turn. With an assault screen, I think I can put out enough fire between 3"-24" to take out a Nidzilla army from just the Broadsides as long as he obliges by approaching me (instead of just lurking in cover firing Barbed Stranglers at me.

Landraiders: Broadside TLRG = 5/24 to Immo or Destroy each turn. With 6 of those, I'm stopping 1 LR per turn, which I am okay with. Broadsides provide some good gravity to draw in assaults. Turn 2 charges suck, but they're a fact of life. Can you provide a "rock hard" 3 LR build that gets seen in GT play? I haven't seen any LR heavy builds besides Ard Boyz, and 2500 is a different kettle of fish.

Also,

Jayden63 wrote:While its not a perfect solution, I imagine 7 railguns can do a number on Landraiders. Also you can use the Devilfish to run interferance against the landraiders your not shooting at to make them waste movement and range. This gives you time to work on only part of the force and not have to deal with the whole thing at one time.

He's right. I can put those Fish in the way and thanks to how wide both they and the LRs are, that can block off over 12" of frontage. If he wants to dismount assault troops to charge the Fish, I'm okay with that. I just need to hold them back to give myself more shooting time.

GMMStudios wrote:I'm not sure if its changed but before it was always a bad idea to put the AFP on a BS 5 model. Kinda a waste.

If I ran another Crisis suit, I could put it there. But (a) the Shas'el is BS4, and (b) I'm not running any other Crisis suits.

Jayden63 wrote:I rather like the list as a whole, I wonder if it might be a good idea to make one of those FW on foot squads have all pulse carbines. Move and shoot, getting a pinning chance in isn't so bad now that whole Marine armies aren't going to be LD10 all over the board.

Apparently I need to read the advance copies of Codex:SM. Or find the rumor thread. Thanks...

whitedragon wrote:Markerlights are awesome in fifth. Being able to reduce cover saves is huge, as well as upping BS. The ability for the pathfinders to take their mandatory devilfish, which can then be used to transport other fire warriors, means that their obligatory transport is much less of a waste now. And don't forget the stealthsuits!

Not forgetting the Stealthsuits... nor the Finders. But for 96 points and a unit I can't protect, I don't think they'll survive long enough to be a useful force multiplier. I think Sniper units or Marker Drones on Stealth Suits are more protected and reliable markerlight providers.