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There is an obvious difference in what you can field in a 500-750 pt army when compared to a 1500-2000pt army...

what I am asking is....

Are there any special army building techniques for building low point armies?

some other question are for the average tournament setting..

How necessary is anti-horde weapons? [blast and flamer template producing weapons]

How necessary is anti-vehicle weapons? [high strength and penetration weapons]

Are vehicles worth the huge amount of points they soak up?

Ok...so basically low point armies are either cores of bigger armies, combat patrols, or little tourney lists. 500-700pts would be tourney lists. This isn't anything official, but IMHO small tourney lists should be fairly balanced.
Anti-horde weapons are pretty useful, but not necessary. But still, at such a low cost (5pts for SM and CSM armies) Flamers are one of the most useful thingsyou can have.
And what about anti-tank guns? A lascannon or two will always help, though a fast vehicle army will be able to kill that lonely lascannoner in seconds. Not only that, I would keep the heavy tanks away untill 1Kpts, which means the Lascannoner will be useless. And why would I save the big stuff for bigger battles? Because a Vindi taks away a 1/4 of your precious 500pts. I'd rather take a Chaplain, 2-3 tacticals squad in rhinos and a few land speeders/bikes or a Devastator squad. Plainly because it allows you to maneovre, take some heavier stuff (plasmas, meltas, the eventual lascannon) and be able to run away. And don't even try to run "poor man's heavies" - beefed up Rhinos/Razorbacks. Just don't.

So, to sum up:
- There's no actual army building techniques that I know of.
- Anti-horde weapons are cheap and can be used not only as "anti-horde weapons"
- Anti-heavy tank = no(t really), anti-fast vehicles = very big YES in red, bold, underlined letters font size 72.
- Heavies: no. Fast Vehicles: Yes. Transpors: yes.

This is really an interesting question. I would love to hear what people have to say about.

As I see it, at this point level people cannot have a lot of expensive options. And if they do, they will lack of other necessary things.

I firmly believe that what you should do is try to find some strength in your army and maximizing it. Your adversary wont have a lot of resources to deal with it, and then you´ll crush him.

You can make something balanced, but at this level, if you go balanced, you cannot deal with a lot of threats.

Examples of which kind of armies should be terrific at low points level, would be 2 or 1 Heavy armour Vehicles (AV14), Cheap MC and minimum troops, or a small horde.

So my general advice is find something really hard to deal with in your army and maximize it.

Captain:100
sniper Scout squad:75
sniper Scout squad:75
Landraider redeemer:240
Landraidercrusader:265

Nobody is taking lascannons at this level. Have your snipers take out any meltagun squads. they are now sitting ducks.

This kind of list is what I´m talking about. I would take two redeemers, two crusaders or two normal LR, but that´s the spirit

Terminator Captain 140

2 ten man tactical squads with flamers, power weapon sarges and Rhinos -450

Very straight forward army here. If an objective based mission split squads and use one or two squads to stake out objectives then send out the captain and what's left as an attack force to take and hold the third. Most missions I have seen have five objectives at the most. If it's annihilation just send out everything and use bolter fire, the flamers, and the captains assets to wipe out 500 points on the other side.

Substitutions: adjust the tactical squad weapons layout with heavy bolters or missle launchers as needed based on opponents layout.

Edit: always meant to break the squads into combat squads, just didn't write it correctly.

Mobility with nastiness. For example, for Chaos SM start with 4 Obliterators-they can deep strike in and flame hordes or Multimelta the landraiders.

SM-librarian with infinity gate and a tooled up Sternguard squad.

SM might actually be able to do a mini-razorback rush even at this level....

Mr.Tibbles wrote:Captain:100
sniper Scout squad:75
sniper Scout squad:75
Landraider redeemer:240
Landraidercrusader:265

Nobody is taking lascannons at this level. Have your snipers take out any meltagun squads. they are now sitting ducks.

Lascannons? No, Demolition charges? YES! I just posted a 500pt Guard Demo-corps list here:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/220696.page

Then I found this list.

Maximise an aspect of the army that will deal with anything the opponent can throw at you. Hoard forces aren't worth it at this level. Yes you could churn out 60-90 guys if you do it right, however, most people will be packing flamers, large blasts and enough specialist firepower or tricks to counter this obvious move at this level. Pick an aspect, make sure you can deal with the heaviest armour out there, as people will take LR's if the group you are playing amongst are power gamers. Otherwise, the best way is to judge what your group is aiming for in the game and build accordingly, ie, don't spam LR's if you're looking to keep your friends and have an enjoyable game; if your opponents are power gaming, then powergame back. Simple.

Are demo charges meltabombs?

load up on the cheese!

Mr.Tibbles wrote:Are demo charges meltabombs?

Heck No!

Demolition charges are a one shot thrown demolisher Cannon Shell with a range of 6 inches, use Models BS to hit under last edition of rules, always scattered 2D6"'s otherwise. 5th ed blast rules makes these fun still. So, in short the list is packing 7 strength 10, AP 2, Ordance Blasts, all deep struck straight on top of whatever you want to crack. That Land Raider list you suggested Mr Tibbles goes to about 750 pts, at which point, to go with the theme my Demo Charge force would get 2 indirect firing Earthshaker Tanks, so 2 str 8 AP 3 Ordnace artillery pieces a turn, lol.

that there is a 2/9 chance of penetrating

Not including the possibility of a scatter still staying on target

Shrike78 wrote:that there is a 2/9 chance of penetrating

Not including the possibility of a scatter still staying on target

What are your stats based on, penetrating what?

7 ordnance blasts at such high strength and AP at 500pts is pretty intense and solid, all things considered against what you'll be facing, good for all facets of the game, anti-hoard, anti-tank, anti-terminators. Whether your own guy gets blown up or not is besides the point, that's just hilarious, and nice to see 5 of them have had a mishap before what with the bionics and all, lol.

So to sum up what was said so far...

The bane of the low point armies is the fast attack choice, because a typical army does not have the points to spend on the heavy cannons that would blow these guys in one shot.

Another potential worry is the dreaded gammer who squeezes in a LR because most armies at that low point cost can only afford a few units that can threaten it (and the ones that can threaten it, are overpriced overkill for the other units that they must face...)

Anti-fast attack is a must, and expect to see a lot of anti-infantry units and weapons...

Auretious Taak wrote:

Mr.Tibbles wrote:Are demo charges meltabombs?

Heck No!

Demolition charges are a one shot thrown demolisher Cannon Shell with a range of 6 inches, use Models BS to hit under last edition of rules, always scattered 2D6"'s otherwise. 5th ed blast rules makes these fun still. So, in short the list is packing 7 strength 10, AP 2, Ordance Blasts, all deep struck straight on top of whatever you want to crack. That Land Raider list you suggested Mr Tibbles goes to about 750 pts, at which point, to go with the theme my Demo Charge force would get 2 indirect firing Earthshaker Tanks, so 2 str 8 AP 3 Ordnace artillery pieces a turn, lol.

Unless the scatter stays on my raider, it cannot glance, 5,(seven halved) plus six is eleven, below AV 14. 7, Plus six is thirteen, still no enought to glance a raider.
Enjoy getting Redeemed.

Mr.Tibbles wrote:

Auretious Taak wrote:

Mr.Tibbles wrote:Are demo charges meltabombs?

Heck No!

Demolition charges are a one shot thrown demolisher Cannon Shell with a range of 6 inches, use Models BS to hit under last edition of rules, always scattered 2D6"'s otherwise. 5th ed blast rules makes these fun still. So, in short the list is packing 7 strength 10, AP 2, Ordance Blasts, all deep struck straight on top of whatever you want to crack. That Land Raider list you suggested Mr Tibbles goes to about 750 pts, at which point, to go with the theme my Demo Charge force would get 2 indirect firing Earthshaker Tanks, so 2 str 8 AP 3 Ordnace artillery pieces a turn, lol.

Unless the scatter stays on my raider, it cannot glance, 5,(seven halved) plus six is eleven, below AV 14. 7, Plus six is thirteen, still no enought to glance a raider.
Enjoy getting Redeemed.

Simple solution:

Drop the power weapons/bionics on the 5 Last Chancers with Demo charges.

Upgrade remaining lat chancers who can to have meltaguns, throw in one or two extra last chancers with emltaguns and drop them as a team of meltagun/demo-charge per DS unit. Now we can deal with that armour 14 alot easier.

A guardsman within melta range is a dead guardsman.

We usualy have a limit on 33 in total AV in 500-750 point games and a limit of no more than 2 wounds.

As a Tyranid player, even a small points army of mine can have a stupid number of units.

In small games I build to overwhelm in close combat, with a minimal amount of guns. The guns I do have I go for quantity over quality (devourers) as playing the odds works pretty well in small games.