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I won a chunk of Nids from a tourny and I was trying to gather info on how to build a strong list in 5th ed. I want something that can shoot and fight.

What are the current thoughts on 5th ed Tryannids???

Hive Tyrants with tyrant guard - The retinue is a much stronger concept in 5th ed and the powerfist has been a little bit nerfed. With a bunch of lash whips this squad seems nearly invulnerable in hth, plus the running rule adds a lot of speed to a very dangerous synapse unit. Does make sense to run two of these squads, or is the Flyrant still a necessity?

Also what the best build for a 5th ed Flyrant vs the Tyrant with the guard. IS the one with guard now just a hth monster?

Warriors - I think death spitters in massive amounts becomes and interesting option now.

Dakka Fex - Twin linked devourer and enhanced senses are still great
Strangle Fex - Brabed Strangler, scything talons

Both same points, I'm really torn about which one is better.

Troops
So what's the build for troops. Are they a larger part of your army now? Or do they still pay second fiddle to the the monstrous creatures???

Genestealers - Do you give them feeder tendrils? Scuttlers? Extended Carapace? Or run them Naked?

What's the best hormaguant build now?

Now that rippers are not scoring, does it not make it worth their points.

10 without number termagants seems like a no brainer, are most people in agreement with this?

What are the thoughts of Ravengers? Granted they can't have frags, but deepstirke always begin available is helpful.

Finally, What's the new build for hvy shooty fexes??? OR are Zoats or Warriors the stronger choice now?

I can't speak for the 'nid community...but here's my observations:

Tyrant Guard vs. Flyrant: I like to have one of each...but don't discount the Broodlord either. Infiltrating/outflanking is not to be overlooked.

I prefer to make both Tyrants hth-oriented, the flyrant can use his mobility to pick off troublesome units (such as heavy weapons squads) while the one with guard will be running too often to be using weapons anyway.

Warriors with Deathspitters: Good, but not survivable enough for my tastes. A decent round of bolters disposes of them too quickly

Dakkafex vs. Stranglefex. Both good, depends on the army you're facing imo.

Troops are WAY more important now. In scenario-based missions....Nidzilla is a thing of the past. Not that it doesn't kill things properly, but it just can't score points on objectives.

Genestealers - Feeder tendrils all the way. I'll never run a unit without them unless it's acting as a 'screen' for more expensive, souped-up 'stealers. Scuttlers are nice, but not "automatic". Extended Carapace is a necessity for me, but I know others who feel differently.

Hormagaunts are just too expensive to be useful for me. You can soup up a regular gaunt and make it way more useful for the same price if you really want to.

The only time I use rippers is to tie up a unit in hth, but most of the time it's just not worth the points.

Raveners. I haven't tried an all-mobile army with gargs and the like....that could be pretty useful possibly. Otherwise, just too expensive for me.

I minimalize my shootyfexes....just the BS skill and a VC + BS. In the armies where I run them, I sink my points into my 'stealers instead.

Zoanthropes are a necessity imo. They're the only thing that can take out vehicles with high AV...since most of them can outrun fexes.

I'm not the most experienced nid player, but here's my thoughts.

Hive Tyrants work well either way, I'm not sure what the perfect build is, but I tend to go minimalist (Toxic Miasma and 2 scything talons).

Deathspitters are a great weapon to give your warriors. They're cheap, but the problem is that they take up a force org slot, and as stated, are very easy to gun down unless you make them far too expensive. And don't expect them to be *too* accurate.

I feel the Dakkafex isn't worth the points, but Pienifexes totally are, especially since you don't need that BS 3 anymore.

Feeder Tendrils are the only must on genestealers, IMO, if they're not getting a 4+ cover save from gaunts you're doing it wrong. However I don't feel stealers are nearly as strong in the current environment with the Rending nerf. To be fair, my rending luck has been crap on toast, but I'm taking a lot less stealers than I used to.

Hormagaunts are too mobile to be worthwhile, an objective holder that feels wasted not holding an objective is a crappy objective holder. I'm building my hormies as spinegaunts.

Rippers aren't worth it. Period. Take stealers or gaunts instead.

Without Number is a really solid choice, but I recommend against taking it on every gaunt unit, since it's a strong discouragement from your opponent shooting at them. I prefer a couple small units of without number gaunts and one big unit of cheaper, permanently dying gaunts to give my opponents something to shoot at and feel like they accomplished something, while my respawning gaunts take objectives.

Raveners aren't bad, but aren't incredible. I don't use them 'cause they're not worth $15 a model. If you do, don't give them a ranged weapon, to take advantage of fleet.

Zoanthropes are godsends, in many ways a single one is superior to similar points worth of warriors. Not sure what the best build for a shootyfex is, but I will say I generally don't care for them in the new environment.

EDIT: IGNORE THIS

dont ever make a CC flyrant lol, look at it mathimatically:

Flyrant with 2 TL DV = 12 shots with re roll wounds and hits, thats gonna kill, then you still have 4 attacks on charge.

With 2 sets of sy tals you give him 6 attacks on charge...whoopty doo lol

Why are your Deathspitter Warriors getting gunned down so easily? Are you not screening them with gaunts? T4, 2W, 4+ cover, and eternal warrior seems pretty reasonable on a 25ish pt. model.

I definately agree regarding Without Number. Two 10 man squads of Termagaunts with Without Number.

After that, everything is good. Rippers can Run, now. Genestealers still Scuttle even if they are not as good as they once were. Warriors and even Zoanathropes and Tyrant Guard (I believe) get a cover save from Gaunts.

As for Feeder Tendrils, if you really want Genestealers that badly consider taking a Broodlord.

113 gets you a dual purpose fex... strangler and a set of talons... not bad for an elite choice.
You need to get it through an orks head you are the horde army and stranglers make your hoard bigger than his fast.
Give them 2+ save, T7 and W5 and they are pricey but nothing beats dropping 5 S8 blast templates onto your opponent every turn and then having 3 or 4 S9 monstrous close combat attacks if they let you live. WS2? Who cares? You are dropping scattering templates. They hit 1/3 of the time and otherwise scatter an average of 5" if you feel an average 4" scatter is worth it, burn the points.

Zoanthropes nice but not absolutely necessary.

Scuttling... no one likes a scuttling bug starting a game 12" away from them and you will see that alot in the 5th ed deployments.

Scuttling = outflanking... outflanking genestealers are still a pain just by the fact your opponent has to be leary of both short board edges.

WoN... you need troops to survive to control objectives... No tyrannid troop really survives so good to have a couple to throw away and then bring them back in to control an objective or two is priceless.

Raveners... cool but pricey. Useful harassers but never tried them enmass. I like devourer and claws... 6 S3 reroll wound shots and enough lethal HTH to be dangerous to face.

Lictors... this is style, I like them. Feeder tendrils, rerolls for your reinforcements and nice harassing beasties... Just don't look for them to do it on their own.


Hive Tyrants... I believe in the infiltrating brood lord and lots of tyrannid warriors but that is personal taste.

Rosicrucian wrote:Why are your Deathspitter Warriors getting gunned down so easily? Are you not screening them with gaunts? T4, 2W, 4+ cover, and eternal warrior seems pretty reasonable on a 25ish pt. model.

It's difficult to screen a unit against all firepower, and even with a 4+ cover save, T4, 2W and a 5+/4+ cover isn't that tough. Also, let's talk about how giving everything a 4+ cover save vs deathspitters makes them significantly less fun...

Great. Advice Thanks guys.

So what are people using mostly to tank hunt? HTH?

Also, with the higher reliance on troops what are you guys running from a percentage stand point?

~50/50 troops to big bugs? (at 1850)

Norm around 1850.
1 x Broodlord + 6-8 genestealers (talons, ext Carap)
2 x 5 Tyrannid Warriors (4 spitters, 1 stangler)
1 x 2 Lictors
2 x 16 Spinegaunts( S, Spine, WON)
2 x stranglefex
3 x 1 ravener or 1 x 3

The rest in scuttling genestealers.

This was my 4th ed layout but now I am tempted to add more fexes and warriors.
I pumped both stranglefexes so I think I could almost afford a 3rd one if I back off on
all the biomorphes I used to put on.

How do you guys run your genestealers?

Just scuttlers and feeder tendrils? Or do you also give them flesh hooks.

General rule is more bugs over better bugs.

I'm back and forth between Acid Maw and Extended Carapace.

Tacobake wrote:I definately agree regarding Without Number. Two 10 man squads of Termagaunts with Without Number.

After that, everything is good. Rippers can Run, now. Genestealers still Scuttle even if they are not as good as they once were. Warriors and even Zoanathropes and Tyrant Guard (I believe) get a cover save from Gaunts.

As for Feeder Tendrils, if you really want Genestealers that badly consider taking a Broodlord.

Yep, Tyrants with Tyrant guard count as a normal unit with an upgraded character. Meaning as long as least part of the thier body is blocked from LOS, you get your cover save. Also means that the unit gets cover from area terrain (majority rules of course). Tyrant guard and warriors are tall enough that positioned properly thay can also grant cover to your carnies.

I usually run 2 units of Dakka Tyrants w/ Lash Whip Guard. 2-5 man units of TL-DS warriors. 2 Sniper fexes. 1 units of WoN guants. The rest Genstealers w/ EC and feeders.

I usually spend the extra points to TL the DS on my warriors cause it effectively doubles thier accuracy. With TL I found them to be deadly accurate with only 1 in 5 entirely missing the target. The AP and cover saves are not a big factor as I am trying to simply increase the wound count and I typically average 26 wounds (not kills) on the first round of shooting between both units. At a 30" threat range, they make an effective first salvo. Mech is a bit harder, but I have been successful in popping the rhinos early on in previous games. Between being screened by either guard or guants in the front and gun fexes in the back, there haven't been too many instances of my warriors being denied thier cover save. I have found that when properly supported by other units like gun fexes and stealers, they hold up allright.

Pdeflorio wrote:I won a chunk of Nids from a tourny and I was trying to gather info on how to build a strong list in 5th ed. I want something that can shoot and fight.

I am going for the same basic idea (shooty/assault mix)

What are the current thoughts on 5th ed Tryannids???

Horde got a bit worse due to no retreat. Run helped close combat oriented big stuff. TMCs were hurt by LOS changes (harder to gain cover save, really hard to hide from shooting). Objective oriented missions will be problematic and some units are a liability due to KPs.

Hive Tyrants with tyrant guard - The retinue is a much stronger concept in 5th ed and the powerfist has been a little bit nerfed. With a bunch of lash whips this squad seems nearly invulnerable in hth, plus the running rule adds a lot of speed to a very dangerous synapse unit. Does make sense to run two of these squads, or is the Flyrant still a necessity?

A list built around speed (hormagaunts) should have a flyrant, otherwise the walking tyrant with guard is superior. You just can't duck and weave the flyrant due to area terrain changes, nor can he reliably keep himself in assault. Don't discount the broodlord -- run and outflank breathes some life into him and his squad is the only way to get feeder tendrils and acid maw in the same unit. Both re-rolls with rending is utterly devestating against the really tough units (terminators, MCs, etc).

Also what the best build for a 5th ed Flyrant vs the Tyrant with the guard. IS the one with guard now just a hth monster?

Flyrant is still the same, although taking warp field is mandatory now -- basically go big with him or don't bother. Tyrant w/ guard -- I still prefer shooty version but a few HtH oriented options are not bad to add.

Warriors - I think death spitters in massive amounts becomes and interesting option now.

Yes, have seen them do pretty well. Also close combat variety are a bit more viable, especially in combination with gaunts and feeder stealers. I see them as mandatory now if you are using gaunts. Zoanthorpes just don't cut it anymore due to their rediculous size IMHO and just relying on tyrants is not wise.

Dakka Fex - Twin linked devourer and enhanced senses are still great
Strangle Fex - Brabed Strangler, scything talons

Both same points, I'm really torn about which one is better.

I prefer the Strangler -- looks better by far. Has better range. Has more utility in anti-tank. Still decent anti-troop. Not as gimped inassault (and easier to keep out of it with range if needed). Don't forget the ninja-fex (2x talons, miasma. +WS) -- which is now the best anti-tank unit the tyranids have .

Troops
So what's the build for troops. Are they a larger part of your army now? Or do they still pay second fiddle to the the monstrous creatures???

I think beefing them up a bit is the way to go but the swarming horde is really gimped IMHO.

Genestealers - Do you give them feeder tendrils? Scuttlers? Extended Carapace? Or run them Naked?

naked stealers imho are fodder but YMMV. They are just too easy to thin on the way, thin in CC or kill off after they wipe their first target. Stealers have to do alot of the scoring as well, so I much prefer carapace, and feeder trendrils help not only them but the whole army. Scuttlers is a personal choice and should be taken in relation to the rest of the army. I like it myself and go with the 24 point variety with all 3.

What's the best hormaguant build now?

The one built to look nice in a display case? Joking aisde I think point for point they just don't have the umph needed to get the job done IMHO. If you go for a list built around them, then they can be viable but I don't think that is what you are going for. If you do take em, I think the uber gaunt is the way to go, otherwise they are just speedy gaunst that will still lose models to no retreat more often then not. YMMV.

Now that rippers are not scoring, does it not make it worth their points.

They were nigh pointless in 4ed since gaunts did what they do better. I think 5ed made them worse.

10 without number termagants seems like a no brainer, are most people in agreement with this?

Solid, but need enough synapse to make them worth the trouble

What are the thoughts of Ravengers? Granted they can't have frags, but deepstirke always begin available is helpful.

I don't like them but could prove usefull combined with a flyrant or maybe as a shooty platform behind a screen of gaunts. 5ed just really did a number on them and I think you are better off investing in troop choices or support for them (warriors, etc).

Finally, What's the new build for hvy shooty fexes??? OR are Zoats or Warriors the stronger choice now?

Warriors cannot compete with hvy fex for strnegth of shots. Zoanthorpes are stupid big (taller then carnifexes!) and bleed KPs I still like ye olde gunfex -- a tank not shooting early game gives time for the other stuff to get in and tear it up and nothing does that better then a VC/BS carnifex.

What warriors have going for them is ease of cover save and providing synapse. I see them as providing the auxillery synapse that zonathorpes used to provide in 4ed and at the same time giving solid anti-troop shooting.

So what are people using mostly to tank hunt? HTH?

For stuff with rear armor 10, neutralize w/ gunfexes till the stealers and TMCs can jump on em. For LRs, TMCs are your only viable option. Zoanthorpes are for the gamblers.

Also, with the higher reliance on troops what are you guys running from a percentage stand point?

I wouldn't think in terms of %, more like resilience versus ability of the army to gut the opponents troops. I have a very heavy % in troops due to using lotsa 24 point stealers. Doesn't have to be that way though. Nidzilla can still get it done, they just have to be more protective of the troops.

How do you guys run your genestealers?

Just scuttlers and feeder tendrils? Or do you also give them flesh hooks.

Can't have both feeders and flesh hooks (both are mouth upgrades). I go with feeders, adds to the whole army, not just the stealers. The hooks are certainly something to consider though, especially for non-carapace stealers.

HTH

Flyrant is still the same, although taking warp field is mandatory now -- basically go big with him or don't bother. Tyrant w/ guard -- I still prefer shooty version but a few HtH oriented options are not bad to add.

I concur. The Flyrant no matter how you cut it is going to take some double tap love and even lucky str 4 attacks can annoyingly stack up. Invest in the over-priced (IMO) but neccessary 2+ save. At the moment, I prefer the dakka tyrant w/guard (fits my play style better) and splurg for the implant attack so I can kill off those pesky IC.

I prefer the Strangler -- looks better by far. Has better range. Has more utility in anti-tank. Still decent anti-troop. Not as gimped inassault (and easier to keep out of it with range if needed). Don't forget the ninja-fex (2x talons, miasma. +WS) -- which is now the best anti-tank unit the tyranids have .

Got a point on the range. Still pretty gimped though in CC IMO. As elite OK, but as heavies... give the fex another gun and let him shoot . Otherwise, go with the ninja fex and run.

I think beefing them up a bit is the way to go but the swarming horde is really gimped IMHO.

I concur

naked stealers imho are fodder but YMMV. They are just too easy to thin on the way, thin in CC or kill off after they wipe their first target. Stealers have to do alot of the scoring as well, so I much prefer carapace, and feeder trendrils help not only them but the whole army.

Amen

What's the best hormaguant build now? The one built to look nice in a display case.

A second Amen

Zoanthorpes are stupid big (taller then carnifexes!) and bleed KPs I still like ye olde gunfex -- a tank not shooting early game gives time for the other stuff to get in and tear it up and nothing does that better then a VC/BS carnifex.

Preach Brother Preach

For stuff with rear armor 10, neutralize w/ gunfexes till the stealers and TMCs can jump on em. For LRs, TMCs are your only viable option. Zoanthorpes are for the gamblers.

Hallelujah!

I think Hormies are dead useful as a screening unit. Where opponents may ignore the regular guants, the psychological value of 20+ leaping gaunts geared for assault (even though they really aren't shhh) isn't easy to pass up. Plus after the Hormies soak up the fire, your genestealers/warriors roll in.

I give my Hormies toxin sacs, that way, when they die, they can at least die with a fighting chance at actually wounding something + can last ditch attack on a tank that I can't get out of the way (rear armour 10 ftw).

Points sink? Probably, but it's fluffy.

Hormies are a horrible point sink. 10 points each without upgrades, 12 with Sacs, and they're still I4, T3, WS4. A Genestealer is 16, 17 with Tendrils. Add in three more points for Scuttling and you have an amazing unit. If Hormagaunts were, say, 7 points base, they would have a place in lists as high-speed tarpit units. To make them do anything but die to MEqs in your round of assault, they need to be geared way too closely to Genestealer prices. They are amazingly fun to bring against frail Gunline armies like IG and Tau, though, especially with the Sacs upgrade. Locks up their guns quickly and decimates them in assault. Granted, so do Scuttling Genestealers, assuming your opponent forgets about them and deploys near the sidelines.

For regular Gaunts I never give them anything but Spinefists. Yes, Fleshborers are a slightly better gun and only 1 point each, but given the numbers people tend to bring Gaunts in, it adds up quickly. Without Number is amazingly useful in objective based games when you can just keep respawning onto a nearby objective. In kill point missions, however, you might want to opt for them not to return to the field after giving up a point.

For Stealers I don't bother with Carapace because 4+ cover saves are abound in 5th Ed, and for the same points I can have tendrils and scout movement. Scuttling keeps your Genestealers off of the board during those first crucial rounds of open firing lanes and many people still leave valuable units or tanks near table edges. Add in a Lictor and you can almost guarantee them to come in on the turn you want them to, either re-rolling to come on or re-rolling in an attempt to keep them off the board for another round.

As far as Dakka vs. Stranglerfex... depends on what you're fighting. Hordes and Tanks, that Strangler is great. Marines, other MCs, Dakkafex wins this one. With Run capabilities nowadays, the Dakkafex isn't wasting two turns just to get into range, just the first one.

There's nothing wrong with the Zoanthrope's height unless you're just trying to hide him from Line of Sight and there's nothing tall and skinny around. He's not a Monstrous Creature so he doesn't need 50% coverage to considered in cover. I wouldn't bring one to a Zilla list, but Zoeys have their uses in a number of ways, like slingshotting Gaunts onto an objective, or turning those 2+ cover save Gaunts from Lurking to scoring in the last round. Heck, if the height bothers you that much, clip off that tentacle-looking object he's standing on (floating over, supposedly) to drop it an inch or so.

Kirbinator wrote:For Stealers I don't bother with Carapace because 4+ cover saves are abound in 5th Ed, and for the same points I can have tendrils and scout movement. Scuttling keeps your Genestealers off of the board during those first crucial rounds of open firing lanes and many people still leave valuable units or tanks near table edges. Add in a Lictor and you can almost guarantee them to come in on the turn you want them to, either re-rolling to come on or re-rolling in an attempt to keep them off the board for another round.

I disagree, IMO EC has a number of benefits.

You don't get the cover save in assault and 5+ armour is just too paper thin. Thanks to rending nerf, wound consolidation, counter assault, ect. genestaelers are taking more armour saves in close combat than in 4rth.

Can't consolidate in CC means higher frequency of being left in the open during you opponents shooting phase

Transports got buffed with passengers no longer being auto pinned. That means if your genstealers go to pop a transport, they are stuck in the open with passengers ready to open up.

Popping tanks can also find you out in the open with the added bonus of an explosion causing wounds to nearby stealers

Increasing number of weapons in 5th that deny cover saves but for which you can still take a 4+ armour save

I'd add to the fox's list that cover saves are harder to come by when coming in from outflank. Non scuttlers behind gaunts can get away with the 5+ but I still think it is debatable.

I played a stealer shock list with my marines awhile back. He didn't take EC and I had little trouble picking his units apart. Cover may abound but there are still opens spots a unit will have to pop put of or times whne they are left stranded after a combat. It was only one game but proved to me the value of the EC.

There's nothing wrong with the Zoanthrope's height unless you're just trying to hide him from Line of Sight and there's nothing tall and skinny around.

You really need to hide at least one to make your suggestion below work. No worthy opponent is gonna let a zoathorpe they can see baby sit a linchpin gaunt unit, cover save or no.

Zoeys have their uses in a number of ways, like slingshotting Gaunts onto an objective, or turning those 2+ cover save Gaunts from Lurking to scoring in the last round.

They have uses, I just think the other synapse creatures are better at it. YMMV

Baal of Chaos wrote:dont ever make a CC flyrant lol, look at it mathimatically:

Flyrant with 2 TL DV = 12 shots with re roll wounds and hits, thats gonna kill, then you still have 4 attacks on charge.

With 2 sets of sy tals you give him 6 attacks on charge...whoopty doo lol

If 40k were all math, it would be quite a boring game. I do not necessarily agree with your approach. Breaking a unit with shooting is more difficult than in 4th ed. Breaking a unit in CC is much easier. Shooting at marines, your 12 TL shots are going to score 8 hits, probably 8 wounds, which amounts to two dead marines. Congrats. The marines aren't breaking from that.

Now you charge and kill a couple more. And maybe their pfist puts a wound on you, and they don't break and combat continues and you're stuck in it for a while with 3 attacks each round, staring down a powerfist.

Whereas, the scytal tyrant is getting his extra 2 attacks in combat, which counts against combat resolution. And, he's getting his extra two attacks in subsequent rounds also, getting him back out of that combat a lot sooner.

Consider hitting something that can be swept. Those extra two attacks (probably yielding at least one extra kill) go directly against the combat resolution, forcing your opponent to take Ld tests at lower and lower numbers. And, with a high-initiative monster like a hive tyrant, breaking your opponent in combat and sweeping them yields considerably faster results than shooting at them turn after turn.

Then there's the head-to-head matchup to consider. I'll go out on a limb and say that the tyrant with 2 extra CC attacks will win the majority of the time against the one with the 12 devourer shots prior to combat, especially if he's got warp field (we all take that on our flyrants, right?). As soon as you're able to shoot your devourers at me, I can be assured of charging you the next turn, and my 6 attacks are going to be trumping your 3 attacks until one of us (most likely you) dies.

It's not all about how many models you kill, it's also about how you kill them (CC kills are worth more than shooting kills) and what kind of model you're killing.

Redbeard wrote: If 40k were all math, it would be quite a boring game. I do not necessarily agree with your approach. Breaking a unit with shooting is more difficult than in 4th ed. Breaking a unit in CC is much easier. Shooting at marines, your 12 TL shots are going to score 8 hits, probably 8 wounds, which amounts to two dead marines. Congrats. The marines aren't breaking from that

Actually it is 12 shots with 89% chance of hitting because of TL = 10.7 hits with a 89% chance of wounding MEC = 9.5 wounds = 3 dead MEC. However with a 24" threat range, you are probably going to get 2 rounds of shooting before CC even becomes and option (assuming the SM player wants to be in combat ala combat tactics). Plus the chance bonus of sniping off his PF/special weapon characters due to wound allocation.

But your point about them not breaking from shooting is valid...then again for SM breaking can be an advantage if it means denying a CC assault from a Tyrant.

A bonus for the walking tyrant is he can take tyrant guard which increases his ability to get cover saves and makes him (the unit) more resilliant to return rate of fire due to increase wound count.

Then there's the head-to-head matchup to consider. I'll go out on a limb and say that the tyrant with 2 extra CC attacks will win the majority of the time against the one with the 12 devourer shots prior to combat, especially if he's got warp field (we all take that on our flyrants, right?). As soon as you're able to shoot your devourers at me, I can be assured of charging you the next turn, and my 6 attacks are going to be trumping your 3 attacks until one of us (most likely you) dies.

Again, you should take into account the presence of Tyrant Guard equiped with Lash Whips, which will be tying up two of your Flyants attacks and increasing the available wounds to the walking dakka tyrant. In this case it is a much closer matchup IMO.

winterman wrote:

Zoeys have their uses in a number of ways, like slingshotting Gaunts onto an objective, or turning those 2+ cover save Gaunts from Lurking to scoring in the last round.

They have uses, I just think the other synapse creatures are better at it. YMMV

OK as much as I dislike Zoeys, I have been toying with the idea of adding 2 Zoeys with psychic scream that would sit behind my two units of Dakka Tyrant w/ LW Guard (who would be out in front of my warriors and flanked by my genestealers). That way if someone tried to assualt my tyrants the horror check would be at -4 (psychic scream on Tyrants as well). Might be descent protection when going up against assault terminators loaded in LRs who would be gunning for my gun lines? Still Zoeys are expensive, KP crazy and I really dislike Zoeys .

fox, try them in a game
i dropped my monster fex to try ot 3 thropes.

ended up kiling: 3 leman russ's, 2 chimeras and loads of guard.
thir tank killing ability seems endless.

and still had 2 at the end of the game

Nooooo...STOP tempting me to the DARK SIDE

thir tank killing ability seems endless.

That or your luck